[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by SwissBeemer

Whether people should be able to enjoy their luxury and have the rest of society carry the increased cost & resource burden is usually at the heart of these discussions.

We shouldn't get political but that is generally a fallacy in the argument. Those with the "luxury" usually pay more in taxes, fees, etc. to support not only their resource use but others.

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by SwissBeemer

They weigh a lot more than smaller cars. The X5 50e has 2.5t whereas a say Peugeot 208 would be half that weight. Heavier cars = More road damage & more resources being used in both production and running it, that's just facts honestly.

Whether people should be able to enjoy their luxury and have the rest of society carry the increased cost & resource burden is usually at the heart of these discussions.

Jealousy certainly plays a part but there is also a true core to this argument.

Sounds like the problem is your roads and not the X5s who use them.
The roads here where we live in FL are considered some of the best in the US and are pounded 24 hrs/day by 80,000 lb tractors, conrete trucks, etc. and the roads do just fine. 5,000 lb SUVs are not your problem my European friend.

[SwissBeemer]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

We shouldn't get political but that is generally a fallacy in the argument. Those with the "luxury" usually pay more in taxes, fees, etc. to support not only their resource use but others.

I wouldn't necessarily call it a "fallacy". They also profit comparatively more off of publicly funded goods such as infrastructure, safety, etc. since their money doesn't appear out of a vacuum, isolated from these things.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle and I had this argument countless times, usually with the right-leaning political spectrum, and it always comes down to the fundamentals of left vs. right: Collective good vs. individual freedom which usually isn't something that could be "resolved" in a discussion so having an argument about it is futile.

I'll leave it at that.

Originally Posted by cobramite

Sounds like the problem is your roads and not the X5s who use them.
The roads here where we live in FL are considered some of the best in the US and are pounded 24 hrs/day by 80,000 lb tractors, conrete trucks, etc. and the roads do just fine. 5,000 lb SUVs are not your problem my European friend.

Our roads aren't necessarily broken (D/A/CH roads are in fact some of the best you'll find.) but they obviously have to be repaired more often the more and heavier vehicles use them, which costs more money than it otherwise would. There's a ton of documentaries around with people actually doing those works, scientists and the likes. It's a well established fact not really worth discussing.

I just grabbed the first acrticle that Google would spit out when googling "road damage vehicle weight": https://www.hagerty.co.uk/articles/o...e-environment/

And the roads can’t cope, as heavier vehicles cause them to wear out faster. We’ve known this since the 1950s when (maths alert) it was calculated that the change in damage to the road surface is proportional to the difference in axle weight to the fourth power. A two-tonne SUV would therefore do 16 times more damage than a one-tonne car.

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by SwissBeemer

I wouldn't necessarily call it a "fallacy". They also profit comparatively more off of publicly funded goods such as infrastructure, safety, etc. since their money doesn't appear out of a vacuum, isolated from these things.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle and I had this argument countless times, usually with the right-leaning political spectrum, and it always comes down to the fundamentals of left vs. right: Collective good vs. individual freedom which usually isn't something that could be "resolved" in a discussion so having an argument about it is futile.

I'll leave it at that.



Our roads aren't necessarily broken (D/A/CH roads are in fact some of the best you'll find.) but they obviously have to be repaired more often the more and heavier vehicles use them, which costs more money than it otherwise would. There's a ton of documentaries around with people actually doing those works, scientists and the likes. It's a well established fact not really worth discussing.

I think we should all drive our over indulgent SUVs off the nearest bridge for the "Collective Good".

[FIOSCH]

Originally Posted by Lionel Hutz

My takeaway is that the Euros are *really* picky about rear wheel steering.

Imagine a test drive by one of the well known US reviewers of a US registered 50e supplied by BMW NA equipped with IAS which the reviewer blithely proceeded to demonstrate and explain the performance benefits, effectively promoting it as a desirable optional extra that can be specified, when actually it’s not possible for a US buyer to do that. Then I think you guys in the US would have quite a bit to say and wanting answers about that wouldn’t you?

The point has already been made about IAS being a more significant feature in European driving, where there’s more tight manoeuvring to contend with, but bear in mind also that pre-LCI it was available in Europe as an optional extra on the 45e. So quite a few already have that on their existing X5s and naturally will have got used to the way the car drives with that and wanting the same on an LCI replacement.

[Heavyd]

Another argument we hear in Belgium regularly to ban SUV’s. Apparantly they are very deadly. Pedestrians have a smaller chance to survive a close encounter

Roads in Germany and Austria are very good. Crossing the border with Belgium again and it becomes clear what a shithole it is. And cars are a cash cow but it’s not used for the roads and they are built with inferrior quality.
In Germany you somtimes see signs by the highway with strassenschaden (road damage). Those highways are better than Belgian highways

Problem is the woke leftist society in Europe. It almost isn’t tolerated to earn a very good living… That means taxes aren’t high enough…

[Heavyd]

Originally Posted by FIOSCH

Imagine a test drive by one of the well known US reviewers of a US registered 50e supplied by BMW NA equipped with IAS which the reviewer blithely proceeded to demonstrate and explain the performance benefits, effectively promoting it as a desirable optional extra that can be specified, when actually it’s not possible for a US buyer to do that. Then I think then you guys in the US would have quite a bit to say and wanting answers about that wouldn’t you?

