[finn123]

Hello community!

Has anybody experienced their X5 45e jerk on acceleration from standstill on electric?

Context - I have a 2021 X5 45e with 28k km on it. I had my gearbox changed about 15k km ago in December 2021 because of rough down shifting from 4th to 3rd gear, which was caused by metallic powder (or whatever it’s called. Basically the gearbox was eating itself). Right after that was swapped I started to experienced jerkiness on acceleration from standstill. It happened rarely and the BMW dealer couldn’t find anything suggesting to come back when it gets worse. It became warmer outside and i couldn’t experienced that problem - it was extremely rare. Now when it’s cold again, I started to experience this problem again - almost every morning, when the gearbox is still cold, I stop on a traffic light which is about 700m away from my home and the car may jerk very hard when I GENTLY press on the accelerator. It feels sometimes like somebody smashed me in the rear.

I went back to BMW (another dealer this time) and complained about the problem (as usual :\). I said them the gearbox was changed and now I have another problem. They couldnt experience the problem, said there are no errors and the oil level is fine. They promised to contact bmw factory and ask what they can do.

So I wonder if anybody experienced that. This really drives me crazy…

[Charles45e]

I have experienced similar jerks in electronic mode on my 2022 45e. If I take off brake paddle wait half a second and easy on the gas the jerk would go away.

Curious to know if someone else is experiencing the same.

[finn123]

Originally Posted by Charles45e

I have experienced similar jerks in electronic mode on my 2022 45e. If I take off brake paddle wait half a second and easy on the gas the jerk would go away.

Curious to know if someone else is experiencing the same.

You don’t use auto hold, do you? In my case it happens regardless of whether that’s enabled or not. Moreover, it happens only when the gearbox or whatever is causing this issue is still cold (I start the car, drive 700 meters and boom. Sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn’t. Now it’s almost 2 out of 3 morning starts)

[kjx]

Something about your driving style and the environment in which your drive appears to be causing premature transmission wear.

If you're not gentle with cars when their fluids are not warmed up to operating temperature, this can happen over time.

Or lightning struck twice and you're just unlucky. Only BMW can help with this so if they don't, I can only suggest selling the car.

[finn123]

Originally Posted by kjx

Something about your driving style and the environment in which your drive appears to be causing premature transmission wear.

If you're not gentle with cars when their fluids are not warmed up to operating temperature, this can happen over time.

Or lightning struck twice and you're just unlucky. Only BMW can help with this so if they don't, I can only suggest selling the car.

The problem is that I do drive gently. My odometer shows 28.5k km - 23k km were purely done on electric. The thing is that nothing change in terms of usage after the gearbox was changed, but it started to jerk occasionally

The goal of this thread was to know if anybody else had had the same kind of problem

[RJC]

I don't think it's possible to not have smooth acceleration in Electric only mode. Even if you step on it, the 45e starts slow and smooth then seamlessly switches to Hybrid mode.

Sorry about what is happening to you car. I hope you find a solution.

[nZtiZia]

I often feel a hesitation/delay around 25mph, but it goes away as I continue to accelerate. it's not an issue when going straight but only if I'm at those speeds while turning

[ST3]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

I often feel a hesitation/delay around 25-30mph, but it goes away as I continue to accelerate. it's not an issue when going straight but only if I'm at those speeds while turning

What else have you noticed/experienced that is not smooth or unusual compared to traditional vehicles(hopefully other BMWs)?

Some of us have had limited test drive time with the 45e. This thread is the first indication/mention I've seen about issues with drivetrain.

Thanks

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by ST3

What else have you noticed/experienced that is not smooth or unusual compared to traditional vehicles(hopefully other BMWs)?

Some of us have had limited test drive time with the 45e. This thread is the first indication/mention I've seen about issues with drivetrain.

