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      07-02-2020, 12:43 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmahh View Post
^ That's like saying Bluetooth is Bluetooth or WiFi is WiFi. You know that's not true. At any rate, Digital Keys use NFC yes, but it is not just an NFC reader. Read the consortium's info posted on previous pages. There's digital 1.0 - 3.0 now. Additionally, let us not forget Apple may only support 2.0 or 3.0, and if our cars have 1.0, it's not BMW's fault.
Truth is none of us know and it's just general marketing fluff coming out at present. There is a high probability that what is said now won't be the final version. Personally I find it hard to believe BMW would miss out on all those potential subscriptions of cars that meet the comfort access requirement they state in the blurb
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      07-02-2020, 12:59 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by jwtw20 View Post
Truth is none of us know and it's just general marketing fluff coming out at present. There is a high probability that what is said now won't be the final version. Personally I find it hard to believe BMW would miss out on all those potential subscriptions of cars that meet the comfort access requirement they state in the blurb
Well it's not looking good. Initially a member found new codes that enable smart access for >07/20 builds -- not in our cars. Great, maybe a software update. Now BMW is specifically saying it's a hardware change. That adds credibility to Apple only supporting a specific version and BMW changing hardware to follow suit. You're right though, we really don't know until the cars come out and we see what's what.
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      07-02-2020, 01:08 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmahh View Post
Well it's not looking good. Initially a member found new codes that enable smart access for >07/20 builds -- not in our cars. Great, maybe a software update. Now BMW is specifically saying it's a hardware change. That adds credibility to Apple only supporting a specific version and BMW changing hardware to follow suit. You're right though, we really don't know until the cars come out and we see what's what.
My money is on that this won't be a retrofit. It doesn't make sense that they are banging in the fact that it's July 2020 or later. I reached out to BMW Twitter with my build code and they said that my vehicle won't have the feature. Others have heard differently from the 4Genius line. That being said there is no evidence here other than hope that this will be retroactive. Today's news with the specific mention of the July production date for the required hardware in a release about OTA updates to me is the death knell of this delusion.
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      07-02-2020, 01:49 PM   #92
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I posted a similar question in another thread...i had no idea what changed for july 1 2020 and beyond, but should've checked this thread first.

At the end of the day, would it be cool to use? Yes. At the end of the day, I do not have smart locks on my house and refuse to ever go that route...so i need to carry the 2 keys to get in my gate and house. I will be the first to admit that I fall for all the tech BS. While I will bitch and moan that I can't use my iphone to open and start the vehicle, i think i will survive. Hopefully everyone feels the same? Let's just try and justify why we don't care!
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      07-02-2020, 01:57 PM   #93
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It’s utterly stupid that I can’t use my phone for a February build.
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      07-02-2020, 02:07 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmahh View Post
That's like saying Bluetooth is Bluetooth or WiFi is WiFi. You know that's not true. At any rate, Digital Keys use NFC yes, but it is not just an NFC reader. Read the consortium's info posted on previous pages. There's digital 1.0 - 3.0 now. Additionally, let us not forget Apple may only support 2.0 or 3.0, and if our cars have 1.0, it's not BMW's fault.
Not BMW's fault???? I am 11/11/18 and was promised that I could use an iPhone to unlock my car!!!

Edited to say written in haste and meant to refer to all the features one gets from our key fob. I am just frustrated as an early adopter to see BMW break so many promises.
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      07-02-2020, 02:09 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeno View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by timmahh View Post
That's like saying Bluetooth is Bluetooth or WiFi is WiFi. You know that's not true. At any rate, Digital Keys use NFC yes, but it is not just an NFC reader. Read the consortium's info posted on previous pages. There's digital 1.0 - 3.0 now. Additionally, let us not forget Apple may only support 2.0 or 3.0, and if our cars have 1.0, it's not BMW's fault.
Not BMW's fault???? I am 11/11/18 and was promised that I could use an iPhone to unlock my car!!!
I agree, regardless of technology or Apple, they sold and promised smartphone operation and access sharing to all G05s from late 2018 onwards. It is BMW's fault/responsibility and I want them to be accountable to such responsibilities one way or another.
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      07-02-2020, 02:15 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeno View Post
I am 11/11/18 and was promised that I could use an iPhone to unlock my car!!!
Strictly speaking, I believe you can both lock and unlock your car from the app (see below) and could for a while now. However, I was promised operation of the car (not just lock and unlock) and sharing of operation access. We should try to keep it precise.
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      07-02-2020, 02:53 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by LexxM3 View Post
Strictly speaking, I believe you can both lock and unlock your car from the app (see below) and could for a while now. However, I was promised operation of the car (not just lock and unlock) and sharing of operation access. We should try to keep it precise.
I corrected my post written in haste as I have a visceral reaction to BMW having loaded up with so many promises then finding ways to not delivery or for endless delays or to add purchase fees, etc.
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      07-02-2020, 02:56 PM   #98
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Interesting in the app locale difference. In the UK I can't remotely beep the horn, only get "Ventilate Now" (cool, not heat), can "look" around my vehicle where you can "see" around yours and some different icons. Crazy German coders.
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      07-02-2020, 03:06 PM   #99
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Here is an ancient thread that folks like me used to hope it would not be long before my iPhone and perhaps even my iW could be used as a key.

