[TXSchnee]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

For my money it would be one of the Germans.
The model X is fine for the novelty, but I hate the interior and the way the look.

Germans for the fit, finish, experience and soul.

The $180k comment was about the Cayenne Turbo GT. I currently have a Cayenne E Hybrid, and it is a fabulous vehicle, but the Turbo GT is a bit outside what I would want to spend on anything without a 911 on it.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by FCX5

A colleague at work has a the new Model S Plaid. The interior is actually superb. He also has a pretty new, quote loaded BMW 750i and prefers the new S Plaid (says it's the best car he's ever owned). I got to sit in and go for a short drive and the seats are very comfortable and the interior is great unless one needs real leather and such.

Personally, I'd take an M5CS. Tesla would sell a lot of Plaids if they didn't come with the awkward Yoke. The fit and finish on the one I sat in wasn't an issue and the ride is also much better than one would expect…but I prefer some sound and like the M5 CS interior A LOT!

No one will sell a Cayenne GT for a model X

Agree with all of this: the "but Tesla quality is crap" is quickly becoming a myth, at least for the new Model S & MIC X/Y. Similar to Hyundai/Kia, Tesla's quality is improving every quarter and soon I'd expect MIC cars to be the equal of any major MFR ... and I'd also bet the new MIG vehicles will be uncomfortably close in quality to other Germans ...

That said, the yoke ruins it. It's the beaverface of Tesla: a ridiculous, unnecessary conceit, stubbornly defended with no reasonable defense.

With that, the Cayenne GT is likely the best of this bunch, but honestly it's kinda hard to tell based on the reviews ... it's self-evidently a great truck but is it $100,000 greater than, say, an X5M non-comp?

For me, I can't see how it would be.

[Tenac]

I'm a simple car guy, the Tesla has no soul.

[Casone238]

From all the cars here I'll choose the X6M if we looking at price for performance. Tesla is fast but has no soul. Porsche if had 180k to spend. Out of the bmw performance suvs I would go with a X5M over the X6M

[Chicane_]

Originally Posted by Tenac

I'm a simple car guy, the Tesla has no soul.

Teslas are an appliance on wheels. I respect them for what they are but I don't aspire to own one (or any EV for that matter).

[Germanauto]

On the topic of Tesla build quality, it has definitely improved. The latest Model 3 I rode passenger in was screwed together just fine. The materials are acceptable but there is very little wood and no option for real leather. Overall the interior definitely lacks the panache and overall feeling of quality that the Germans do, but a lot of people prefer the barren interior design ethos of the Tesla, convincing themselves it is "minimalist" and "modern." I think it's fine for the more basic Model 3s, but once you get to the Performance model the competition has way more impressive looking/feeling interiors for the price.

Anyhow, anytime I see a Urus I just can't help feeling something is missing. Maybe I am just so conditioned to freaking the hell out any time I see a Lamborghini because of how over-the-top they are. The Urus is attractive for an SUV, but it's still an SUV in a sea of SUVs. A proper Lamborghini however always makes a statement.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Chicane_

Teslas are an appliance on wheels. I respect them for what they are but I don't aspire to own one (or any EV for that matter).

God damnit what a garage you have.

[Neptune7]

Wonder if they will make an X6M CS that should be a more apples apples race.

[wesleyan92]

Originally Posted by Rockinryan2424

Absolutely hate watching these videos they are so drawn out to get to 10 mins and get more ad revenue it's so bad but what happened ? Lol

Same here; absolutely detest the cookie cutter production Matt does. Plus, his whole persona is super annoying for me.

[Al Pinã]

Originally Posted by CarMan77

The Cayenne GT is Monster! I know this is not the Porsche forum. But pictures wouldn't hurt.

I went to the Porsche TogetherFest at the Indianapolis Speedway a couple weeks ago and they had a gorgeously specced Cayenne Coupe 4S with a sticker of about $130K.

Super tempting but I'm already pretty sold on the Panamera Wagon at the moment.

Either way, that X6 is mighty impressive given what it was up against.

[Kstoff125]

Who makes the Cayenne again? Can't be Porsche, they only make one car…the 911

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

On the topic of Tesla build quality, it has definitely improved. The latest Model 3 I rode passenger in was screwed together just fine. The materials are acceptable but there is very little wood and no option for real leather. Overall the interior definitely lacks the panache and overall feeling of quality that the Germans do, but a lot of people prefer the barren interior design ethos of the Tesla, convincing themselves it is "minimalist" and "modern." I think it's fine for the more basic Model 3s, but once you get to the Performance model the competition has way more impressive looking/feeling interiors for the price.

