[Resjudicata]

I'm the big camp of either x5, x7, GLS or GLE AMG. if it's not a BMW or Mercedes, why bother to drive it?

Porshe and Ferrari make race cars, not SUVs. and Lambo Urus is a fancy VW bug that my parents owned in the 60s.

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[M40i4me]

Originally Posted by psuibmw

Ugliest interior I have seen in a while

That steering wheel is butt ugly!

[M40i4me]

Originally Posted by rmorin1249

My wife is on her 3rd RX and wants a newer one but can't get by the front end.

Styling is over the top, too robotic!

[Marty in NY]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

Just to complete this, here is the US pricing for the GV80. The 2.5t starts at $48k and the top trim 3.5 around $72k

At first glance, I don't get it. Genesis said they are targeting the GV80 at the X5 market yet the small 2.5 four cylinder RWD model starts at $48,900. Sure that's about $10K less than where the X5 starts but at that trim level, its an apples to oranges comparison to the X5. It more likely an X3 competitor but is $7K more than where the RWD X3 starts.

Once you tack on the extras, by virtue of the AWD Prestige level trim, the price is $63,400, about $7K more than the AWD 2.0L X3. The 2.5L GV80, via their published specs, falls short of being an X3 competitor.

Their larger engine, the 3.5L six cylinder starts at $59,150 (AWD) vs the X5 (AWD) at $61,200. It tops out, $71,350 via the Prestige level trim with metallic paint vs the X5 at around $75K for a fairly high level trim.

BMW has proven performance over a lifetime of years, the GV80 is the "first year" model of a fairly new brand. I would have thought they would of priced it lower in order to capture some BMW marketshare. Possibly they will engage in deep discounting but on the outset, I don't see the logic. Plus, it appears they only offer set trim level pkgs as opposed to 'a la carte.

I suppose those who have owned the G05 and have had very negative experiences with the car and BMW's handling of their issues might look at the GV80 or buy one but that would be a pretty thin marketing plan if you ask me.

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[TurtleBoy]

^ Yes, there are a lot of discussions and arguments about the pricing in regards to comparing to an X5. While it is impossible to get an apples to apples comparison due to the features available in each, in general a comparable X5 would be in the $76-83k range. Given the discounts and incentives available and the history of Hyundai/Genesis dealers mainly not moving from MSRP with new introductions there will be no significant price difference between the two.

The 2.5 GV80 would not be a competitor of the X3, it is way above that in terms of size, luxury, features etc.

The pricing certainly was more aggressive than I thought. I think they may have gone a little overboard with it because of all the pre-orders that people put in. I think the last number I saw was over 5,000 US customers have given a deposit for one. It will definitely be a hot seller but many of those sales could be the 2.5 variant so it would compete more with the second tier (Lexus, Volvo, Acura, etc.) luxury suv players.

Edit: In regards to the above list, BMW does not offer Valet care so that is an extra for the GV80 and the X5 travel data is 3 years.

[Marty in NY]

I think I read 6,000 pre orders to date but would imagine some of those might drop out once the potential owners get to see and drive it and then contrast it against whatever else they were considering. From reading the Genesis info and doing a paper analysis, it doesn't appear to be a serious X5 competitor.

And I'll tell you what, I maintain a spreadsheet on cars I'm interested in. This entails features, options, pricing, 0-60 time, engine, weight, you name it, its on there. Once I get my short list, I go drive them and that's usually where they come in short. BMW may be having electrical issues, well heck, they always have but their mechanics are strong.

Other makes just don't get the tranny shift points right, their cars torque steer and turbo lag is prevalent. If you are a performance oriented person, once you drive the competition, you come away disappointed.

[stein_325i]

Looks like a nice vehicle to me. I enjoyed the G70 so the fact that Genesis is finally getting a design inside and out as well as switchgear that is less related to the regular Hyundai's is a big plus. I'll be sure to check them out when they are on dealer lots.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by Marty in Bgm

I think I read 6,000 pre orders to date but would imagine some of those might drop out once the potential owners get to see and drive it and then contrast it against whatever else they were considering. From reading the Genesis info and doing a paper analysis, it doesn't appear to be a serious X5 competitor.

