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      05-23-2023, 12:13 PM   #1
javapro
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50e Battery Hold

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I've seen a few posts in different threads in this forum about 50e not having the battery hold mode. Well, the battery hold button is there in the center console as evidenced by the photos from new 50e owners. Also, the battery hold mode is mentioned in several places in the 50e owner's manual (see one such place in the screenshot below). So, how come people are saying it's not there in 50e?
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      05-23-2023, 12:21 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javapro View Post
I've seen a few posts in different threads in this forum about 50e not having the battery hold mode. Well, the battery hold button is there in the center console as evidenced by the photos from new 50e owners. Also, the battery hold mode is mentioned in several places in the 50e owner's manual (see one such place in the screenshot below). So, how come people are saying it's not there in 50e?
I think what people are saying is the ability to hold the battery at a preset % (say 30%) and not holding at current level.
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      05-23-2023, 01:43 PM   #3
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The big complaint is not being able to charge with the ICE like previous models.
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      05-23-2023, 01:54 PM   #4
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When doing trips I charged my battery the last 50 km on the highway so I could drive electric in the city. So this won't be possible anymore?

I thought that was just good to drive electrical and silent in the city.
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      05-23-2023, 01:57 PM   #5
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The distinction here is "Battery Hold" (50e) vs. "Battery Control" (45e). With Battery Control, the car would use the ICE to charge the HV battery up to the configured target % and then hold it there. With Battery Hold I believe the car will just maintain the charge, but will not actively charge using the ICE.
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      05-23-2023, 02:21 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Go FasTA View Post
The distinction here is "Battery Hold" (50e) vs. "Battery Control" (45e). With Battery Control, the car would use the ICE to charge the HV battery up to the configured target % and then hold it there. With Battery Hold I believe the car will just maintain the charge, but will not actively charge using the ICE.
Yes, you are right. I didn't notice that it's called battery control in 45e. So, indeed according to the 50e owner's manual "BATTERY HOLD is used to maintain the current charge level of the high-voltage battery. The electric range can be conserved in this way for a later point in the trip, for instance." And according to the 45e owner's manual "with BATTERY CONTROL, the electric range can be maintained and conserved for a later point in the trip or increased as needed" (the key word being "increased").
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      05-23-2023, 02:38 PM   #7
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If you set the battery hold to 100% on a full charge, would you then be able to drive in hybrid mode using the ICE only?
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      05-23-2023, 03:33 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RNorb View Post
If you set the battery hold to 100% on a full charge, would you then be able to drive in hybrid mode using the ICE only?
I assume you are referring to 50e since you mentioned battery hold. If so, then you can’t set it to any percentage. As mentioned above, 50e will maintain the battery at the current charge level when the battery hold mode is turned on. So, if you turn it on when the battery is fully charged, the car will keep charging the battery once it detects that the battery is getting discharged. Both 45e and 50e are hybrids and there is no way to force them to use ICE only as the high voltage battery is used for the HVAC functions as well for e-boost when you step on the gas.
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      05-23-2023, 04:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javapro View Post
