X5 45e Long Term Storage

breslaw · 02-02-2022, 11:40 AM

Jessica at BMW finally got back to me regarding Long Term storage (6 month) on my new X5 45e. There is nothing in the manuals regarding this issue.
She told me to leave the HV battery at 100% but unplugged. Also I need to keep the 12 Volt battery on a trickle charger.
I was confused and got different answers from people. The maintenance book says (under subject 12 Volt Battery) that the smaller battery is charged by the HV battery but she said to ignore this because of the long period of storage.
Interestingly I asked for her to email me this response but she said they are not allowed to do that.

nZtiZia · 02-02-2022, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by breslaw

[…]Interestingly I asked for her to email me this response but she said they are not allowed to do that.

interesting response. she won't put it in writing because she's instructing you opposite what the owner's manual says and doesn't want to be held liable.

my take is that the 45e is a hybrid so some systems can't be treated the same way as ICE-only vehicles (e.g. trickle charging 12V battery). for one, the electrical system is completely different with its AC-DC and DC-DC converters and how its electronics feed off it.

I'd follow the manual and keep it plugged in because if you lose HV battery capacity, you'll also lose 12V capacity. if something happens, you'd have more leg to stand on by following what's written (though for a longer period of time) versus Jessica's instructions that goes against the engineer's instructions per manual. (what's her role? is she a Genius, engineer, messenger?)

breslaw · 02-02-2022, 01:15 PM

She is a Genius in Concierge group. She said she spoke with a service engineer as she did not know the answer herself.

jad03060 · 02-02-2022, 01:49 PM

I think that the DC-DC converter that charges the 12vdc system only operates when the vehicle is plugged into an EVSE and is actively charging the HV batteries or is in the ready state. The HV battery will hold a charge for a long time so won't turn the EVSE on very often whereas, all of the other electronics in the vehicle that run off of 12vdc will drain that battery over time.

If you keep the 12vdc system charged, the HV batteries should be happy.

LogicalApex · 02-02-2022, 03:26 PM

Her instructions don't make logical sense to me. So I would proceed with extreme caution on them especially since she won't put them in writing.

The HV battery will top up the 12v battery so you don't need a trickle charger. Since the HV system will keep the 12v system charged and the car has a lot of systems that can draw load from the car you can imagine that this will drain the HV battery over time. How much? I haven't tested it so I can't say. If your HV battery every reaches true 0 you'll need a new HV battery... If your 12v battery reaches 0 you won't be able to start the car...

I would leave it plugged in, like the manual and BMW literature states, and not worry about it.

jad03060 · 02-02-2022, 04:18 PM

I may be wrong, but the HV system does not operate unless in the READY state, or while actively charging via the EVSE. So, since the HV batteries have such a slow discharge rate, it could be a very long time before they tried to recharge, which obviously won't happen if it's not plugged in. So, trickle charging the 12vdc system does make sense, since some low-voltage things ARE continually on and a depleted 12vdc battery will be damaged if it is discharged too much, especially if it gets cold out while that's happening (the thing can freeze if it's depleted).

You could pull the HV disconnect switch and remove the 12vdc battery and put it on a maintainer.

LogicalApex · 02-02-2022, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jad03060

I may be wrong, but the HV system does not operate unless in the READY state, or while actively charging via the EVSE. So, since the HV batteries have such a slow discharge rate, it could be a very long time before they tried to recharge, which obviously won't happen if it's not plugged in. So, trickle charging the 12vdc system does make sense, since some low-voltage things ARE continually on and a depleted 12vdc battery will be damaged if it is discharged too much, especially if it gets cold out while that's happening (the thing can freeze if it's depleted).

You could pull the HV disconnect switch and remove the 12vdc battery and put it on a maintainer.

My manual suggests that the car will maintain the 12v even when the car is unplugged. It states that all you need to do to maintain the 12v during periods of storage is to ensure the HV battery is charged first and it specifically mentions that a trickle charger isn't effective.

