[mikeokimster]

Now that the 2020 Cayenne GTS has been unveiled would like to gauge the opinions of this car vs the 2020 x5m competition. In the past generations the horsepower gap was somewhat closer with the x5m traditionally compared with a cayenne turbo/s trim. With pricing of this generation Cayenne gts and x5m so close and a horsepower gap a whopping 164 delta what are your thoughts and preferences.

2020 x5m competition
617 hp
0-60 3.7
Well optioned $122k

2020 Cayenne GTS
453 hp
0-60 4.2 with sports chrono
Well optioned $125k

[stein_325i]

My thoughts on both...

Exterior - Porsche looks better and has a cleaner look that just looks more luxurious. X5 is more aggressive however there are some questionable choices, but still not bad, just not E70 or E53 level good.

Interior - BMW is more ergonomic, better looking and in some areas has nicer materials. iDrive is also better than PCM, but most use Apple Carplay so it doesn't really make too much of a difference. Porsche build quality is better, but X5 is also solid. Also, X5 has physical controls, Porsche has touch buttons

Driving Dynamics - Can't speak on this topic as I haven't driven either, however I would put my money on the Porsche having better driving dynamics, handling, steering etc. (based on my experience of the Cayenne Turbo) and in the Porsche world, most of the time the GTS drives better than the Turbo so it should be very impressive for an SUV, as the Turbo is already very good. Sadly the Cayenne uses a ZF-Auto and not a PDK, good transmission but PDK is still better. I'd also put my money on the Cayenne being much more comfortable, Porsche's Air-Suspension and ride and handling balance is just top notch, the X3M and X5M have been criticized for a harsh ride, but as always YMMV (again haven't tested X5M but I do agree for the X3M).

Price - BMW of course, Porsche Tax is a thing, but at least GTS comes with a lot of standard equipment (compared to S/Turbo). Porsche will hold value better, but not as well as a Macan or Porsche sports car.

Verdict - E63S Wagon Seriously though, I would take an E63S Wagon over both. Sedan like handling with SUV practicality, an AMG V8 and a gorgeous interior.

I would also check out the new GLE 63S, I honestly think it looks better than both the Cayenne and X5 and it has the best engine of the three (in my opinion).

[alex2364]

Out of those two I’d get the Porsche, but I’d also look at the Audi RS6.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by mikeokimster

Now that the 2020 Cayenne GTS has been unveiled would like to gauge the opinions of this car vs the 2020 x5m competition. In the past generations the horsepower gap was somewhat closer with the x5m traditionally compared with a cayenne turbo/s trim. With pricing of this generation Cayenne gts and x5m so close and a horsepower gap a whopping 164 delta what are your thoughts and preferences.

2020 x5m competition
617 hp
0-60 3.7
Well optioned $122k

2020 Cayenne GTS
453 hp
0-60 4.2 with sports chrono
Well optioned $125k

Those numbers are inaccurate. BMW always underrates the numbers. X5MC should be around 670 hp and should accelerate to 60 mph in 3.4 sec or less. If performance is the priority, there is really no comparison here.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

Don’t disagree with much here, but BMW quality and materials are a step or two below Porsche - having owned about 10 M cars and around a dozen Porsches, this continues to be more and more evident. My 2 Macan S’ and Macan GTS at roughly half the price of my M5C were much better quality, fit/finish, and held up better over time. The Cayenne is a step above the Macan too. Also, the GTS models always hold better than the other models. The X5M unless you lease, need to be willing to lose about 60% of its value in 2 years which is just hard to stomach. They just drop like bricks.

For me, the Cayenne is a much better looking car, along with better quality, and an engine and exhaust note that put the BMW to shame, I’d take the Porsche. It’s just a better overall experience judging from the Turbo model and my ownership of several GTS models in multiple platforms for Porsche.

Quality yes, and in some areas the materials are better, however the center console and door cards of the Macan and Cayenne are a bit too plasticky for my taste.

[mikeokimster]

Originally Posted by jstein55

Quality yes, and in some areas the materials are better, however the center console and door cards of the Macan and Cayenne are a bit too plasticky for my taste.

The macan especially has door cards that quite indeed plasticky so much so full leather is almost a base requirement which at that point elevates the interior by quite a margin.