I assume you are referring to 50e since you mentioned battery hold. If so, then you can’t set it to any percentage. As mentioned above, 50e will maintain the battery at the current charge level when the battery hold mode is turned on. So, if you turn it on when the battery is fully charged, the car will keep charging the battery once it detects that the battery is getting discharged. Both 45e and 50e are hybrids and there is no way to force them to use ICE only as the high voltage battery is used for the HVAC functions as well for e-boost when you step on the gas.
Well, if the battery is fully charged and you set the battery hold feature. Any use of the HVAC would cause the ICE to run, and any use of electricity for any other purpose would cause the ICE to run (both to keep the battery fully charged)..so wouldn't that mean the ICE would be running virtually all the time (yes 50e)?
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      05-23-2023, 04:36 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javapro View Post
I assume you are referring to 50e since you mentioned battery hold. If so, then you can’t set it to any percentage. As mentioned above, 50e will maintain the battery at the current charge level when the battery hold mode is turned on. So, if you turn it on when the battery is fully charged, the car will keep charging the battery once it detects that the battery is getting discharged. Both 45e and 50e are hybrids and there is no way to force them to use ICE only as the high voltage battery is used for the HVAC functions as well for e-boost when you step on the gas.
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Originally Posted by RNorb View Post
Well, if the battery is fully charged and you set the battery hold feature. Any use of the HVAC would cause the ICE to run, and any use of electricity for any other purpose would cause the ICE to run (both to keep the battery fully charged)..so wouldn't that mean the ICE would be running virtually all the time (yes 50e)?
what i think javapro meant by "forcing the ICE" comes from our ability to charge to a certain level at will on our 45e. if the current battery level is lower than we want it to be, we can activate Battery Control and "force the ICE" to run. on the 50e, if it's lower than what you want it to be, Battery Hold won't necessarily "force the ICE" but rather turn it on an off as needed to maintain the battery level when Battery Hold was activated. as DaveDBD put it: "Battery Hold prevents any usage from decreasing state of charge". it does this by cycling the ICE on and off as needed; 50e users can't "force the ICE" as the vehicle decides when to turn it on.
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      05-23-2023, 04:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RNorb View Post
Well, if the battery is fully charged and you set the battery hold feature. Any use of the HVAC would cause the ICE to run, and any use of electricity for any other purpose would cause the ICE to run (both to keep the battery fully charged)..so wouldn't that mean the ICE would be running virtually all the time (yes 50e)?
Yes but the electric motor will also run if step on the gas for example. Also, the ICE will also probably run as higher RPM as it will need to work more to keep charging the battery.
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      05-23-2023, 04:40 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nZtiZia View Post
what javapro means by "forcing the ICE" comes from our ability to charge to a certain level at will on our 45e. if the current battery level is lower than we want it to be, we can activate Battery Control and "force the ICE" to run. on the 50e, if it's lower than what you want it to be, Battery Hold won't necessarily "force the ICE" but rather turn it on an off as needed to maintain the battery level when Battery Hold was activated. as DaveDBD put it: "Battery Hold prevents any usage from decreasing state of charge". it does this by cycling the ICE on and off as needed; 50e users can't "force the ICE" as the vehicle will decide when to engage it.
Obviously I don't understand how it works under real driving conditions. It just seems logical to me that any use of the battery in my senecio would cause the charge level to go below the hold level, therefore the ICE would run most all the time.
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      05-23-2023, 04:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RNorb View Post
Obviously I don't understand how it works under real driving conditions. It just seems logical to me that any use of the battery in my senecio would cause the charge level to go below the hold level, therefore the ICE would run most all the time.
i don't think the ICE needs to run all the time to maintain the hold. it would kick in when the battery level dips below the hold's threshold then once it reaches the level again, stops running, etc etc.