But maybe this is an area where the X5 45e is different

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LunaTheBlue · 02-02-2022, 04:31 PM

I stored my 45e in my garage for 6 months. I parked it with a full battery and a full tank of fuel. I also lifted it onto jack stands (prevents flat spotting on tires).

The car’s electronics will go into a deep sleep state - the electronics stopped responding to the MyBMW app after about 30 days of sitting. I could no longer get updates or lock/unlock remotely. When I had a friend check my cars, he unlocked it with the key and the 45e finally updated in the MyBMW app and I could lock / unlock remotely. Then after another 30 days it stopped updating again.

I left it connected to my ChargePoint L2 charger and connected a CTEK charger for the 12V battery to the terminals under the hood. If you use a “smart” 12V charger it will condition the 12V battery as needed while in storage.

As for the L2 charger, when I returned home and reviewed the ChargePoint’s logs, the 45e never pulled a charge in the 6 months I was gone.

That tells me the HV battery won’t do anything while in storage state - it relies on the 12V battery like any other vehicle sitting in storage. If the HV battery was doing anything at all, it would’ve signaled the EVSE to charge at some point and I would’ve seen a log of that activity.

jad03060 · 02-02-2022, 04:40 PM

The HV batteries have a very low self-discharge rate. The 12vdc one does not, and even just sitting there will start to lose charge. I'd put a smart charger on the 12vdc battery, and probably leave it plugged into the EVSE, but that may not be necessary.

It sounds like my supposition is correct...the DC-DC power supply does not get turned on just from sitting there, or maybe in the above case, because it saw the 12vdc voltage level was sufficient, it never tried to turn on. STill don't know for sure. I'd follow their suggestion. I've had good luck with a Bosch battery maintainer. You want one that is smart enough to either detect or be put into AGM battery mode. The only thing on the Bosch unit is that if you lose AC power, it doesn't turn back on when power is applied. I don't know if that may be true for other models.

LunaTheBlue · 02-02-2022, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jad03060

The only thing on the Bosch unit is that if you lose AC power, it doesn't turn back on when power is applied. I don't know if that may be true for other models.

The dealer stocked CTEK charger will turn back on when power is lost and go through its startup procedure of checking the battery and continue conditioning if needed. My house had at least 5 power outages while I was gone (trees falling and oddly a car ran into the power substation killing Utility power for 5 hours).

I wouldn’t stress too much over storing your 45e - when I started driving again there were no issues and the battery still showed 100% charge with full range.

breslaw · 02-02-2022, 06:10 PM

What I stress over is BMW not telling the user what to do in this situation. All of your responses are logical but different from one another and reaching a conclusion is like the luck of the draw. I don't know why BMW can't be specific. I have emailed the president of BMW USA but he has not responded. Only a call from Jessica with NOTHING in writing. Totally frustrating.

kjx · 02-02-2022, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by breslaw

What I stress over is BMW not telling the user what to do in this situation. All of your responses are logical but different from one another and reaching a conclusion is like the luck of the draw. I don't know why BMW can't be specific. I have emailed the president of BMW USA but he has not responded. Only a call from Jessica with NOTHING in writing. Totally frustrating.

What Jessica is saying makes sense.

So let's break it down:
1. HV battery - top it up to 100%. There's no confusion here right?

2. 12V battery - what is the worst that will happen if you hook it up to a CTEK tender? Nothing bad. I've done it on my 45e and it's just fine. What if you don't do it? There's a good chance your 12V battery will go flat.

If the concern is about spending $100 on a charger, well, ok. But otherwise, there's nothing to break your head over here.

breslaw · 02-03-2022, 11:31 AM

Which CTEK model, there are many? Is there a difference between a charger and a tender?

r20 · 02-06-2022, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by breslaw

She is a Genius in Concierge group. She said she spoke with a service engineer as she did not know the answer herself.

l find that self labeling is usually the opposite of truth.

