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      06-20-2019, 03:42 PM   #1
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So I am sitting here bored waiting for a flatbed for 1.5h with a flat rear 21" P-Zero on my under 2200km X5. Might as well rant about this RFT experience.

Note that I have no spare and it is impossible for a Canadian X5 purchaser to purchase a spare — BMW marketing is filled with staff as bright as black holes ...

No idea of the cause, didn't hit anything, normal urban driving. Get a car alert, "tire low, slow down and stop when safe." Tire pressure at 4psi. So far so good, at that point I would not have even known I had a flat, it was that good. So I gently make it to the office, around 6km so far.

Arrange dealer appointment to change the tire. Dealer is 10km away. Started to drive, a couple of km in, the back end is wobbly and I am hearing a squishy sound. Pull off, tire at zero psi, still on rim. Call dealer, "is it ok for me to continue driving" — no one knows based on above description, no one will take responsibility so we agree that I shouldn't drive. Now waiting for tow truck.

This is my first RFT. Not fully impressed. I thought I was supposed to be able drive 50+ km on to safety/service here? Had I a spare, I would have changed it and dealt with logistics on reasonable time. With RFT, just stuck like an idiot, wasting time and waiting to be rescued.

I am demanding the dealer gets me a spare, not taking no for an answer whatever it takes. Idiotic decision to not include a spare.
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      06-20-2019, 05:10 PM   #2
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Ugh. I’m so sorry.
When you find out what happened to the tire, please reveal.

This is on a new X5, correct, with factory tires?
What size tires?
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      06-20-2019, 05:17 PM   #3
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Ugh. I'm so sorry.
When you find out what happened to the tire, please reveal.

This is on a new X5, correct, with factory tires?
What size tires?
Yap, 5 weeks, 2200km, just past break-in. M Sport with the factory P-Zero 21". I couldn't see any damage, but dealer is instructed to document everything and pictures. The dealer cost for the tire is absolutely ludicrous, but will be chasing Pirelli for coverage. Will update when I know more.
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      06-20-2019, 05:39 PM   #4
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I originally asked my dealer to swap to non Run-flats, but they are a small shop and only sell RF tires. They also don’t do any aftermarket services like PPF or other coatings.

They told me that the car had to have run flats to be covered under warranty. I don’t know if that is true or not. I plan to trade in four years when the warranty expires. If I plan to keep my next car longer, I’d change out the run flats.

I doubt my tires will last the four years. As it is, I’ll probably replace with run flats to make it easier to trade it in. But I might ask the dealer about that before paying the outrageous cost. I think BMW also “approves” at least one type of non RFs. But I can’t recall from the research I did at the time.

Or, buy new tires and have the old RFs put back on for the trade.

Does anyone know if changing the tires would affect resale or trade value?
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      06-20-2019, 05:47 PM   #5
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This might be helpful, from blog.tirerack.com

Many BMW owners are opting to replace their factory run-flat tires with conventional non-run-flat tires. One can literally find hundreds of posts across popular BMW forums filled with disapproval of the Original Equipment run-flat tires. Many customers have complained that the tire is either too stiff, gets too many bubbles or wears out too quickly.

While it seems that some drivers are happy with their switch to non-run-flat tires, not everyone is in the majority. Be sure to study the trade-offs, as well as some of the alternatives you may not have considered.

Since many have tested only one or two models of run-flat tires and assume all run-flats have the same problems, it's important to remember not all run-flat tires are created equal. Did you know there are newer generations of run-flat tires available today that eclipse the older technology? One shining example is the Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 ZP which is praised in forums as an improvement over older run-flat models in regards to ride comfort, wet and dry grip, as well as treadwear. Another example is the Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Position RFT, which is an outstanding all-season run-flat tire.

Run-flat tires do not wear out faster. Comparing the Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 against the Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 ZP (run-flat model), both tires have the same rubber compound, same dry and wet grip and same treadwear. The PS2 ZP is an outstanding run-flat tire. Take a look at this review of the tire from a 2007 BMW 335i owner:

"Took the car out for a long drive, mostly back roads and some interstate to take advantage of our 80 degree day. This tire will take all of your preconceived notions regarding the harshness and ride of RFT and throw them out the window. I still cannot get over how smooth the ride is. This car now rides smoother than it did with non-run-flat all-seasons that just came off. Also, this is one very quiet tire.