Notice the BMW video in the OP:

https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...ne+digital+key
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      07-02-2020, 03:07 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmahh View Post
That's like saying Bluetooth is Bluetooth or WiFi is WiFi. You know that's not true. At any rate, Digital Keys use NFC yes, but it is not just an NFC reader. Read the consortium's info posted on previous pages. There's digital 1.0 - 3.0 now. Additionally, let us not forget Apple may only support 2.0 or 3.0, and if our cars have 1.0, it's not BMW's fault.
Let's figure out what we know. We know for a fact that the cars have an NFC reader. The NFC v 1.0 vs 3.0 has to do with the transmission and not the reading. I don't think you need a special reader to read any of NFC signals. It's all about how Apple will implement it. Do they want the 3.0 so you can keep your phone in your pocket, or the 1.0 so you have to touch the door handle like Apple Pay. The way I see it, and I could be completely wrong about it, is that the car is just receiving the signal. The hardware transmitting the signal (ie our phones) is where the version 1.0 to 3.0 come into play. How the signal gets bundled up and sent to the receiver shouldn't matter on the receiving end.

To me the proper WiFi analogy would be if you bought a new computer with a WiFi adapter thats 802.1.1n but your router is an old school 802.11a. Does that mean your new computer will not get WiFi? No, it just means it won't take advantage of the newest features. The same has to be true with NFC or else it would get dated within a year. It will be compatible across the whole spectrum. you just won't be able to utilize it to it's fullest capacity if you don't have the latest hardware.
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      07-02-2020, 04:06 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTENGR View Post
Let's figure out what we know. We know for a fact that the cars have an NFC reader. The NFC v 1.0 vs 3.0 has to do with the transmission and not the reading. I don't think you need a special reader to read any of NFC signals. It's all about how Apple will implement it. Do they want the 3.0 so you can keep your phone in your pocket, or the 1.0 so you have to touch the door handle like Apple Pay. The way I see it, and I could be completely wrong about it, is that the car is just receiving the signal. The hardware transmitting the signal (ie our phones) is where the version 1.0 to 3.0 come into play. How the signal gets bundled up and sent to the receiver shouldn't matter on the receiving end.

To me the proper WiFi analogy would be if you bought a new computer with a WiFi adapter thats 802.1.1n but your router is an old school 802.11a. Does that mean your new computer will not get WiFi? No, it just means it won't take advantage of the newest features. The same has to be true with NFC or else it would get dated within a year. It will be compatible across the whole spectrum. you just won't be able to utilize it to it's fullest capacity if you don't have the latest hardware.
"It's all about how Apple will implement it"

I think that's the key point here (if not, then BMW is being rude as hell ). The fact that Apple supports it on the 2018 models (XS/Max/R), which does NOT have the UWB chip, means that they are theoretically starting with 2.0 support and will support 3.0 as it rolls out.

However, the reason a Wireless AC adapter can connect to an old N router is because there are common security protocols at play. The AC adapter can join a WPA2 N network because WPA2 is supported by both sides. If Wireless AC only supported 802.1x authentication and your router does not, you'll never get the two to work together. As another example, if AC was secured by hardware features (let's say on-chip hardware encryption) and the N network doesn't support that, we have a hardware disparity causing the issue.