Anyhow, anytime I see a Urus I just can't help feeling something is missing. Maybe I am just so conditioned to freaking the hell out any time I see a Lamborghini because of how over-the-top they are. The Urus is attractive for an SUV, but it's still an SUV in a sea of SUVs. A proper Lamborghini however always makes a statement.

Yup. I agree with pretty much everything you've said here.

[Lady Jane]

Originally Posted by Mani59

...

I'd like to get paid to do that. Heck, I would do it for free.

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by Chicane_

Teslas are an appliance on wheels. I respect them for what they are but I don't aspire to own one (or any EV for that matter).

Horses for courses, no car can hope to appeal to everyone. Looking at your cars, yes, I'd still take an M5CS over a Plaid because of the interior and as a daily driver. However, to say the Plaid is an appliance on wheels is a big exaggeration. The fact that it less than half a second slower than the M5CS around the Nurburgring (will almost certainly be faster with the software update to 200MPH top speed and track mode in the next month), can do 2.2 secs 0-60 and 9 second quarter miles over and over again and won Pikes Peaks invitational...which is a tough course to say the least. The M5CS looks faster and is more ostentatiously luxurious. But the Plaid is just faster - straight line and one a track etc etc. So, not saying it's better. But just saying it's an appliance doesn't make it so. JMHO


Lastly, the M5CS is a highly limited product (like most on this comparison other than the X6M), whereas the Plaid is a general model that will sell more in a month than the entire M5CS production run. Again, for those who will bring up the McDonald's analogy. The point here is that we are comparing a daily mass produced DD (Plaid) to a track focused limited production car (M5 CS). So it takes a lot to take on an appliance...I think Doug DeMuro got his review right on why people are excited by EVs now (not just Tesla). Yup, Tesla screwed up with the yoke, but not much else...

[d_bails86]

Wow I knew that GT was fast but didn't know it was that fast. Good race

[bobbis1]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

With that, the Cayenne GT is likely the best of this bunch, but honestly it's kinda hard to tell based on the reviews ... it's self-evidently a great truck but is it $100,000 greater than, say, an X5M non-comp?

For me, I can't see how it would be.

I think this is the crux of the cayenne range- marginally nicer/better than the x5 in most though not all areas. But WAY more expensive, options + dealer discounting differences skew the out the door price way beyond the side by side MSRP comparisons. My fully loaded X5m non comp after discount was the price of a fully specced Cayenne S!

[Chicane_]

Originally Posted by FCX5

Horses for courses, no car can hope to appeal to everyone. Looking at your cars, yes, I'd still take an M5CS over a Plaid because of the interior and as a daily driver. However, to say the Plaid is an appliance on wheels is a big exaggeration. The fact that it less than half a second slower than the M5CS around the Nurburgring (will almost certainly be faster with the software update to 200MPH top speed and track mode in the next month), can do 2.2 secs 0-60 and 9 second quarter miles over and over again and won Pikes Peaks invitational...which is a tough course to say the least. The M5CS looks faster and is more ostentatiously luxurious. But the Plaid is just faster - straight line and one a track etc etc. So, not saying it's better. But just saying it's an appliance doesn't make it so. JMHO


Lastly, the M5CS is a highly limited product (like most on this comparison other than the X6M), whereas the Plaid is a general model that will sell more in a month than the entire M5CS production run. Again, for those who will bring up the McDonald's analogy. The point here is that we are comparing a daily mass produced DD (Plaid) to a track focused limited production car (M5 CS). So it takes a lot to take on an appliance...I think Doug DeMuro got his review right on why people are excited by EVs now (not just Tesla). Yup, Tesla screwed up with the yoke, but not much else...

I've watched the Plaid video at the Nurburgring. All that can be heard is tire noise. EV's are mobility devices (very fast ones at that). Aside from objective performance statistics, I don't think one can directly compare them with any high emotion car with an ICE.

I feel like EVs appeal mainly to people who love technology more than they love driving.

[TheStanman]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Agree with all of this: the "but Tesla quality is crap" is quickly becoming a myth, at least for the new Model S & MIC X/Y. Similar to Hyundai/Kia, Tesla's quality is improving every quarter and soon I'd expect MIC cars to be the equal of any major MFR ... and I'd also bet the new MIG vehicles will be uncomfortably close in quality to other Germans ...