It will be interesting to see how things play out. Of course it is subjective but from the pictures it will be up there with the best looking exteriors in the market segment. I'm not a fan of the interior are at all but as your poll shown, it appeals to many people. I don't think the engine/tranny will be anywhere near as good as the 40i but early reviews seem to say it will be close.

There are two areas that I think will really hurt it, one being the way they package options and not allowing customers to choose the features they like. The other is the dealers, currently all but a handful are selling the Genesis models out of a Hyundai building and they are not providing the sales experience people in the segment are looking for.

[SHARMAATL]

POPCORN ALERT:

If anyone wants to see the GV80 vs. X5 debate with more Genesis folks, grab your popcorn and head over to the Genesis pricing thread:

https://genesisowners.com/genesis-fo...evealed.29399/

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by SHARMAATL

POPCORN ALERT:

If anyone wants to see the GV80 vs. X5 debate with more Genesis folks, grab your popcorn and head over to the Genesis pricing thread:

https://genesisowners.com/genesis-fo...evealed.29399/

The tide is changing in that thread. Rather than the general theme of the GV80 being a value compared to the X5 (which I think we have basically debunked) now folks are complaining that it is priced too high.

[Marty in NY]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

Looks like a nice vehicle to me. I enjoyed the G70 so the fact that Genesis is finally getting a design inside and out as well as switchgear that is less related to the regular Hyundai's is a big plus. I'll be sure to check them out when they are on dealer lots.

I will go check it out too, I like to keep up with whats out there, especially when its targeted to my class of vehicle. I like the looks of the exterior but not the puss. I'm not quite sure how I feel about the interior, its ok, sorta plain looking but that Buick steering wheel has got to go. On paper, its over priced and the Genesis forum has also come to that realization and I read disappointment in their posts. They force 3rd row upon you when ordering their highest level package (Prestige), that's not good.

Every time I've gone and test driven something, I come away feeling great about my BMW's.

[Bimar]

The price difference doesn’t justify picking the Genesis, poor strategy

[TXSchnee]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

It will be interesting to see how things play out. Of course it is subjective but from the pictures it will be up there with the best looking exteriors in the market segment. I'm not a fan of the interior are at all but as your poll shown, it appeals to many people. I don't think the engine/tranny will be anywhere near as good as the 40i but early reviews seem to say it will be close.

There are two areas that I think will really hurt it, one being the way they package options and not allowing customers to choose the features they like. The other is the dealers, currently all but a handful are selling the Genesis models out of a Hyundai building and they are not providing the sales experience people in the segment are looking for.

To be fair, BMW is now bundling features and not as flexible to order a la carte either. You could order ACC as a standalone on the '19s, on the '20s you have to bundle it with the Assistance package. It is cheaper for BMW to do this, but it is also clear cost cutting.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by TXSchnee

To be fair, BMW is now bundling features and not as flexible to order a la carte either. You could order ACC as a standalone on the '19s, on the '20s you have to bundle it with the Assistance package. It is cheaper for BMW to do this, but it is also clear cost cutting.

True but still night and day between the two in my opinion. For example, forcing people to take 22" wheels in order to get Nappa leather seats or a third row in order to get a digital instrument cluster is at a quite different level.

Edit: I talked to the PR guy from Genesis and the rumor about the top trim having to have the third row is not true. The vehicles that had that feature at the auto show were pre-production specially built to show all options.

[Marty in NY]

Originally Posted by TXSchnee

To be fair, BMW is now bundling features and not as flexible to order a la carte either. You could order ACC as a standalone on the '19s, on the '20s you have to bundle it with the Assistance package. It is cheaper for BMW to do this, but it is also clear cost cutting.

I see that but believe as "new" features become mainstream, like ACC, ASS, birdseye view, etc., mfg's start automatically including them either as standard or in a package with other things. BMW still has a whole page of 'a la carte options and I hope they stay that way.
The X5 Executive package has some features I like but also some I don't want, that's why I don't like pre-canned packages. Manufacturers that do their marketing demographic homework add features they know we really want into a package with low value features that just create profit for them.

[TXSchnee]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

True but still night and day between the two in my opinion. For example, forcing people to take 22" wheels in order to get Nappa leather seats or a third row in order to get a digital instrument cluster is at a quite different level.

