[Westch21]

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Hi everyone,

Took delivery on the 2023 45e in late December and I love it so far! This is great forum with a wealth of information.

A couple of questions I have been thinking about:


(1) On longer trips that will be outside the electric range and are at highway speeds, what driving mode do people think is the most ideal? The thing I am most concerned about is when the EV battery runs down, necessitating need for the ICE when it is ice "cold" and I am going 60-65 mph. The owners manual advocates "Start driving right away, but at moderate RPM. Is there technology on the car that begins to "transition" to the ICE from EV as the ranges runs down below the 3-5 mile range, lessening the concern for a sudden load on the ICE if you are in Hybrid? We drive mostly Hybrid or Sport (because I am in the break-in period). Is an Adaptive driving mode better in those circumstances? Since I am in the break-in period, I am a little more sensitive to this.

(2) On the 3.0L turbo, what are people doing for a cool down period? I believe that water now cools the turbo after the car is off but do you still take a precaution and let the car idle a 1-2 minutes to ensure the turbo is getting cooled down sufficiently enough?

Thanks,

BT

[-Vanguard-]

Unless you were running the car hard for a while before turning it off you dont need to worry about coking the turbo.

The X6M solves this by running the fan for 1-5 mins after shutting off, but thats a TT V8 in with the turbos in the middle of the V soaking up heat.

[nZtiZia]

don’t overthink it. let the vehicle do its thing.

1) Hybrid and Adaptive give similar efficiency results, but Adaptive will take into account your driving style. Hybrid Eco Pro takes away regenerative coasting (if retirements are met), which can give you more overall miles traveled. these modes benefit from anticipative driving when a destination address is entered in the NAV

2) there’s a break-in period for a reason. when the vehicle transitions from electric to ICE, just don’t go over 4500rpm or 100mph. it’s all in the manual. don’t worry about it being “cold”. it’s built more robust than its 40i sibling and literally warms up in under 2 minutes of running.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

don’t overthink it. let the vehicle do its thing.

1) Hybrid and Adaptive give similar efficiency results, but Adaptive will take into account your driving style. Hybrid Eco Pro takes away regenerative coasting (if retirements are met), which can give you more overall miles traveled. these modes benefit from anticipative driving when a destination address is entered in the NAV

2) there’s a break-in period for a reason. when the vehicle transitions from electric to ICE, just don’t go over 4500rpm or 100mph. it’s all in the manual. don’t worry about it being “cold”. it’s built more robust than its 40i sibling and literally warms up in under 2 minutes of running.

This part isn't accurate. Engine is the same, no more or less robust. The 2 minutes you observed, it is the coolant temp. Very easily to raise coolant by blocking off coolant passage to radiator. For oil, it take a good 15 minutes of continuous driving to get to operation temp. There is no way to raise it quickly because you need to raise the entire oil volume's temperature which mean's entire engine block's temperature as well. In the performance gauge screen, you can see oil temp. 100C/212F is about where oil needs to be. You can watch how long it take there.

For OP, definitely don't need to worry about swarming up in normal usage. On highway speed, even at 80MPH, EV switching to ICE, it will operate at 2500rpm only, very mild condition. On the shut down side, as Vangard said, it is only meaningful to have cool down timer if you push the car very hard (say operation in redline zone for 15 minutes on a track event) before that.

[nZtiZia]

when I said “more robust”, I’m speaking of components, not along the lines of tuning or modified engine layout. one example I recall from an article states the starter motor in the BMW PHEV is upgraded

[eelnoraa]

Starter is the EV motor, right? The rest is the engine are the same. Block, head, crank, cam, piston …..

Sure EV motor will be a lot more robust than starter for cars with ASS.

[mediopogi]

In Electric or Hybrid mode the right side of the instrument seems to be a power meter from 0-100%. Since I’m still on the break-in period, I really didn’t like how the meter would jump up to 60-80% when it wakes up the ICE when additional power is needed and without knowing what the engine rpm is is running at.

What I’ve learned to do is anticipate the areas( freeway entrances and junctions) that will require power for merging and passing. what I usually do is I manually shift the lever to the left to wake the engine maybe 1/4-1/2 mile before I reach those areas to get the motor oil circulated. I run it for maybe 5 miles to get the ICE warmed up and ensure the condensation in the exhaust is gone then I switch back to electric for cruising. This is too much thinking but I only plan to do this during break-in.