Thanks

I don't feel my MY21 45e has a drivetrain problem. since my work commute speeds are between 25-55mph, I feel this hesitation a lot because I'm in the particular situation a lot. I don't feel this hesitation at all on my ICE-only MY20 540i. after the new MY23 530e arrives in a few months, I'll be able to directly compare if it's common in BMW's electric drivetrain across different models.

first you've seen? these might be interesting reads to you:

Drivetrain Malfunction 2021 X5 45e - A Horrifying Experience https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1807656

45e Drivetrain Malfunction -- Reduced Engine Performance https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1892863

My 45e is dead and BMWNA is buying back, need to order a new one. What is fastest? https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1959761

[finn123]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

I often feel a hesitation/delay around 25-30mph, but it goes away as I continue to accelerate. it's not an issue when going straight but only if I'm at those speeds while turning

I can’t say I feel that. In my case everything is smooth and stable except that bloody jerk problem that happens only once in the mornings

[kjx]

Originally Posted by finn123

I can't say I feel that. In my case everything is smooth and stable except that bloody jerk problem that happens only once in the mornings

Have you owned other BMWs with ZF8 transmissions?

While the peculiarity is that here it is a 45e, something these transmissions do as they age (like 40-50k miles) is have a jerky first shift in the morning when cold - like the engine revs but the transmissions not engaged and then suddenly it engages. You may get it earlier depending how the transmission's been experiencing wear. It's surprising that it's happening on a hybrid though.

I don't have any issues with my 45e. Because the transmission is still engaged and the electric motor's torque is not perfectly flat, there is a speed range in the middle on the way to 60 where if you're flooring in electric-only mode, the car feels like it's running out of peak power before a gear shift and then it's able to catch its breath and power up further into higher speeds beautifully. The performance from 65 mph to 80 mph-ish in electric-only mode can be very variable based on slope of road, temperature, prior load on battery and motor, etc. I just about never use it exclusively above 50 mph other than "just because".

[finn123]

Originally Posted by kjx

Have you owned other BMWs with ZF8 transmissions?

While the peculiarity is that here it is a 45e, something these transmissions do as they age (like 40-50k miles) is have a jerky first shift in the morning when cold - like the engine revs but the transmissions not engaged and then suddenly it engages. You may get it earlier depending how the transmission's been experiencing wear. It's surprising that it's happening on a hybrid though.

I don't have any issues with my 45e. Because the transmission is still engaged and the electric motor's torque is not perfectly flat, there is a speed range in the middle on the way to 60 where if you're flooring in electric-only mode, the car feels like it's running out of peak power before a gear shift and then it's able to catch its breath and power up further into higher speeds beautifully. The performance from 65 mph to 80 mph-ish in electric-only mode can be very variable based on slope of road, temperature, prior load on battery and motor, etc. I just about never use it exclusively above 50 mph other than "just because".

I had 740Le G12 that didn’t have any problems. I had my old gearbox on the current X5 45e that didn’t have the problem with jerking in the mornings, but then the new gearbox started to do that RIGHT AFTER it was swapped to a new one. That happened about twice a month. Now it happens 3-5 times a week. And the dealer who changed the gearbox said - oh that’s ok. I’ve been there 3 times. And that’s not ok. It feels like somebody smashed in the rear. It’s really strong. I used to drive a rental 530e and 330e - sometimes acceleration from standstill is not perfectly smooth, but I didn’t feel any hard jerks as my car does. Now I changed my dealer in a hope that they can do something. But they didn’t (surprise), but promised to contact bmw factory.

And btw I’m still on 11/2021 sw. on my request to update the software in a hope that the problem is fixed the previous dealer answered with a denial

[kjx]

Originally Posted by finn123

I had 740Le G12 that didn't have any problems. I had my old gearbox on the current X5 45e that didn't have the problem with jerking in the mornings, but then the new gearbox started to do that RIGHT AFTER it was swapped to a new one. That happened about twice a month. Now it happens 3-5 times a week. And the dealer who changed the gearbox said - oh that's ok. I've been there 3 times. And that's not ok. It feels like somebody smashed in the rear. It's really strong. I used to drive a rental 530e and 330e - sometimes acceleration from standstill is not perfectly smooth, but I didn't feel any hard jerks as my car does. Now I changed my dealer in a hope that they can do something. But they didn't (surprise), but promised to contact bmw factory.