Genius
#1 Chinese Food
The best pizza

are usually all wrong.

W0ut · 02-06-2022, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by breslaw

Jessica at BMW finally got back to me regarding Long Term storage (6 month) on my new X5 45e. There is nothing in the manuals regarding this issue.
She told me to leave the HV battery at 100% but unplugged. Also I need to keep the 12 Volt battery on a trickle charger.
I was confused and got different answers from people. The maintenance book says (under subject 12 Volt Battery) that the smaller battery is charged by the HV battery but she said to ignore this because of the long period of storage.
Interestingly I asked for her to email me this response but she said they are not allowed to do that.

With the current used car prices. Sell it and order a new one. The new one should arrive in aprox 6 months. ;-)

Grandie · 05-18-2022, 09:46 PM

So...I've a 4 month 'new' 2022 X5 45e and will be storing it for 4 1/2 months in my garage. I called BMW Technical Support today (I was transferred to them from BMW Assist while in the vehicle) to inquire about the best way to insure that my HV and 12V batteries maintain their integrity/charge while in storage. The gentleman I spoke with did some research, called me back, and said that all that needed to be done was to keep the L1 charger plugged into the car. He insisted that the CTEK for the 12V battery was NOT necessary, as the HV battery would top off the 12V battery rendering a Trickle CTEK useless.
This seems to go along with most of the replies above, so fingers crossed that this advise is correct.

jad03060 · 05-18-2022, 10:45 PM

I wish you luck...my guess is you'll come back to find your 12vdc battery dead, and since that supplies the power to the computers, it will be a brick until you can either recharge it or replace that battery. You'll know if you have to open the driver's door with the key. You might want to make a copy of that info as to how to get to the actual lock since you won't be able to get in with the fob. Hope I'm wrong.

Grandie · 05-18-2022, 11:27 PM

Ouch, jad03060, I thought I was all set with that info. Certainly, I am trying to get the right information and avoid an issue upon my return. I'm going to call my Service Advisor tomorrow and BMW Assist/Genius again, but, OMG, my guess is that they'll both say something totally different. What's your take on this?

jad03060 · 05-19-2022, 01:53 AM

The HV batteries have a very low self-discharge rate so the system won't call for the EVSE to turn on to recharge them, maybe not for the whole six months. As I understand it, the low voltage electronics only run off the 12vdc system. Yes, the HV system has a DC-DC convertor to keep the 12vdc system operational WHILE IT'S RUNNING, but I do not think that will get turned on unless it's actually trying to recharge the HV system, and while that's on, it may try to bump up the 12vdc battery. There might be logic in there to turn the HV system on to deal with the 12vdc battery getting low, but if so, I've not seen it.

So, the question is this:
"Once the HV battery is charged, when will the HV system turn on by itself to recharge the 12vdc battery?"

While the HV battery is charging, the system is on, not in ready state, but probably on enough to deal with the 12vdc system as charging often requires cooling (and maybe heating if it's cold), and all of the control computers run off 12vdc, so it needs that system to be fully functional. But, once the HV batteries are fully charged, that HV system is turned off...no DC-DC converter.

Maybe I'm wrong.

You won't hurt anything by putting a battery maintainer on the jump start posts in the engine bay. Some people take their 12vdc battery out and have it sit on a maintainer, and when they come back, their HV battery is still fully charged.

Grandie · 05-19-2022, 07:10 AM

@jad03060: Thanks for your replies. To be clear, you are saying that I should keep the L1 charger plugged into the car the whole time AND connect a Trickle Charger (I'd get the CTEK that BMW sells) as well....correct? FYI, I am new to Hybrids and not at all techy, so much of the explanations are over my head. Also...is a 'maintainer' the same as a Trickle Charger???

jad03060 · 05-19-2022, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grandie

@jad03060: Thanks for your replies. To be clear, you are saying that I should keep the L1 charger plugged into the car the whole time AND connect a Trickle Charger (I'd get the CTEK that BMW sells) as well....correct? FYI, I am new to Hybrids and not at all techy, so much of the explanations are over my head. Also...is a 'maintainer' the same as a Trickle Charger???