[jad03060]

The engine doesn't use the starter motor when already moving and it decides it needs the ICE to run...it uses the EV motor in tow-start mode (sort of like popping the clutch on a manual transmissioned vehicle). From stop, it does use a more traditional starter motor run by the 12vdc system. The springs and dampers on the 45e version of the engine used in starting are different than those on the 40i version to account for how the engine is more typically started, so in that view, it is more robust than the 40i...IOW, it's engineered to handle the way the PHEV's ICE comes into play.

During use, the PHEV may need to cool the batteries and EV motor, and some of that heat might end up helping the ICE...I think I read that somewhere, if it needed to be engaged.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by mediopogi

In Electric or Hybrid mode the right side of the instrument seems to be a power meter from 0-100%. Since I’m still on the break-in period, I really didn’t like how the meter would jump up to 60-80% when it wakes up the ICE when additional power is needed and without knowing what the engine rpm is is running at.

What I’ve learned to do is anticipate the areas( freeway entrances and junctions) that will require power for merging and passing. what I usually do is I manually shift the lever to the left to wake the engine maybe 1/4-1/2 mile before I reach those areas to get the motor oil circulated. I run it for maybe 5 miles to get the ICE warmed up and ensure the condensation in the exhaust is gone then I switch back to electric for cruising. This is too much thinking but I only plan to do this during break-in.

if you have M Sport with shift paddles (I don’t know if xLine has paddles), clicking once on the paddle will activate the ICE (if in Electric mode, it’ll also switch to Hybrid mode.) it will automatically deactivate the ICE and return to the previous drive mode (if applicable) fairly quickly, though.

I purposely ran Sport mode for every drive shortly after getting my vehicle. since my commute was short, it took a few weeks to break in the ICE.

[arRod1981]

Originally Posted by mediopogi

In Electric or Hybrid mode the right side of the instrument seems to be a power meter from 0-100%. Since I’m still on the break-in period, I really didn’t like how the meter would jump up to 60-80% when it wakes up the ICE when additional power is needed and without knowing what the engine rpm is is running at.

What I’ve learned to do is anticipate the areas( freeway entrances and junctions) that will require power for merging and passing. what I usually do is I manually shift the lever to the left to wake the engine maybe 1/4-1/2 mile before I reach those areas to get the motor oil circulated. I run it for maybe 5 miles to get the ICE warmed up and ensure the condensation in the exhaust is gone then I switch back to electric for cruising. This is too much thinking but I only plan to do this during break-in.

What "power meter" are you referring to? If it's located in the bottom far right corner, that's the charge level for your battery.

Also, you can see what the rpm is for the ICE in Hybrid. On the rpm gauge when you're in the blue zone that's the electric motor rpms, and when it's outside of that zone that's the ICE rpms. When solely on EV mode you'll solely see the EV motor rpms (think it only goes up to the 4k range), and none for the ICE as it's not running.

[jad03060]

When using the EV motor...the scale is percent of maximum power, not RPM.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by arRod1981

What "power meter" are you referring to? If it's located in the bottom far right corner, that's the charge level for your battery.

Also, you can see what the rpm is for the ICE in Hybrid. On the rpm gauge when you're in the blue zone that's the electric motor rpms, and when it's outside of that zone that's the ICE rpms. When solely on EV mode you'll solely see the EV motor rpms (think it only goes up to the 4k range), and none for the ICE as it's not running.

no, mediopogi is correct. the “tach” area on the right side of the instrument cluster is a power meter (delineated in percent) for Electric, Hybrid and Adaptive drive modes. only when in Sport drive mode is it a traditional tach showing rpm

you are correct regarding the blue and white zones, though. when the needle is in the blue, the vehicle is under electric power. when in the white, the vehicle is under ICE power

[FLYSWA]

Not sure of the gear ratios but I’m assuming that I can just drive the car back From the PDC in Sport mode with no problem doing 80 mph home. Should be about 450 mi drive. But I’d assume the rpm shouldn’t get above 3k at the most… does that sound correct?

[nZtiZia]

refer to the manual for the limits when breaking in. shouldn’t go above 4500rpm

[jad03060]

In top gear, the engine is running fairly slow. In sport mode, it may never shift to top gear, so out on the highway, in hybrid or adaptive mode, at speed, it will mostly be running on the ICE, so sport mode, unless you're running around town where your speeds are lower, will just eat up more gas.