This all more intricate than we're willing to accept (they both tap and read, it should work right?). Yes it's just a local tap & read, but given the keys can be shared and revoked over the internet, it's far more complex than the WiFi Networks saying "hey I'm bob the password is bananas1" and the router saying "welcome aboard!" or a physical NFC chip saying "hello I am 123456" and the car checks itself and says "123456 is permitted". Think about it, our digital keycards are doing NOTHING but telling anything you touch that it is 123456. The host has to respond properly. Ever tap your iPhone on something that shouldn't trigger Apple Pay and it does? That's because something is going AHHH IM NFC LOOK AT ME.

If the physical reader has some differences, i.e. chipset changes to support additional parameters or encryption keys, not found in 1.0 spec and not found in our dummy wallet card, we're SOL. It seems that even though some Androids are supported from the factory, they may be supported as "passive 1.0" devices. I.e., can you share the digital android key with other people? If not, then it's just functioning the same as our wallet card. This is further backed by the fact that not every NFC equipped Android is supported.

Digital Key 2.0 was released in May of this year by the way, which absolutely further supports the case that our cars only have the 1.0 spec.. 1.0 came out in June of 2018. Spec 2.0 also supports unlocking/starting on a mobile device with depleted batteries, which means there is some data stored outside of the entire OS being accessed to support this -- likely hardware with a few parameters that can exchange data at a very low power state without the OS being fired up. Recall that on iOS, the storage is encrypted at rest and does not unlock until the device fully boots and the password is supplied. If 2.0 further enhances security by requiring active data exchange to authorize the information being presented, the physical hardware and programming on the 1.0 system may not support that.

So.. allll of that said, this is my assumption/summary:
  • 2019/2020 X5s came with DigitalKey 1.0 support
  • 2021 X5s have a hardware + software change to support 2.0 and possibly 3.0 support
  • Apple is not going to support the DigitalKey 1.0 standard, only 2.0 and 3.0

My god that's a lot of text.

Edit: also keep in mind, NFC is merely a component of the digital key specs. It integrates a common hardware standard like NFC to send/receive data, but that doesn't mean it only does that.
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      07-03-2020, 01:23 PM   #102
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Honestly, wouldn't this be an Apple issue? Since the current Androids can do the same thing with current X5s, what is Apple's deal? I assume it's their privacy BS, but who knows. It would be nice to have the capability, but maybe a "lite" version that only does lock/unlock and start, but not sharing keys? I think it could go either way for a backwards compatibility...BMW can charge all the previous customers the annual fee or whatever. I don't understand their play here, but how many people will go out and trade their 2019 or 2020 pre-7/1/20 just to get this function? Why not try to eek out some extra dough with backwards compatibility?
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      07-03-2020, 01:50 PM   #103
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Really disappointed and annoyed by this on how BMW is not rolling this out to G05 as a standard - old and new when the hardware is already in the car 😡😡😡😡
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      07-06-2020, 07:51 PM   #104
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Besides the carkey, bmw needs to make the rear seat entertainment apple compatible.
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      07-07-2020, 02:58 PM   #105
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I have no idea what the implication of this is but on the BMW website the Car Key availability seems to have changed from "vehicles built from July 2020 or later" to "vehicles built from summer 2020 or later".

https://www.bmw.com/en/innovation/bm...w-car-key.html
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      07-08-2020, 07:58 AM   #106
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Digital Key 1.5 is not car hardware dependant, that much I know. Assumption being you already have v1.0 of course including Comfort Access.

1.5 will not be made available to earlier models, even after receiving 07/2020.

There are currently no plans to retrofit, but it has not been ruled out.

All being well 07/2020 will be an RSU early Q4 2020.

I'll be able to test if it can be manually retrofitted soon. I suspect it will be locked by VIN but we'll see.
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      07-08-2020, 12:05 PM   #107
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Well, if there’s one silver lining to this is that we can cancel that part of the subscription service. The amount of “nickel and diming” BMW is doing or attempting to do is approaching ludicrous levels.
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      07-09-2020, 02:24 PM   #108
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I'm wondering if there are any legal basis to challenge this when technically it should be rolled out to previous versions🤔
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      07-14-2020, 04:21 PM   #109
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Apple Car Key will work on older Models

Apple Car Key will work on older models with iDrive 7 exception (X3 & X4 even 2021 built cars)

It will work if your car meets the following requirements:

Comfort Access
Remote engine start
Key card

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      07-14-2020, 04:49 PM   #110
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Is he a known reliable source?
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