The point has already been made about IAS being a more significant feature in European driving, where there’s more tight manoeuvring to contend with, but bear in mind also that pre-LCI it was available in Europe as an optional extra on the 45e. So quite a few already have that on their existing X5s and naturally will have got used to the way the car drives with that and wanting the same on an LCI replacement.

My 45e had IAS, my 50e won’t have it. We’ll see how it goes. I can always leave my car in the middle of the street

I drive an anti-social car no?

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by Heavyd

Another argument we hear in Belgium regularly to ban SUV’s. Apparantly they are very deadly. Pedestrians have a smaller chance to survive a close encounter

Roads in Germany and Austria are very good. Crossing the border with Belgium again and it becomes clear what a shithole it is. And cars are a cash cow but it’s not used for the roads and they are built with inferrior quality.
In Germany you somtimes see signs by the highway with strassenschaden (road damage). Those highways are better than Belgian highways

Problem is the woke leftist society in Europe. It almost isn’t tolerated to earn a very good living… That means taxes aren’t high enough…

It certainly does not seem that the EU's direction is working well for society over there and it is not just the roads that have been busted up by the Big Bad SUVs.

[Heavyd]

Originally Posted by cobramite

It certainly does not seem that the EU's direction is working well for society over there and it is not just the roads that have been busted up by the Big Bad SUVs.

It’s a sinking ship. Too bad for my children but I will have kicked the bucket by then.

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by Heavyd

It’s a sinking ship. Too bad for my children but I will have kicked the bucket by then.

That is really a shame. We have been back to Europe a few times in the last couple years as my wife is from there and it is absolutely shocking to see how their open borders have destroyed many areas. Nothing like it was, so sad indeed.
SUVs are the least of their problems.

[Heavyd]

Originally Posted by cobramite

That is really a shame. We have been back to Europe a few times in the last couple years as my wife is from there and it is absolutely shocking to see how their open borders have destroyed many areas. Nothing like it was, so sad indeed.
SUVs are the least of their problems.

Yes we clearly schaffen das nicht…

[FredBa]

Funny, I used to live in Belgium way back when. The company I worked for gave me a fuel card that covered Europe and an E60 525d company car so we took a lot of road trips. Crossing the border from Belgium into France I remember it looked like cars suddenly shrank to half size.
Can't imagine living in Belgium now, taxes are borderline extortionate.

[SwissBeemer]

Wow didn't expect this to go off the deep end as fast as it did.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by SwissBeemer

Wow didn't expect this to go off the deep end as fast as it did.

I should have kept my mouth shut and followed my "we shouldn't get political" advice.

[six]

I’m overdue an upgrade but I’m holding off until IAS is available. I have had an X5 with it (current) and without previously. It absolutely makes a difference in urban driving and parking, makes the X5 feel like it’s a size smaller. Living and driving where I do I won’t be buying an SUV without it.

If BMW doesn’t hurry up I’ll be going Cayenne or Q8 as both have rear steering fully available (as does the VW Touareg )

[bono]

I am an European living in the US. I know exactly what is going on in Europe. Leftist in Brussels are destroying Europe. The EU needs to collapse.

However, the US has similar problem. California, in particular San Francisco, is a great example of the collapse.

Originally Posted by Heavyd

(...)
Problem is the woke leftist society in Europe. It almost isn’t tolerated to earn a very good living… That means taxes aren’t high enough…

[volodp]

One thing that got me curious while watching this video was the combined range demonstrated. Over 900 km (600 miles?). How is that possible? Does 50e have a larger tank than 45e? Because my 45e never did more than 700 km on a single tank even when fully charged on departure and driven very efficiently in Hybrid Eco Pro. Can’t imagine 50e being that more efficient and larger battery capacity certainly doesn’t add extra 200 km of range.

[jad03060]

I've gotten over 800Km on my 45e on a long US interstate highway trip...the 50e has a bigger battery and supposedly, the ICE is a bit more efficient, too.

[SwissBeemer]

Originally Posted by volodp

One thing that got me curious while watching this video was the combined range demonstrated. Over 900 km (600 miles?). How is that possible? Does 50e have a larger tank than 45e? Because my 45e never did more than 700 km on a single tank even when fully charged on departure and driven very efficiently in Hybrid Eco Pro. Can’t imagine 50e being that more efficient and larger battery capacity certainly doesn’t add extra 200 km of range.

69L would give you ~770km @9L/100km plus another 100km electric range. I think for most people the range will be substantially lower but in Switzerland for example I could totally see myself doing 900km on a single tank + full battery as I would expect the 50e to do even slightly better than 9L/100km on the highways there.

[BMWFLYNN]

Save the politics for somewhere else

[biterror]

Originally Posted by volodp

One thing that got me curious while watching this video was the combined range demonstrated. Over 900 km (600 miles?). How is that possible? Does 50e have a larger tank than 45e? Because my 45e never did more than 700 km on a single tank even when fully charged on departure and driven very efficiently in Hybrid Eco Pro. Can’t imagine 50e being that more efficient and larger battery capacity certainly doesn’t add extra 200 km of range.

The tank is still 69 liters, say the specs. I noticed the same thing on the video.

[cobramite]

Originally Posted by SwissBeemer

Wow didn't expect this to go off the deep end as fast as it did.

Your remarks about our X5s ruining the roads, depleting resources, and ruining the environment were guranteed to get negative responses and blatantly political.
You started it and are now shocked by how quickly you got your desired reaction?