[matowi]

But to offset the above, personally I’d go with steel sprung car when given this option

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by matowi

Well, I'll admit my understanding of the physics is way to limited to be part of this discussion, just let me observe that:

1) Audi puts air suspension in their RS6 Avant, which generally is applauded for its qualities (and I've yet to see any major outcry from RS6 owners about unreliability of the system)

2) Porsche puts air suspension in their Cayennes/Macans, also the beefed up versions

Understandings of physics doesn't appear to be a prerequisite for this conversation, so don't let that deter you.

Neither of those are hardcore sports cars. RS6 is a high powered family hauler that in theory people will throw stuff in the back of. The ability to self level is a big benefit there, it allows a low rode height and also to lift up when loaded with people to avoid bottoming out. Audi also squarely occupies the comfort over performance segment, so they put air ride on EVERYTHING.

Macan gets air ride because it earned a reputation of riding harsh and poorly. So they stick air ride in to soften it out. It also is not a hardcore sports car, it's an oversized hatchback essentially. Cayenne has it because similar to RS6, it's a family hauler

You know what they don't out air ride in? The R8. The 911. The Cayman. Ferraris. McLarens. Corvettes. Vipers. Aventador, Huracan, even the hardcore versions of Urus get steel springs. There's a reason, and it's because they simply don't work as well for performance applications due to their construction.

[JoeAyalaM]

Certainly the X5 /X6 is not a hardcore sports car, it is not the vehicle for track driving, reasonable people use it for street and public road driving, so the air suspension comes into play as it does in so many other luxury cars and SUVs used in the same environment.

If I wanted a 911 or an R8... I would buy one, not try to get the X5 with the most components similar to those in the 911 or R8..

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

You know what they don't out air ride in? The R8. The 911. The Cayman. Ferraris. McLarens. Corvettes. Vipers. Aventador, Huracan, even the hardcore versions of Urus get steel springs. There's a reason, and it's because they simply don't work as well for performance applications due to their construction.

I wouldn't think you will see people arguing that they do, of course that has nothing to do with the conversation. That was just your deflection when you realized you were wrong.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

I wouldn't think you will see people arguing that they do, of course that has nothing to do with the conversation. That was just your deflection when you realized you were wrong.

I wasn't wrong at all. You can't just say "that's not how it works", with no evidence, no support, and claim you were right. It doesn't matter how condescending you are

[matowi]

Point is the same as always: when buying an X5 do your homework and test cars with different suspension setups. Your own bottom will answer better than anyone else the inevitable question “which is the best suspension to get”

That’s what many of us did. My bottom (and a few other body parts) told me very plainly to steer clear of the air setup. I’m NOT a fan of the softness in corners, etc.

[nZtiZia]

BLK.G20 what's the point of your continued rant claiming air suspension being inferior to steel springs? that was the first thing you posted in this thread.

BMW's air suspension design works very well on the X5 which is not a high performance race car, so all those negative points to say it's not worth getting air suspension on an X5 because you don't see them on serious race cars is ridiculous

BTW you still haven't proved that you understand how air suspension works (only how air mattresses work).

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

I wasn't wrong at all. You can't just say "that's not how it works", with no evidence, no support, and claim you were right. It doesn't matter how condescending you are

Are you kidding? Every article out there supports the system operating the way we are describing. Only you are saying it operates differently. Your one "source" was an advertisement for air bags and not an air suspension.

Perhaps you conveniently glossed over post #30. Maybe check that out and tell us why they are all wrong.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

Are you kidding? Every article out there supports the system operating the way we are describing. Only you are saying it operates differently. Your one "source" was an advertisement for air bags and not an air suspension.

Perhaps you conveniently glossed over post #30. Maybe check that out and tell us why they are all wrong.

*ding ding*

but to clarify, we're driving on air mattresses. did i get that right, BlkGS?

[matowi]

Gents… maybe agree to disagree and move on?

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by JoeAyalaM

Certainly the X5 /X6 is not a hardcore sports car, it is not the vehicle for track driving, reasonable people use it for street and public road driving, so the air suspension comes into play as it does in so many other luxury cars and SUVs used in the same environment.

If I wanted a 911 or an R8... I would buy one, not try to get the X5 with the most components similar to those in the 911 or R8..

Agreed, I think it's silly to pretend that even an x5m is going to be on track other than media events. That said, the dynamic advantage of steel springs still pay dividends on the street.

IMO, it comes down to road quality and preference. If you live somewhere with crap roads, air suspension will help with that because it's softer. Of you're someone who prefers a cushier ride, air makes sense. But if you're coming from a sports car background and want a stiffer ride and chassis, steel springs are still better.