does the 50e have an Energy Flow screen that would show this like it can on the 45e? in the case of the 45e, while in Battery Control to maintain a charge level, the screen showed the ICE cycling on and off. i would think the 50e behaves the same way.
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      05-23-2023, 04:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RNorb View Post
Obviously I don't understand how it works under real driving conditions. It just seems logical to me that any use of the battery in my senecio would cause the charge level to go below the hold level, therefore the ICE would run most all the time.
Nobody knows the algorithm for sure. We don't exactly know how fast the software would react to battery discharging but the ICE will definitely run more often and probably at higher RPM when the battery hold is on and the battery starts discharging.
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      05-23-2023, 05:36 PM   #15
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but in Sport mode ICE runs all the time. However, it runs at a higher RPM than in a normal driving mode. Will "sport individual" allow the ICE to run at a lower RPM? I'm thinking that on long trips it would be my preference to let the ICE run constantly, but not at the higher sport RPMs.
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      05-23-2023, 05:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RNorb View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in Sport mode ICE runs all the time. However, it runs at a higher RPM than in a normal driving mode. Will "sport individual" allow the ICE to run at a lower RPM? I'm thinking that on long trips it would be my preference to let the ICE run constantly, but not at the higher sport RPMs.
I don’t know about the 50e, but on the 45e in Sport Individual settings, if we set the engine to Comfort, the ICE does not run continuously. it utilizes the electric motor similarly to Hybrid mode, but I believe the higher baseline rpm is the same as when set to Sport when the ICE does kick in. note, the ICE may not idle at all when the vehicle is stopped (ASS turns it off).
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      05-23-2023, 05:57 PM   #17
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There is no reason for the ICE to run faster when in battery hold mode (the LOAD on the ICE would increase as it's needing to both move the vehicle while dealing with the batteries' charge)...the connection to the transmission is identical. But, the EV motor can be switched to alternator mode any time power for the batteries may be needed...that may or may not result in an increase of charge, as the power may essentially just go through the DC-DC converter to keep the rest of the X5's 12vdc systems functioning.
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      05-24-2023, 04:14 PM   #18
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Both features (50e and 45e) is overrated for a non-EU car IMO. Just.let the car do the thinking for you
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      05-24-2023, 06:42 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Ace View Post
Both features (50e and 45e) is overrated for a non-EU car IMO. Just.let the car do the thinking for you
The ability to be able to charge the battery (to 30% for example) while driving is something that I don’t want to lose

I think the new electric motor package doesn’t have the necessary hardware to sustain the load (0 to 100%) of charging batteries

I think is a step down. Functions should be added not taken off. Same with memory buttons and so many
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      05-24-2023, 08:25 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Di3s3l_Power View Post
The ability to be able to charge the battery (to 30% for example) while driving is something that I don’t want to lose

I think the new electric motor package doesn’t have the necessary hardware to sustain the load (0 to 100%) of charging batteries

I think is a step down. Functions should be added not taken off. Same with memory buttons and so many
I imagine that with the push towards lower emissions overall, they figure there is no point burning gasoline with significant loss of efficiency to recharge a battery above and beyond instantaneous current needs.
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      05-24-2023, 08:34 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mopaman View Post
I imagine that with the push towards lower emissions overall, they figure there is no point burning gasoline with significant loss of efficiency to recharge a battery above and beyond instantaneous current needs.
Emissions aside, on a long trip, all holding the battery at a specified level does is emulate a smaller battery which, on a road trip, would be a small percentage of the overall distance traveled. It makes it possible to later precondition or engage the HVAC for occupants at any time during the trip or the next morning where you can't recharge along the way.

While recovering the battery level is a big energy hit, holding it is only a minor impact.
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      06-06-2023, 03:41 PM   #22
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We just got back from a road trip from Toronto to New York and I wanted to share with you my first experience with the X 5 45e on an extended road trip.

Overall, the trip was great and we followed a pattern we have done before, ie. drive to the Village of Tarrytown north of NYC, on the Metro North train line. One day’s drive to Tarrytown with overnight stay, take the train in for two nights in Manhattan, and then back to Tarrytown for some time in Westchester and drive home the following day.

Here’s what I learned about the BMW 45e hybrid.

When we started the drive I chose Hybrid mode used the Battery Control function to keep it at the default level of 80%. I kept it there and "just drove car" in Hybrid mode. The car briefly started in electric mode and switched to gas as we hit the highway. In a short period of time the battery charge level dropped to 40 km (ie. 80%) and stayed there.

We made a few stops along the way, and occasionally I forgot to hit the Battery Control button again, but the regenerative capabilities of the vehicle quickly moved it back up to 40 km. When we arrived in Tarrytown, I switched off Battery Control and drove around in electric mode.

I was tracking the gas usage manually, but the car will do the same thing with some reliability on an extended drive and it registered that we averaged of 8.8 litres/100 km, which Google translated to almost 27 MPG US gallon. Not bad for a 5700 lb vehicle.
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