09-10-2019, 06:48 PM | #23 |
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Batteries - No!
Hydrogen Fuel Cell - Yes! Why? Batteries - Not healthy, slow charging, poor range, bad for environment (from their manufacturing to the grid power generation needed to charge them). Hydrogen Fuel Cell - Healthy, fast refilling, good range, truly environmentally friendly. |
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09-10-2019, 08:13 PM | #24 |
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Hydrogen is being pushed by Japanese, Toyota and Honda are both on board for their home markets, not sure if there are similar government initiatives at other countries (if China is on board then all bets off, not sure it can take off quickly but least a whole supply chain will get developed further/quicker).
I mean for battery powered car I can at least pay a electrician $1k? To install wall charger (assuming you're not street parked..., even shit garage in nyc are start to get chargers) and at least for local I'm all good, and I can always charge overnight. how many hydrogen fueling station currently exist and expect to come online? I can't imagine the best option to refuel is go to a hydrogen station 100 miles away every week... I mean given time anything can happen, but at least for now the battery setup is an easier option |
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09-11-2019, 08:55 AM | #26 | ||
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It's worth emphasizing that, as noted in the writeup, the vehicle in this thread is still an EV. It just happens to use hydrogen as its power source.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell_vehicle Quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_Hydrogen_7 was not an EV. It was a hydrogen ICE vehicle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrog...engine_vehicle Quote:
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09-11-2019, 09:19 AM | #27 |
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So, what you are saying is they picked the wrong partner?
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09-11-2019, 10:04 AM | #29 |
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You are right, Toyota is betting on FCEVs not on BEVs. They are just biding time manufacturing a few BEVs in the coming years to be on the electrification stream, but that's temporary until they finish their hydrogen vehicle development. And for Lexus they will keep on the hybrid side until then. This comes from a good source inside Toyota.
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09-14-2019, 09:08 AM | #30 | |
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I think this technology is great.... all you need to sort out is the chain of H2 supplies.. |
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09-14-2019, 02:17 PM | #31 |
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Hydrogen Fuel Cell is a dead end - yup, that's my prediction.
I hope BMW would wake up and divert its resources elsewhere. Sometimes it may seem like a good idea to play safe and place bets in all options. But you get the most rewards to be bold and stop wasting time and resources in tech with no future. |
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09-14-2019, 07:42 PM | #32 | |
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09-15-2019, 09:13 AM | #33 |
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I don't think anyone can accurately predict what future transportation energy sources will be. Horses and coal come to mind, a couple of hundred years ago, when a gasoline-powered conveyence was unimaginable. So maximum diversity is a good thing. Note the timeframe though....
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09-16-2019, 12:27 AM | #34 |
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a little teaser by BMW perhaps?
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09-16-2019, 09:39 AM | #35 | |
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09-16-2019, 05:36 PM | #36 |
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I thought the whole hydrogen thing was dead. Whatever it takes to get off fossil fuel's and to offer cooler looking, better performing longer term reliable cars and SAVs!
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09-17-2019, 10:04 AM | #37 | |
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Yes.
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That's certainly a viable solution for right now, but that is still kicking the proverbial can down the road. The rationale for investing in hydrogen fuel cell technology today is to attempt to solve for the problem when ICE vehicles are no longer viable technology (they will eventually fall to regulatory constraints). When it comes to batteries vs. fuels cells - it does not have to be an either/or proposition. While it is true that battery technology continues to advance, bringing charge times down and energy density up, it is not absolutely clear at this point that such progress will lead to BEV replacements for every last one of today's ICE applications. For example, there is interest in FCEV solutions from the transportation industry, and such interest is likely to result in heavy investments over the course of the next decade. This could lead to proliferation of the technology, including more widespread infrastructure, and as costs come down, it may find its way into other sectors. It is too early to say for sure how the story unfolds, but I would suggest that there is a chance yet that some future BMWs or other consumer motor vehicles are powered by hydrogen. |
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09-17-2019, 03:00 PM | #38 | |
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I've bought all the EV's I have owned as daily drivers. I bought them because they are MORE convenient than a vehicle that needs to be filled up at a fuel station (gas, diesel, or hydrogen, or LNG)! I just plug the EV in when I get home (like my cell phone) and its ready to go with all the range I need for daily driving. You can't do that with anything that needs to be filled up with a liquid or gaseous fuel. (Unless/Until they figure out how to fuel vehicles at home with Natural Gas).
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09-17-2019, 09:46 PM | #39 | ||
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http://www.cngnow.com/vehicles/refue...g-at-home.aspx But we’re on a tangent, at best. The fact remains FCEVs don’t need to be refuel-able at home to be viable any more than ICE vehicles did. Just like battery BEVs don’t need to be able to go from NY to LA with sub ten minute stops every 400 miles to be viable. |
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09-18-2019, 03:57 PM | #40 | |
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Hydrogen powered vehicles require fill ups at stations just like ICE vehicles. They lose the advantage that EV's have of just plugging in at home. The biggest advantage my EV has is I DON'T have to visit any filling stations... I use my EV as a daily driver, and my ICE for long trips. Hydrogen doesn't offer me anything here...
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09-18-2019, 09:46 PM | #41 | |
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You’re mistaken. The purpose of my post (#37) was to explain why hydrogen fuel cells make sense for some applications. Automakers are investing into the technology now, so that it may be mature when it becomes necessary later.
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09-19-2019, 01:35 PM | #42 |
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Maybe hydrogen will someday end up being the fuel of the future. Great, I'm all for it! But right now, BMW is missing the boat on BEVs! Where is BMW with current electric vehicle technology?
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09-19-2019, 01:40 PM | #43 | |
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Moreover, there has been a great deal of coverage of BMWs upcoming BEVs right here on Bimmerpost, including the i4 and iNext which will both have well over 200 miles of range. There has also been plenty of discussion about how BMW clearly dropped the ball by not following up with more offerings after jumping into the EV game earlier than most manufacturers with the i3. So there is no need to rehash all of that here. |
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09-20-2019, 10:48 AM | #44 |
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Whether or not a FCEV pollutes less than a BEV depends on how the hydrogen is generated and how the electricity is generated. Currently a BEV is generally better for the environment due to how the majority of hydrogen is produced.
Here is a link to an article that is a few years old but I believe still is accurate. https://phys.org/news/2015-07-fuel-c...-friendly.html |
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