And btw I'm still on 11/2021 sw. on my request to update the software in a hope that the problem is fixed the previous dealer answered with a denial

You can offer to pay for the software upgrade "labor" time yourself. You can also request that a transmission adaptations reset is done at your cost. Maybe even a transmission fluid change depending on how much this bothers you.

It's possible your new transmission has problems if none of these do anything for you. Getting BMW to acknowledge that may be difficult - your best recourse in the end may be to just trade it in for a brand new car if you exhaust all other options.

Also it may be worth noting that warranty replacements for engines and transmissions may be "remanufactured" parts. It is possible the quality of that work or the quality of the transmission replacement job at the dealer may have been subpar.

Some other questions:
1. If you start your car in sport mode, with gearshift to the left so the engine is running at standstill, and you let the car warm up before you set off, do you notice the issue?
2. If you drive smoothly (highway) for extended durations (half an hour) before parking for the day, do you notice any difference the next morning?
3. What are the ambient temperatures where you are in the morning?
4. Is your general driving city-based with stop and go? Or include highways with extended cruising?

[finn123]

Originally Posted by kjx

You can offer to pay for the software upgrade "labor" time yourself. You can also request that a transmission adaptations reset is done at your cost. Maybe even a transmission fluid change depending on how much this bothers you.

It's possible your new transmission has problems if none of these do anything for you. Getting BMW to acknowledge that may be difficult - your best recourse in the end may be to just trade it in for a brand new car if you exhaust all other options.

Also it may be worth noting that warranty replacements for engines and transmissions may be "remanufactured" parts. It is possible the quality of that work or the quality of the transmission replacement job at the dealer may have been subpar.

Some other questions:
1. If you start your car in sport mode, with gearshift to the left so the engine is running at standstill, and you let the car warm up before you set off, do you notice the issue?
2. If you drive smoothly (highway) for extended durations (half an hour) before parking for the day, do you notice any difference the next morning?
3. What are the ambient temperatures where you are in the morning?
4. Is your general driving city-based with stop and go? Or include highways with extended cruising?

1) will try. But it can sometimes happen after I’ve already driven electric for about 1km, stop for 5-7 minutes (the car stays in the ready state), drive again until my traffic light and then feel it jerk after starting to drive. I’ll try with engine running tomorrow
2) doesn’t make a difference. I drive about 50-60km in the evenings in purely electric sometimes, but the car may still do the same in the morning.
3) about 5 C
4) city + 5-7 km highway and then city again.

[finn123]

Originally Posted by kjx

Some other questions:
1. If you start your car in sport mode, with gearshift to the left so the engine is running at standstill, and you let the car warm up before you set off, do you notice the issue?

I tried that during the last two mornings
1) first morning - started the engine right from the parking lot, drove to the first traffic light (about 700m) with the engine running. The engine kept running while I was waiting for the green light. No jerk observed during acceleration from standstill. Then I switched back to electric. Stopped on a second traffic light, felt mild jerk on acceleration from standstill.
2) second morning - didn’t start the engine, but drove to the first traffic light (about 700m) in the electric mode. Engaged the engine and started to drive when the light turned green - no jerk observed. Switched back to electric, stopped on the next traffic light. Again! Felt mild jerk on acceleration from standstill.