That's what I'd do if I were going to store the vehicle long-term. Once the HV batteries are fully charged, you wouldn't necessarily need to leave the EVSE plugged in, but it won't turn on unless the vehicle wants it, so may never actually turn on. Won't hurt though. I'd use a surge suppressor on it being in FL where thunderstorms are common. I'm a big fan of a whole-house surge suppression at the panel, but if not, I'd put one on the L1 EVSE.

A battery maintainer might be a bit smarter than a trickle charger and be able to adjust its output to the needs of the battery. The 12vdc battery is an AGM, and you want a device that understands that as the fully charged characteristics are slightly different from a flooded cell battery.

Grandie · 05-19-2022, 03:20 PM

@jad03060: Thanks AGAIN! More questions....sorry....

1. Leaving the HV battery plugged in for 4 months: Will that create an issue in a garage that is not vented? FYI, Someone does open the garage door every week for a house check, but just to be sure there aren't any hazards involved if it's plugged in w/o ventilation otherwise.

2. Ditto with regards to leaving a Trickle/Maintainer plugged in all the time. Any issues?

3. What is an AGM? Sorry.

4. This is the Charger that BMW sells and that I have seen mentioned. By CTEK. Is this a maintainer? Is this a good choice? If not, what would you recommend. https://www.shopbmwusa.com/product/1...ATTERY-CHARGER

Again, apologies. I'm cluesless, but very appreciative of your help and guidance.