As far as the handling, sticks like glue! The steering response and on-center feel is exceptional. While I think the Bridgestones had a slightly (very slightly) quicker turn-in, the PS2 ZP does not have the 'nervousness' that was associated with the Bridgestone that required those constant steering inputs. Bottom line, for those of you like me who did not prefer the original Bridgestones, but still want RFT capability for whatever reason, your prayers have been answered by Michelin." -- Tire Rack Consumer Review, 2007 BMW 335i

Before you jump on the anti-run-flat bandwagon, consider your available alternatives and understand the trade-offs. Check out our Tire Survey Results to help you make your final decision.
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      06-20-2019, 05:52 PM   #6
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Problem is, I do have the spare. So to use that, I need to have run flats - that is my understanding.
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      06-20-2019, 06:35 PM   #7
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First off, congratulations on the Raptors win. Love a healthy crack at a rematch, but happy for you guys.

The roads in the Bay Area are brutally bad — my wife has run flats on her ‘17 440i which, unfortunately, has 20” wheels on it (30mm sidewall). We don’t have fillings, but it’s a rough bounce every time you hit a pothole -- can imagine you'd have to go to the dentist a lot haha. Have non-RFT on other cars.

I have been saved twice by my run flats: both times, they have bubbled but I was about to limp to the dealer and get a courtesy car, which was hugely helpful.

Like the ride and noise slightly better on M4, but hard to tell because not totally apples to apples. I have cracked a rim on the M4 in San Francisco though on some of the same potholes.

Haven’t really seen a quality issue per se, and I like the piece of mind I’ve had with the extra range. I also make sure I buy the wheel and tire protection, so it’s a $50 switch when they blow.
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      06-21-2019, 09:40 AM   #8
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I checked my car yesterday. I thought I had pirellis but turns out I have Michelin primacy green 50r19 tires.

They are probably unique to BMW because I can’t find reviews or non-bmw dealers that sell the exact tire, but they cost about $350 each to replace via BMW

I’m continuing to look for lower prices on these exact tires, and you can buy Michelin runflats for a lot less, but I’m having trouble finding any comparative info.

Does anyone have tire expertise to offer me a good option if/when I have to replace these? I know nada about tires, except that I have to buy them occasionally.
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      06-21-2019, 06:35 PM   #9
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Update on the tire: just a plain old boring nail, nothing sinister ...

... except the replacement cost $1000 CAD installed plus taxes, holy crap! Anyways, Pirelli seems to have a road hazard warranty on their run flats including original equipment and direct purchase, so I've started the process. If they come through, that itself might well justify getting their run-flats in the future.

I am back on the road ... and have now dedicated the TPMS display to a preset button to use at the start of every drive — would have been nice if that was a widget you can show on a home screen or part of another default display.
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      06-22-2019, 12:09 AM   #10
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First off, congratulations on the Raptors win. Love a healthy crack at a rematch, but happy for you guys.
Thank you. That was a proper nail-biter :-).

Quote:
Originally Posted by BayAreaBimmers View Post
Haven't really seen a quality issue per se, and I like the piece of mind I've had with the extra range. I also make sure I buy the wheel and tire protection, so it's a $50 switch when they blow.
Well it seems it was a simple nail. If Pirelli comes through on road hazard coverage, they might be on the way to develop a loyal customer and to RFTs at that.