Unfortunately I don't think that's the case. New Model S interior design and materials are much nicer, but plenty of videos online showing serious quality issues. Doug Demuro's Plaid video is a good example. Significant paint issues, creaky door handles, etc.

My friend just took delivery of a Model 3 a month ago and has multiple fit and finish issues. Trim falling off, rattles, misaligned trim, etc. The worst part is how difficult it is to get the issues addressed.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Chicane_

I've watched the Plaid video at the Nurburgring. All that can be heard is tire noise. EV's are mobility devices (very fast ones at that). Aside from objective performance statistics, I don't think one can directly compare them with any high emotion car with an ICE.

I feel like EVs appeal mainly to people who love technology more than they love driving.

Amongst my colleages I notice the nerdy ones drive Teslas whereas the d-bags pull up in 911s, AMG GTs, Ferrari, M4, C63 AMG etc.

Teslas are objectively great. But there's a reason why they attract dweebs.

[cfm56d7b]

The entertainment value of CarWow head to head videos has few equals - love to watch them.

The only way to make these video attract more views is to add Trabant to the lineup and create a new category: left behind by N miles.

CarWow - keep going.

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by FCX5

Horses for courses, no car can hope to appeal to everyone. Looking at your cars, yes, I'd still take an M5CS over a Plaid because of the interior and as a daily driver. However, to say the Plaid is an appliance on wheels is a big exaggeration. The fact that it less than half a second slower than the M5CS around the Nurburgring (will almost certainly be faster with the software update to 200MPH top speed and track mode in the next month), can do 2.2 secs 0-60 and 9 second quarter miles over and over again and won Pikes Peaks invitational...which is a tough course to say the least. The M5CS looks faster and is more ostentatiously luxurious. But the Plaid is just faster - straight line and one a track etc etc. So, not saying it's better. But just saying it's an appliance doesn't make it so. JMHO


Lastly, the M5CS is a highly limited product (like most on this comparison other than the X6M), whereas the Plaid is a general model that will sell more in a month than the entire M5CS production run. Again, for those who will bring up the McDonald's analogy. The point here is that we are comparing a daily mass produced DD (Plaid) to a track focused limited production car (M5 CS). So it takes a lot to take on an appliance...I think Doug DeMuro got his review right on why people are excited by EVs now (not just Tesla). Yup, Tesla screwed up with the yoke, but not much else...

Tesla is not a car; it’s just a small electric train.
Fast in Tesla means nothing. Any motor connected to a battery si fast.
Again not a car.

On the other hand, M5 beats the shit of it while takes the gas from a tank, push it on an engine that sparks compresses and explodes, translates that result in power that is again send to a gearbox that sends the power to another components connected to the wheel.
Just think about the whole chain of components that do the work and still beats a frigidaire that literally has the mottors connected right to the axle ….
That is pure technology and true engineering!!!

Tesla is like making sex with an inflatable sex doll: there is no exhilarating movement, no noise, no excitement and no emotional orgasm…

You know… like an appliance….

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by Teutonic

Tesla is not a car; it’s just a small electric train.
Fast in Tesla means nothing. Any motor connected to a battery si fast.
Again not a car.

On the other hand, M5 beats the shit of it while takes the gas from a tank, push it on an engine that sparks compresses and explodes, translates that result in power that is again send to a gearbox that sends the power to another components connected to the wheel.
Just think about the whole chain of components that do the work and still beats a frigidaire that literally has the mottors connected right to the axle ….
That is pure technology and true engineering!!!

Tesla is like making sex with an inflatable sex doll: there is no exhilarating movement, no noise, no excitement and no emotional orgasm…

You know… like an appliance….

I think you forgot the part where the Tesla Plaid will easily beat the M5 on pretty much any road surface. It is also faster than the Taycan Turbo S etc etc. the Rimac Nevera is also an EV, but in another league…just because you move your arms really fast, doesn't mean you are running as fast. On the Plaid run at the Nurburgring, just switching the tires to stickier ones or adding ceramic brakes, with the current software would outperform the M5 CS.

Your post contained several factual inaccuracies. Also isn't the M5 CS a car one can't even configure or order on BMW's site…from what I can tell. The regular M5 probably doesn't stand a chance in any scenario against a Plaid until it's battery runs out (assuming the M5 range with a full tank is more than the Plaid). The long range Model S might be a better comparison against the regular M5.