That is true, but I see BMW NA going that route in the next decade, as they seem to be trying to cut costs. It is also extremely common for Asian cars to bundle everything, Lexus, Acura and Infiniti already do that, so it makes sense Genesis would follow them. I don't think the GV80 is a competitor outright to the G05, maybe the 4cyl Q7 and definitely the RX, MDX and QX60, but it could be after a refresh or two.

[TXSchnee]

Originally Posted by Marty in Bgm

I see that but believe as "new" features become mainstream, like ACC, ASS, birdseye view, etc., mfg's start automatically including them either as standard or in a package with other things. BMW still has a whole page of 'a la carte options and I hope they stay that way.
The X5 Executive package has some features I like but also some I don't want, that's why I don't like pre-canned packages. Manufacturers that do their marketing demographic homework add features they know we really want into a package with low value features that just create profit for them.

I just prefer to get what I want. I am already faster at braking than the emergency assistance in my G01. Right now, most of those safety packages just aren't at the level they need to be. I am currently sitting at $31k in options on my ordered Cayenne, Porsche may charge an arm and a leg for their options, but you can order only what you want.

[TurtleBoy]

In regards to the GV80, and some other brands, I think why they are doing the packaging like that is because they do not offer the ability to custom order a vehicle and only sell what has been already produced. In order to offer custom builds they would have to change their supply model or try to emulate them by having a supply of all of the different ordering combinations.

The way their system currently works is a potential customer supplies the dealer with the specifications for a vehicle that they want. Most, but not all, dealers will take that information and request a vehicle matching those specs be put into their next allocation. Genesis USA will then try to fulfill those requests with vehicles that are in port or in transit to the port that normally supplies the dealer's area. Dealer/port trades can also be used to get a customer a vehicle.

[upsidedownfunnel]

The 3.5T Advanced is more or less featured similarly to our X5. HUD, Surround view, cheaper leather (Dakota), 3 zone climate, self parking, active safety garbage, premium audio. Actually, our X5 has the Harman Kardon and no rear seat heaters. The Lexicon is supposed to be a pretty good system, probably a bit better than the HK BMW system but not as good as the B&W. For all that the price is $64k. Our X5 stickers at $70k. So equivalent to the X5, the prices seem to be about 8-10% less.

$6k less might not seem like a lot, but you can't forget the 5yr/60k B2B warranty and 10y/100k powertrain warranty. They also have the valet service where they'll pick up and drop your car off for service. Gensis also set the price to make sure people know that it's a luxury class car, not a premium brand like Acura or Buick. What will also end up happening is that once the initial demand dies down, dealerships will be putting $5k on the hood for basically anyone with a pulse. I bet it won't take much effort at all to get these things down about 10-15% off MSRP.

The steering wheel is kinda weird, but the interior otherwise looks absolutely gorgeous. I think it looks nicer (including the steering wheel) than most Range Rovers.

[perikifi]

Re: packaging and bundles. These are marketing choices seen fit for some geographies, and they are different for different countries. In many European markets like mine, there is almost complete freedom to pick and choose each individual option by code, some 50 of them in total, not counting standard features.

So the factory needs to be able to produce any combination, making every car unique from the manufacturing perspective. Although half of the X5's remain in the US, it is hard to see cost savings as a reason for bundling.

[MystroX5]

This thread has reminds me of a large church picnic I attended where everyone brings a dish. I sat across from a guy that brought generic hotdogs and store brand cola and continued to justify it was just as good to everyone he was in contact with the entire picnic. This spoke volumes considering no one ever even brought the topic up.

[jjscsix]

My, don’t we love to justify buying our BMWs claiming that other vehicles have no soul. First of all, most buyers of SUVs wouldn't know “soul” if it smacked them in the face. Second of all, most reviews the past few years essentially say BMW has lost its way. Third of all, read reviews of the G70 with the sports package. It gets fantastic reviews from a enthusiast standpoint.

Let’s not forget that one of Genesis’ big wigs came from BMW and was hired for just that reason.

BTW, I just saw pics of the 2121 G80. It is gorgeous, although I do agree that the grill is a little ungainly. But as someone above said, that can be said of most cars. The one thing that would really help the new Genesis grill would be to put their emblem in the middle of the grill to break it up a little,