Although ... I am still not clear why they only lasted for about a max of 8km from TPMS trigger to clearly unsafe to drive on for a fairly small nail puncture in the flat area of the tire, pretty much the stereotypical failure I expect RFTs are designed for, no sidewall damage at all or anywhere near sidewall. The promise is 10x that range. Thoughts?
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      06-22-2019, 12:40 AM   #11
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[IMG][/IMG] 2 of 3 RFT issues were sidewalls. The one TPMS nail issue I was able to drive 50km without incident. I wonder if the nail didn't get part way in and then wiggle? That doesn't sound right to me. If that was the case, then ya, cheaper options out there...
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      06-22-2019, 04:38 PM   #12
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Here is the extent of the damage that caused my 2200km old P-Zero RFTs to collapse after 8km. I am going to eventually have to hear a rational justification from Pirelli (and from BMW, for that matter) about their claims ...
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      06-22-2019, 09:50 PM   #13
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Here is the extent of the damage that caused my 2200km old P-Zero RFTs to collapse after 8km. I am going to eventually have to hear a rational justification from Pirelli (and from BMW, for that matter) about their claims ...
BMW goes off what Pirelli says; run flats don't always work and I'm not a fan either.
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      06-22-2019, 10:00 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by AndroidRobot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexxM3 View Post
Here is the extent of the damage that caused my 2200km old P-Zero RFTs to collapse after 8km. I am going to eventually have to hear a rational justification from Pirelli (and from BMW, for that matter) about their claims ...
BMW goes off what Pirelli says; run flats don't always work and I'm not a fan either.
And yet the justification by BMW for no spare available is "you don't need it, you have run flats". Not letting them off the hook with that.
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      06-22-2019, 10:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LexxM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidRobot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexxM3 View Post
Here is the extent of the damage that caused my 2200km old P-Zero RFTs to collapse after 8km. I am going to eventually have to hear a rational justification from Pirelli (and from BMW, for that matter) about their claims ...
BMW goes off what Pirelli says; run flats don't always work and I'm not a fan either.
And yet the justification by BMW for no spare available is "you don't need it, you have run flats". Not letting them off the hook with that.
the spare tire isn't anything glamorous and you can buy it, look up the P/B's needed and viola. I'm not defending them at all, there's simply more to the story than blaming X or Y
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      06-22-2019, 10:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidRobot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexxM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidRobot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexxM3 View Post
Here is the extent of the damage that caused my 2200km old P-Zero RFTs to collapse after 8km. I am going to eventually have to hear a rational justification from Pirelli (and from BMW, for that matter) about their claims ...
BMW goes off what Pirelli says; run flats don't always work and I'm not a fan either.
And yet the justification by BMW for no spare available is "you don't need it, you have run flats". Not letting them off the hook with that.
the spare tire isn't anything glamorous and you can buy it, look up the P/B's needed and viola. I'm not defending them at all, there's simply more to the story than blaming X or Y
No, spare tire is not available for purchase in Canada. I demanded to order it prior to pickup and was told can't be done.

This is literally the response from my SA:

Quote:
Unfortunately we do not have a spare tire kit option available for you at this time. I have spoken to parts (and shared your forum post) but that isn't available here in Canada at the moment. My parts manager has made numerous previous inquiries regarding the same and we can update you when something becomes available. However, if I am understanding your use case correctly, I don't think you would want to be towing on a spare/space saver tire anyways. I would argue you are better off on a flat full size run flat.
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      06-22-2019, 11:01 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LexxM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidRobot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexxM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidRobot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexxM3 View Post
Here is the extent of the damage that caused my 2200km old P-Zero RFTs to collapse after 8km. I am going to eventually have to hear a rational justification from Pirelli (and from BMW, for that matter) about their claims ...
BMW goes off what Pirelli says; run flats don't always work and I'm not a fan either.
And yet the justification by BMW for no spare available is "you don't need it, you have run flats". Not letting them off the hook with that.
the spare tire isn't anything glamorous and you can buy it, look up the P/B's needed and viola. I'm not defending them at all, there's simply more to the story than blaming X or Y
No, spare tire is not available for purchase in Canada. I demanded to order it prior to pickup and was told can't be done.