The manual says not to exceed 4500rpm, 100-mph, or force a kickdown for acceleration during the first 1200-miles.

[arRod1981]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

no, he’s correct. the “tach” area in yer right side of the instrument cluster is a power meter (delineated in percent) for Electric, Hybrid and Adaptive drive modes. only when in Sport drive mode is that a traditional tach showing rpm

Thanks for the correction, and to be honest I am more confused as I haven't seen it displayed as a percentage. I am missing something and will have to look at the display later today for a percentage symbol or something.

[nZtiZia]

there’s no percentage symbol that I’m aware of. you’ll see hash marks for 5, 10, 20, 40, 60 depending on the size of the blue area as well as numbers (I believe the first is 20)

[fan25]

Originally Posted by FLYSWA

Not sure of the gear ratios but I’m assuming that I can just drive the car back From the PDC in Sport mode with no problem doing 80 mph home. Should be about 450 mi drive. But I’d assume the rpm shouldn’t get above 3k at the most… does that sound correct?

If you are talking about range, here are some info from my last trip:

LA to San Jose: Eco Pro, avg 95mph, almost empty tank (15mi range left) & empty battery (1-2mi range left) after 330mi

Trip back: Eco Pro, avg 85mph, 60mi range left with tank & 15mi range left with battery after 330mi

Please note that 45e has a smaller fuel tank: 18.2 gal vs 21.9 gal on 40i, therefore you will expect lower range in a no-recharged long road trip despite its a PHEV.

As for gear ratio, the setting is indeed different between 45e and 40i (details can be founded via Google). I notice that rpm@80mph is a bit higher than 2000.

If you drive average at 80mph in 8th gear (I don’t know if the shift logic in sport mode can do that), you should be fine reaching 400mi. But 450mi I’m really not sure.

[mediopogi]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

if you have M Sport with shift paddles (I don’t know if xLine has paddles), you can clicking once on the paddle will activate the ICE (if in Electric mode, it’ll also switch to Hybrid mode.) it will automatically deactivate the ICE and return to the previous drive mode (if applicable) fairly quickly, though.

I purposely ran Sport mode for every drive shortly after getting my vehicle. since my commute was short, it took a few weeks to break in the ICE.

I have MSport package. I got to try this. Thanks for the tip!

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by jad03060

The engine doesn't use the starter motor when already moving and it decides it needs the ICE to run...it uses the EV motor in tow-start mode (sort of like popping the clutch on a manual transmissioned vehicle). From stop, it does use a more traditional starter motor run by the 12vdc system. The springs and dampers on the 45e version of the engine used in starting are different than those on the 40i version to account for how the engine is more typically started, so in that view, it is more robust than the 40i...IOW, it's engineered to handle the way the PHEV's ICE comes into play.

elnoraao2 this is more specifically what i was referring to

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

elnoraao2 this is more specifically what i was referring to

That is a rumor that was started a few years ago but no one has been able to show documentation that it is true as far as I know. It would make sense if it was but nothing shows it is. Maybe we just don't have access to the docs.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

elnoraao2 this is more specifically what i was referring to

Reagardign this " The springs and dampers on the 45e version of the engine used in starting are different than those on the 40i version to account for how the engine is more typically started, so in that view, it is more robust than the 40i"

I wonder what springs and dampers in side the engine we are talking about. The main place with spring is the head, where the valve chain is. This part has the most moving parts. But there is no slacks on these parts either. They are driven by cam, which is driven by timing chain. Usually the cam can be made more robust by using forging instead of casting, but B58 is already forge. To get even better, the process is called billet, super expansive, only on race car or exotic car. 45e isn't nearly expansive enough to get billet parts. And there is no dampers here.

The bottom of the engine is just block, piston, rod, crank. No springs here, and definitely no dampers here. None of these can be easily change to get more "robust". Geometry cannot change. Material change as described above, will get very expansive.

So I wonder what spring, what dampers are we talking about which they can make an engine more robust. And robust from what aspect? higher compression, higher boost, more tolerable to cold operation (this is also likely limited by the turbo). If robustness is about the tow start by EV motor, my argument with modern transmission, all drive train shock is no where near stress a what manual transmission can do to the engine/drive train. And even if this is the design, the improvement is probably at the flywheel area, and there are spring and dampers there. And no, this does NOT make the engine more robust again temperature, probably more robust again drive train shock only.