What’s also interesting is that when the car is cold and I stop the car, I can feel like a gear change even though the car has already been stopped. That can be observed only for the first a couple of kms. Once that disappears, there is no jerk in electric mode either :\

[kjx]

Originally Posted by finn123

I tried that during the last two mornings
1) first morning - started the engine right from the parking lot, drove to the first traffic light (about 700m) with the engine running. The engine kept running while I was waiting for the green light. No jerk observed during acceleration from standstill. Then I switched back to electric. Stopped on a second traffic light, felt mild jerk on acceleration from standstill.
2) second morning - didn't start the engine, but drove to the first traffic light (about 700m) in the electric mode. Engaged the engine and started to drive when the light turned green - no jerk observed. Switched back to electric, stopped on the next traffic light. Again! Felt mild jerk on acceleration from standstill.

What's also interesting is that when the car is cold and I stop the car, I can feel like a gear change even though the car has already been stopped. That can be observed only for the first a couple of kms. Once that disappears, there is no jerk in electric mode either :\

You should share this with the dealer tech.

The problem appears to be with the engagement and disengagement of the electric motor into the driveline when cold. The electric motor is supposedly integrated with the transmission - in your replacement, do you know if the electric motor also got changed out with the transmission?

Acceleration from standstill in electric when cold causes a jerk (as in vehicle starts moving). One more thing to try is while stopped, when you would normally expect the jerk, keep pressing the brake and press the accelerator until you can feel the electric motor trying to pull the car against the brakes (a tensing in the chassis). While you do this and the vehicle is still stopped by the brakes, do you feel a jerk at any point? If not, while the accelerator is still pressed, release the brake (this will cause sudden acceleration - be warned!) - do you get a jerk then?

Also, dumb thing to check but you have auto hold turned off right?

[finn123]

Originally Posted by kjx

You should share this with the dealer tech.

The problem appears to be with the engagement and disengagement of the electric motor into the driveline when cold. The electric motor is supposedly integrated with the transmission - in your replacement, do you know if the electric motor also got changed out with the transmission?

Acceleration from standstill in electric when cold causes a jerk (as in vehicle starts moving). One more thing to try is while stopped, when you would normally expect the jerk, keep pressing the brake and press the accelerator until you can feel the electric motor trying to pull the car against the brakes (a tensing in the chassis). While you do this and the vehicle is still stopped by the brakes, do you feel a jerk at any point? If not, while the accelerator is still pressed, release the brake (this will cause sudden acceleration - be warned!) - do you get a jerk then?

Also, dumb thing to check but you have auto hold turned off right?

I wouldn’t say I felt any jerk. It was just acceleration.

I got an answer from bmw - they will code the car (update software) and change gearbox oil on Thursday. Let’s see

[jad03060]

Since the throttle on most modern BMWs is by wire...if you're pressing the brakes does the engine actually start to run faster? I know that running around in a snow-covered parking lot, you can floor the accelerator, and the engine essentially stays near idle as it senses the wheels slipping, so the computer is controlling the throttle...I'd expect it would do the same when you had the brakes pressed...there'd be no reason to increase engine RPMs.

[finn123]

Originally Posted by jad03060

Since the throttle on most modern BMWs is by wire...if you're pressing the brakes does the engine actually start to run faster? I know that running around in a snow-covered parking lot, you can floor the accelerator, and the engine essentially stays near idle as it senses the wheels slipping, so the computer is controlling the throttle...I'd expect it would do the same when you had the brakes pressed...there'd be no reason to increase engine RPMs.

It actually tries to move the car, but brakes don’t let it go.

[finn123]

So I had my car serviced last Thursday - they refilled oil to the right level (this is still unclear to me as it was said that the oil level was correct before), updated software and performed an adaptive drive which took 42km. The gearbox behaves good. I haven’t noticed any jerks so far.

[finn123]

it didn’t help in the end. The car didn’t jerk for a couple of days and started to do that again today morning :\ reported back to dealer. They will contact bmw factory for further instructions

[eelnoraa]

My 45e has only 3K miles so far. I don't think I have stand still jerking, but I sure can detect less than smooth shifting from 1st to 2nd, and sometime from 2nd to 3rd, using EV mode, and relatively gentle on paddle. I don't remember if this is the case when I picked up tho. I will keep monitoring