This is literally the response from my SA:

Quote:
Unfortunately we do not have a spare tire kit option available for you at this time. I have spoken to parts (and shared your forum post) but that isn't available here in Canada at the moment. My parts manager has made numerous previous inquiries regarding the same and we can update you when something becomes available. However, if I am understanding your use case correctly, I don't think you would want to be towing on a spare/space saver tire anyways. I would argue you are better off on a flat full size run flat.
you can look up the parts on real OEM, other people have done the same. If it's that big of a deal by all means I'll find them. I comply understand not having the option sucks, being angry isn't always the best solution. I've been there too, but in the end sometimes taking a step back and seeing what can be done helps.
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      06-22-2019, 11:05 PM   #18
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Spare tire:

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=36_2527

there's a kit which rests inside the spare, I'll find the part numbers for it

Jack:

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=71_1045
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      06-22-2019, 11:11 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidRobot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexxM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidRobot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexxM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidRobot View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LexxM3 View Post
Here is the extent of the damage that caused my 2200km old P-Zero RFTs to collapse after 8km. I am going to eventually have to hear a rational justification from Pirelli (and from BMW, for that matter) about their claims ...
BMW goes off what Pirelli says; run flats don't always work and I'm not a fan either.
And yet the justification by BMW for no spare available is "you don't need it, you have run flats". Not letting them off the hook with that.
the spare tire isn't anything glamorous and you can buy it, look up the P/B's needed and viola. I'm not defending them at all, there's simply more to the story than blaming X or Y
No, spare tire is not available for purchase in Canada. I demanded to order it prior to pickup and was told can't be done.

This is literally the response from my SA:

Quote:
Unfortunately we do not have a spare tire kit option available for you at this time. I have spoken to parts (and shared your forum post) but that isn't available here in Canada at the moment. My parts manager has made numerous previous inquiries regarding the same and we can update you when something becomes available. However, if I am understanding your use case correctly, I don't think you would want to be towing on a spare/space saver tire anyways. I would argue you are better off on a flat full size run flat.
you can look up the parts on real OEM, other people have done the same. If it's that big of a deal by all means I'll find them. I comply understand not having the option sucks, being angry isn't always the best solution. I've been there too, but in the end sometimes taking a step back and seeing what can be done helps.
One of the problems is that I have no idea whether the US-available spare works over the M Sport brake and, considering the second problem below, it's quite a significant issue. I've asked here and no responses. Whom else do I ask?

Another problem is that the cost involved to get this imported into Canada from US at this point by official channels is truly ridiculous. Hence I've been asking for someone on the forum to help for a while without any bites at all.

But anyways, my sales contracts are with my Canadian dealer and BMW Canada, and there is a clear problem going on there (and it's not the dealer). I want BMW Canada to account for their claims and, likely dumbass, decisions. This isn't the first or only time.
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      06-22-2019, 11:16 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidRobot View Post
Spare tire:

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=36_2527

there's a kit which rests inside the spare, I'll find the part numbers for it

Jack:

https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=71_1045
Thank you. Does it fit over the M Sport brakes?
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      06-22-2019, 11:16 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by LexxM3 View Post
Quote:
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Originally Posted by LexxM3 View Post
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Originally Posted by AndroidRobot View Post
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Originally Posted by LexxM3 View Post
Here is the extent of the damage that caused my 2200km old P-Zero RFTs to collapse after 8km. I am going to eventually have to hear a rational justification from Pirelli (and from BMW, for that matter) about their claims ...
BMW goes off what Pirelli says; run flats don't always work and I'm not a fan either.
And yet the justification by BMW for no spare available is "you don't need it, you have run flats". Not letting them off the hook with that.
the spare tire isn't anything glamorous and you can buy it, look up the P/B's needed and viola. I'm not defending them at all, there's simply more to the story than blaming X or Y
No, spare tire is not available for purchase in Canada. I demanded to order it prior to pickup and was told can't be done.