I will freely admit that most people that just want a luxury SUV to drive are better with the air ride. But those people are also are probably better with a Lexus RX. When you go x5, you trade interior comfort and reliability for driving dynamics. And maybe you want some dynamics but not too much? I dunno, I don't try to understand why other people buy what they do, lol. I like steel springs because they're stiffer and respond properly for spring rate, lol.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by matowi

Gents… maybe agree to disagree and move on?

No, it doesn't makes sense to agree to false facts. Many people come to this forum for information and it is only useful to them if they get clear, accurate information and data. There is a time to just cut bait but we also do this for entertainment.

[PunsGalore]

Hm.. I'm still unsure if I should order it or not

[JoeAyalaM]

Originally Posted by PunsGalore

Hm.. I'm still unsure if I should order it or not

No wonder, with so many different answers.

If you can not go and try them out. Just follow the advice above, Steel for sport car feel, Air for luxury SAV driving. Trust me, they are both good.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by PunsGalore

Hm.. I'm still unsure if I should order it or not

both the 45e and 50e come standard with air suspension (i have the 45e), so i can't contribute any experience between that and steel springs. that said, for BMW to prioritize these vehicles in addition to the more luxurious X7 in receiving air suspension over their ICE-only siblings says a lot to maintaining ride quality.

it depends on your preference, driving style and most traveled road conditions as to what you decide to get, but it's clear air suspension prioritizes ride quality over performance.

[JoeAyalaM]

Also, if you are EVER driving it off road the Air suspension is much better for going over obstacles.

[PunsGalore]

I think I'll go without - I don't tow or go offroad, and the steel suspension is plenty comfortable while still being sporty enough. Plus cheaper cost and better reliability down the line. Thanks all!

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by PunsGalore

I think I'll go without - I don't tow or go offroad, and the steel suspension is plenty comfortable while still being sporty enough. Plus cheaper cost and better reliability down the line. Thanks all!

You can't go wrong with any of the suspension options so you should be fine. Enjoy!

[matowi]

So, to stir up the topic even more, and to add value to the entertainment aspect of this thread, let me share an observation that my M60i X5 on the adaptive M Performance Professional suspension with 22 inch non-RFT wheels rides better than a 2021 7-series I just sold, which had executive drive system (air suspension on all 4 corners with active anti roll bars) and rode on 21 inch RFT wheels

Now, for full disclosure, the precise measurement instrument I applied to arrive at the conclusion mentioned above is my very own bottom. It’s an entire science department that deals with the question of “what it means that a car drives better”. But that question wasn’t asked by OP, so I’ll stay mute on it for the moment

[beattiecj]

I’d strongly consider air suspension for towing, either ultimately are good.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

No, it doesn't makes sense to agree to false facts. Many people come to this forum for information and it is only useful to them if they get clear, accurate information and data. There is a time to just cut bait but we also do this for entertainment.

That's why I keep trying to make you realize that you're misunderstanding what progressive springs mean. Progressive means "as you push further, it pushes back harder". It does not mean that the spring rate rates stiffer as the bags have less air in them.

Think of filling up a tire. At 10 psi you can use a little bicycle pump to the fill the time easily. At 20 Psi it's a bit harder. At 30 psi it's noticably harder. At 40, you're struggling. At 50, forget about it. That's what progressive rate means, the more the spring compresses from nominal, the more spring rate it exerts. It's why if you pull back on an archery bow more, it shoot the arrow further, because you're storing more energy in the spring.

Steel springs can be progressive rate too, and most are. They do this by adjusting spring dimensions and spacing.

But hey, we can agree to disagree. Sometimes you can't explain technical things to people when all they can understand is "it costs more so it must be more good".

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

That's why I keep trying to make you realize that you're misunderstanding what progressive springs mean. Progressive means "as you push further, it pushes back harder". It does not mean that the spring rate rates stiffer as the bags have less air in them.

Think of filling up a tire. At 10 psi you can use a little bicycle pump to the fill the time easily. At 20 Psi it's a bit harder. At 30 psi it's noticably harder. At 40, you're struggling. At 50, forget about it. That's what progressive rate means, the more the spring compresses from nominal, the more spring rate it exerts. It's why if you pull back on an archery bow more, it shoot the arrow further, because you're storing more energy in the spring.

Steel springs can be progressive rate too, and most are. They do this by adjusting spring dimensions and spacing.

But hey, we can agree to disagree. Sometimes you can't explain technical things to people when all they can understand is "it costs more so it must be more good".

Please take some time to read the information provided in this thread and other sources. You are totally off the mark as to how the systems operate.