Overall, the poll results are quite interesting. Definitely had preconceived notions the x5m would have a landslide lead.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by mikeokimster

The macan especially has door cards that quite indeed plasticky so much so full leather is almost a base requirement which at that point elevates the interior by quite a margin.

Overall, the poll results are quite interesting. Definitely had preconceived notions the x5m would have a landslide lead.

Yes this was my biggest pet peeve with the Cayenne and Macan I was looking at. Full leather is beuatiful on the top dash/doortops, but even still it doesn't cover the door cards (unlike the Panamera) or even the large grab handles on both the center console and doors, they're still plastic and require an extra $1k in options to get them covered in Alcantara or Leather and at that point a custom order is required, most dealers only order the cheap partial leather since the Macan and Cayenne are their sales leaders. The quality is very nice, but materials wise the X5's cabin feels much nicer and in my opinion looks nicer too with more stitching and design patterns as well as physical controls.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by jstein55

Yes this was my biggest pet peeve with the Cayenne and Macan I was looking at. Full leather is beuatiful on the top dash/doortops, but even still it doesn't cover the door cards (unlike the Panamera) or even the large grab handles on both the center console and doors, they're still plastic and require an extra $1k in options to get them covered in Alcantara or Leather and at that point a custom order is required, most dealers only order the cheap partial leather since the Macan and Cayenne are their sales leaders. The quality is very nice, but materials wise the X5's cabin feels much nicer and in my opinion looks nicer too with more stitching and design patterns as well as physical controls.

Just my opinion, but I think the leather quality BMW uses is not as good as what Porsche uses.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

Just my opinion, but I think the leather quality BMW uses is not as good as what Porsche uses.

Oh I agree, I just find that BMW covers more areas with leather than Porsche does. Porsche leather is of higher quality, but I prefer that BMW covers the door cards, center console and lower bins in Merino leather, while Porsche puts harder plastic in some of those areas.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

Yes Porsche does charge you for what you get and you get what you pay for. I will tell you though, Porsche parts, and their leather are a step or two above BMW. Not only that they're screwed together better. And beyond that, the paint quality is better, the controls are better, the seat motors are crisper in their operation, etc. Having owned many, as mentioned, the small things stand out more and more.
My Macan GTS was a ~80K msrp, my M5C was 115K, yet the Macan GTS felt and looked like the more expensive car. Now, had I spent another 3-5k on leather, it would have been even nicer. BMW charges you 3500 in the M5C to add full leather and it's not even really that mice. Also the stitching is nice but many cheap cars do that so it's not anything extravagant to do.

Again, not disagreeing to Porsche quality, just disappointing that they use more plastic in areas that are noticeable on a car that is a whole lot more expensive. It may be high quality plastic, but in the end its still plastic. The leather is very nice, but I expect in a car of their price to use it in more areas where the competition does. Even my son's Mazda6 has a leather padded center console. Not a deal-breaker but an annoyance and something you notice everyday. One of the reasons why my wife preferred the GLC she bought over the X3 was the general use of more leather/leatherette where the X3 used hard plastic.

[quick]

Porsche all day long. I wish I had bought a CTT instead of X5M and I agree with the other member, do look into E63S wagon. Practicality of an SUV while the drive/feel of a sports sedan.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

Yes Porsche does charge you for what you get and you get what you pay for. I will tell you though, Porsche parts, and their leather are a step or two above BMW. Not only that they’re screwed together better. And beyond that, the paint quality is better, the controls are better, the seat motors are crisper in their operation, etc. Having owned many, as mentioned, the small things stand out more and more.
My Macan GTS was a ~80K msrp, my M5C was 115K, yet the Macan GTS felt and looked like the more expensive car. Now, had I spent another 3-5k on leather, it would have been even nicer. BMW charges you 3500 in the M5C to add full leather and it’s not even really that mice. Also the stitching is nice but many cheap cars do that so it’s not anything extravagant to do.

I also have a PTS 991.1S and it has full leather, and the door cards are wrapped in leather. I even have my 18 way adaptive sport seat backs in leather. My full leather 718 GTS was also this way. Once you get full leather, Porsche has a lot of leather. You can even get much of the other parts like the steering column in leather and they go all out and it is nothin short of spectacular.