This is literally the response from my SA:

Quote:
Unfortunately we do not have a spare tire kit option available for you at this time. I have spoken to parts (and shared your forum post) but that isn't available here in Canada at the moment. My parts manager has made numerous previous inquiries regarding the same and we can update you when something becomes available. However, if I am understanding your use case correctly, I don't think you would want to be towing on a spare/space saver tire anyways. I would argue you are better off on a flat full size run flat.
you can look up the parts on real OEM, other people have done the same. If it's that big of a deal by all means I'll find them. I comply understand not having the option sucks, being angry isn't always the best solution. I've been there too, but in the end sometimes taking a step back and seeing what can be done helps.
One of the problems is that I have no idea whether the US-available spare works over the M Sport brake and, considering the second problem below, it quite a significant issue. I've asked here and no responses. Whom else to I ask?

Another problem is that the cost involved to get this imported into Canada from US at this point by official channels is truly ridiculous. Hence I've been asking for someone on the forum to help for a while without any bites at all.

But anyways, my sales contracts are with my Canadian dealer and BMW Canada, and there is a clear problem going on there (and it's not the dealer). I want BMW Canada to account for their claims and, likely dumbass, decisions. This isn't the first or only time.
I use my VIN to find the P/N's, I drive a 50i M Sport so yes it will work.

I believe BMWpartswholesale.com or one of the other vendors would be the best point of contact. They have people who post on here so I think finding an answer won't be hard.

If I came off the wrong way my bad, I have my own issues with BMW too but I love my car. Every OEM has dumb literature even though that doesn't make it right.

there shouldn't be any red tape while ordering a tire + tool kit, then again I don't know much about Canadian law
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      06-22-2019, 11:21 PM   #22
LexxM3
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Here is the extent of the damage that caused my 2200km old P-Zero RFTs to collapse after 8km. I am going to eventually have to hear a rational justification from Pirelli (and from BMW, for that matter) about their claims ...
BMW goes off what Pirelli says; run flats don't always work and I'm not a fan either.
And yet the justification by BMW for no spare available is "you don't need it, you have run flats". Not letting them off the hook with that.
the spare tire isn't anything glamorous and you can buy it, look up the P/B's needed and viola. I'm not defending them at all, there's simply more to the story than blaming X or Y
No, spare tire is not available for purchase in Canada. I demanded to order it prior to pickup and was told can't be done.

This is literally the response from my SA:

Quote:
Unfortunately we do not have a spare tire kit option available for you at this time. I have spoken to parts (and shared your forum post) but that isn't available here in Canada at the moment. My parts manager has made numerous previous inquiries regarding the same and we can update you when something becomes available. However, if I am understanding your use case correctly, I don't think you would want to be towing on a spare/space saver tire anyways. I would argue you are better off on a flat full size run flat.
you can look up the parts on real OEM, other people have done the same. If it's that big of a deal by all means I'll find them. I comply understand not having the option sucks, being angry isn't always the best solution. I've been there too, but in the end sometimes taking a step back and seeing what can be done helps.
One of the problems is that I have no idea whether the US-available spare works over the M Sport brake and, considering the second problem below, it quite a significant issue. I've asked here and no responses. Whom else to I ask?

Another problem is that the cost involved to get this imported into Canada from US at this point by official channels is truly ridiculous. Hence I've been asking for someone on the forum to help for a while without any bites at all.

But anyways, my sales contracts are with my Canadian dealer and BMW Canada, and there is a clear problem going on there (and it's not the dealer). I want BMW Canada to account for their claims and, likely dumbass, decisions. This isn't the first or only time.
I use my VIN to find the P/N's, I drive a 50i M Sport so yes it will work.

I believe BMWpartswholesale.com or one of the other vendors would be the best point of contact. They have people who post on here so I think finding an answer won't be hard.

If I came off the wrong way my bad, I have my own issues with BMW too but I love my car. Every OEM has dumb literature even though that doesn't make it right.

there shouldn't be any red tape while ordering a tire + tool kit, then again I don't know much about Canadian law
You're fine, no need to apologize. I am just slowly exposing the context of this ridiculous situation.

So your car has the big blue M Sport brakes? If that's the case, that helps.

The cost issue is that with ridiculous after delivery pricing, the exchange rate, the shipping, the duties, taxes and brokerage fees, I am likely looking at around $1600-1800 CAD in my hands — does that sound reasonable?
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