02-02-2022, 11:40 AM	#1
breslaw Enlisted Member 16 Rep 47 Posts Drives: x5 45e Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	X5 45e Long Term Storage Jessica at BMW finally got back to me regarding Long Term storage (6 month) on my new X5 45e. There is nothing in the manuals regarding this issue. She told me to leave the HV battery at 100% but unplugged. Also I need to keep the 12 Volt battery on a trickle charger. I was confused and got different answers from people. The maintenance book says (under subject 12 Volt Battery) that the smaller battery is charged by the HV battery but she said to ignore this because of the long period of storage. Interestingly I asked for her to email me this response but she said they are not allowed to do that.
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02-02-2022, 01:15 PM	#3
breslaw Enlisted Member 16 Rep 47 Posts Drives: x5 45e Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	She is a Genius in Concierge group. She said she spoke with a service engineer as she did not know the answer herself.
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02-02-2022, 01:49 PM	#4
jad03060 Major General 3166 Rep 6,806 Posts Drives: X5 45e Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: NH iTrader: (0)	I think that the DC-DC converter that charges the 12vdc system only operates when the vehicle is plugged into an EVSE and is actively charging the HV batteries or is in the ready state. The HV battery will hold a charge for a long time so won't turn the EVSE on very often whereas, all of the other electronics in the vehicle that run off of 12vdc will drain that battery over time. If you keep the 12vdc system charged, the HV batteries should be happy.
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02-02-2022, 03:26 PM	#5
LogicalApex Colonel 2026 Rep 2,946 Posts Drives: 2020 BMW 530xe Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: Farmington, NY iTrader: (0) Garage List 2020 BMW 530xe [0.00]	Her instructions don't make logical sense to me. So I would proceed with extreme caution on them especially since she won't put them in writing. The HV battery will top up the 12v battery so you don't need a trickle charger. Since the HV system will keep the 12v system charged and the car has a lot of systems that can draw load from the car you can imagine that this will drain the HV battery over time. How much? I haven't tested it so I can't say. If your HV battery every reaches true 0 you'll need a new HV battery... If your 12v battery reaches 0 you won't be able to start the car... I would leave it plugged in, like the manual and BMW literature states, and not worry about it.
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02-02-2022, 04:18 PM	#6
jad03060 Major General 3166 Rep 6,806 Posts Drives: X5 45e Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: NH iTrader: (0)	I may be wrong, but the HV system does not operate unless in the READY state, or while actively charging via the EVSE. So, since the HV batteries have such a slow discharge rate, it could be a very long time before they tried to recharge, which obviously won't happen if it's not plugged in. So, trickle charging the 12vdc system does make sense, since some low-voltage things ARE continually on and a depleted 12vdc battery will be damaged if it is discharged too much, especially if it gets cold out while that's happening (the thing can freeze if it's depleted). You could pull the HV disconnect switch and remove the 12vdc battery and put it on a maintainer.
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02-02-2022, 04:31 PM	#8
LunaTheBlue Private 45 Rep 50 Posts Drives: 2021 X5 45e, 2003 M5 Join Date: Feb 2022 Location: Indiana iTrader: (0)	I stored my 45e in my garage for 6 months. I parked it with a full battery and a full tank of fuel. I also lifted it onto jack stands (prevents flat spotting on tires). The car’s electronics will go into a deep sleep state - the electronics stopped responding to the MyBMW app after about 30 days of sitting. I could no longer get updates or lock/unlock remotely. When I had a friend check my cars, he unlocked it with the key and the 45e finally updated in the MyBMW app and I could lock / unlock remotely. Then after another 30 days it stopped updating again. I left it connected to my ChargePoint L2 charger and connected a CTEK charger for the 12V battery to the terminals under the hood. If you use a “smart” 12V charger it will condition the 12V battery as needed while in storage. As for the L2 charger, when I returned home and reviewed the ChargePoint’s logs, the 45e never pulled a charge in the 6 months I was gone. That tells me the HV battery won’t do anything while in storage state - it relies on the 12V battery like any other vehicle sitting in storage. If the HV battery was doing anything at all, it would’ve signaled the EVSE to charge at some point and I would’ve seen a log of that activity.
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02-02-2022, 04:40 PM	#9
jad03060 Major General 3166 Rep 6,806 Posts Drives: X5 45e Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: NH iTrader: (0)	The HV batteries have a very low self-discharge rate. The 12vdc one does not, and even just sitting there will start to lose charge. I'd put a smart charger on the 12vdc battery, and probably leave it plugged into the EVSE, but that may not be necessary. It sounds like my supposition is correct...the DC-DC power supply does not get turned on just from sitting there, or maybe in the above case, because it saw the 12vdc voltage level was sufficient, it never tried to turn on. STill don't know for sure. I'd follow their suggestion. I've had good luck with a Bosch battery maintainer. You want one that is smart enough to either detect or be put into AGM battery mode. The only thing on the Bosch unit is that if you lose AC power, it doesn't turn back on when power is applied. I don't know if that may be true for other models.
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02-02-2022, 06:10 PM	#11