LOL a Macan better feel like an expensive car because it's balls slow for the price you pay. Full leather is nice but you are paying $$$ for it and the base and mid-range Porsches have a lot of plastic. I don't have a horse in this race as I didn't even vote seeing I would have to drive both myself to make an educated decision on what one I liked better.

[fastboatster]

Speaking of Macan, it’s a nicely dressed up Q5 with better suspension tuning, more decent engine and a “reliable” dsg trans from the 2010-2016 s4. That transmission would be one reason I wouldn’t trust that car.
I do agree that you might want to go with Porsches if you want to sell it later, all depends on how long you are planning to own the car for.

[Humdizzle]

lol at fast SUVs. just get something with good space, build quality and a decent motor.

But yeah.. Porsche > BMW. I'd take a Macan over an X5M

[Crimson92]

Originally Posted by fastboatster

Speaking of Macan, it’s a nicely dressed up Q5 with better suspension tuning, more decent engine and a “reliable” dsg trans from the 2010-2016 s4. That transmission would be one reason I wouldn’t trust that car.
I do agree that you might want to go with Porsches if you want to sell it later, all depends on how long you are planning to own the car for.

I don't think that's accurate about the pdk trans.

Pretty sure it's a Porsche unit.

[fastboatster]

Originally Posted by Crimson92

I don't think that's accurate about the pdk trans.

Pretty sure it's a Porsche unit.

No, unfortunately it's a variant of dl501 (other name 0b5) transmission. These are not "real" pdk like they got on Caymans etc which are made by ZF, these are Borg Warner units. I know because I used some parts for my S4 trans and these crossreferenced to Macan parts. These transmissions look identical except that Macan has an electronically controlled center diff while the S4 has a mechanical center diff.
Now, why this is not a good thing? DL501 is problematic no matter what fanboys tell you.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by fastboatster

No, unfortunately it's a variant of dl501 (other name 0b5) transmission. These are not "real" pdk like they got on Caymans etc which are made by ZF, these are Borg Warner units. I know because I used some parts for my S4 trans and these crossreferenced to Macan parts. These transmissions look identical except that Macan has an electronically controlled center diff while the S4 has a mechanical center diff.
Now, why this is not a good thing? DL501 is problematic no matter what fanboys tell you.

The PDK feels exactly the same as any Cayman/Boxster/911. I’ve driven them all and can’t tell any difference with the Macan unit.

[fastboatster]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

The PDK feels exactly the same as any Cayman/Boxster/911. I’ve driven them all and can’t tell any difference with the Macan unit.

You probably can't tell the design differences just by driving, these are all dcts after all. Still, if you spend 5 minutes looking at parts diagrams, you'll realize that macan's pdk is not the same as other Porsches pdks. Glad you are happy with your Macan, however it would be a no go for me because of the dl501 transmission it has. Not that it doesn't perform but it did have a tendency to eat sh1t in Audis.

[R N M]

Cayenne Coupe with the center Sport Exhaust looks great and would be my choice.

[dgoldenz]

Originally Posted by fastboatster

You probably can't tell the design differences just by driving, these are all dcts after all. Still, if you spend 5 minutes looking at parts diagrams, you'll realize that macan's pdk is not the same as other Porsches pdks. Glad you are happy with your Macan, however it would be a no go for me because of the dl501 transmission it has. Not that it doesn't perform but it did have a tendency to eat sh1t in Audis.

That's what a warranty is for. A new PDK is $20k. I can definitely tell the difference between a PDK and an Audi DCT though...

[c1pher]

Porsche. There is no substitute.

[fastboatster]

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

That's what a warranty is for. A new PDK is $20k. I can definitely tell the difference between a PDK and an Audi DCT though...

Yeah, good aftermarket warranty is a must. They liked to fail right after the manufacturer warranty expired. As for the difference, you can make the same hardware feel different with different software, and that's what VW group did. They are really good at making sure their brands don't cannibalize sales from each other. But the macan is built on the bones of Q5 no matter how you spin it.
As for whether there's no substitute for Porsches, I somewhat agree but only for their mid engine cars. For the SUVs built to cash out on the badge's value using front engine platforms developed by other VW group entity, maybe not so much.