breslaw Enlisted Member 16 Rep 47 Posts Drives: x5 45e Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	What I stress over is BMW not telling the user what to do in this situation. All of your responses are logical but different from one another and reaching a conclusion is like the luck of the draw. I don't know why BMW can't be specific. I have emailed the president of BMW USA but he has not responded. Only a call from Jessica with NOTHING in writing. Totally frustrating.
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02-03-2022, 11:31 AM	#13
breslaw Enlisted Member 16 Rep 47 Posts Drives: x5 45e Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	Which CTEK model, there are many? Is there a difference between a charger and a tender?
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05-18-2022, 09:46 PM	#16
Grandie New Member 6 Rep 19 Posts Drives: 2022 X5 45e Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: FL iTrader: (0)	So...I've a 4 month 'new' 2022 X5 45e and will be storing it for 4 1/2 months in my garage. I called BMW Technical Support today (I was transferred to them from BMW Assist while in the vehicle) to inquire about the best way to insure that my HV and 12V batteries maintain their integrity/charge while in storage. The gentleman I spoke with did some research, called me back, and said that all that needed to be done was to keep the L1 charger plugged into the car. He insisted that the CTEK for the 12V battery was NOT necessary, as the HV battery would top off the 12V battery rendering a Trickle CTEK useless. This seems to go along with most of the replies above, so fingers crossed that this advise is correct.
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05-18-2022, 10:45 PM	#17
jad03060 Major General 3166 Rep 6,806 Posts Drives: X5 45e Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: NH iTrader: (0)	I wish you luck...my guess is you'll come back to find your 12vdc battery dead, and since that supplies the power to the computers, it will be a brick until you can either recharge it or replace that battery. You'll know if you have to open the driver's door with the key. You might want to make a copy of that info as to how to get to the actual lock since you won't be able to get in with the fob. Hope I'm wrong.
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05-18-2022, 11:27 PM	#18
Grandie New Member 6 Rep 19 Posts Drives: 2022 X5 45e Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: FL iTrader: (0)	Ouch, jad03060, I thought I was all set with that info. Certainly, I am trying to get the right information and avoid an issue upon my return. I'm going to call my Service Advisor tomorrow and BMW Assist/Genius again, but, OMG, my guess is that they'll both say something totally different. What's your take on this?
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05-19-2022, 01:53 AM	#19
jad03060 Major General 3166 Rep 6,806 Posts Drives: X5 45e Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: NH iTrader: (0)	The HV batteries have a very low self-discharge rate so the system won't call for the EVSE to turn on to recharge them, maybe not for the whole six months. As I understand it, the low voltage electronics only run off the 12vdc system. Yes, the HV system has a DC-DC convertor to keep the 12vdc system operational WHILE IT'S RUNNING, but I do not think that will get turned on unless it's actually trying to recharge the HV system, and while that's on, it may try to bump up the 12vdc battery. There might be logic in there to turn the HV system on to deal with the 12vdc battery getting low, but if so, I've not seen it. So, the question is this: "Once the HV battery is charged, when will the HV system turn on by itself to recharge the 12vdc battery?" While the HV battery is charging, the system is on, not in ready state, but probably on enough to deal with the 12vdc system as charging often requires cooling (and maybe heating if it's cold), and all of the control computers run off 12vdc, so it needs that system to be fully functional. But, once the HV batteries are fully charged, that HV system is turned off...no DC-DC converter. Maybe I'm wrong. You won't hurt anything by putting a battery maintainer on the jump start posts in the engine bay. Some people take their 12vdc battery out and have it sit on a maintainer, and when they come back, their HV battery is still fully charged.
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05-19-2022, 07:10 AM	#20
Grandie New Member 6 Rep 19 Posts Drives: 2022 X5 45e Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: FL iTrader: (0)	@jad03060: Thanks for your replies. To be clear, you are saying that I should keep the L1 charger plugged into the car the whole time AND connect a Trickle Charger (I'd get the CTEK that BMW sells) as well....correct? FYI, I am new to Hybrids and not at all techy, so much of the explanations are over my head. Also...is a 'maintainer' the same as a Trickle Charger???
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05-19-2022, 03:20 PM	#22
Grandie New Member 6 Rep 19 Posts Drives: 2022 X5 45e Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: FL iTrader: (0)	@jad03060: Thanks AGAIN! More questions....sorry.... 1. Leaving the HV battery plugged in for 4 months: Will that create an issue in a garage that is not vented? FYI, Someone does open the garage door every week for a house check, but just to be sure there aren't any hazards involved if it's plugged in w/o ventilation otherwise. 2. Ditto with regards to leaving a Trickle/Maintainer plugged in all the time. Any issues? 3. What is an AGM? Sorry. 4. This is the Charger that BMW sells and that I have seen mentioned. By CTEK. Is this a maintainer? Is this a good choice? If not, what would you recommend. https://www.shopbmwusa.com/product/1...ATTERY-CHARGER Again, apologies. I'm cluesless, but very appreciative of your help and guidance.
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