[Eagle1788]

Apple finally announced they will begin supporting high res audio. Any advice on how to take full advantage of this in a G05 X5 with the Bowers and Wilkens speakers? I typically play music audio through Apple CarPlay and I’m not sure whether that wireless connection will transfer the high quality audio to the vehicle. Appreciate any guidance and help!

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/...ossless-audio/

[MOTOP]

From 9to5mac.com:

“ Clear: No Bluetooth support

As we noted yesterday, it was mathematically obvious that you wouldn’t be able to listen to Hi-Res Lossless on any Bluetooth headphones. Streaming 24-bit audio at 192kHz requires 9.2Mbps, and Bluetooth 5.0 maxes out at 2Mbps.

Even that 2Mbps maximum bandwidth is theoretical. As soon as you get any distance between music source and headphones, the bitrate drops – which is why we said listening to lossless audio via Bluetooth was a nonstarter.

In response to an email from 9to5Mac, Apple confirmed this. The company said simply, “Lossless doesn’t work over Bluetooth.” That unqualified statement suggests Apple Music doesn’t even attempt to stream ALAC via Bluetooth, and that it automatically selects AAC.

However, that should have left AirPods Max compatible with lossless audio in wired use, but…”

Could be possible over wireless carplay. But personally i don’t believe that.

[sahajesh]

Wireless CarPlay uses WiFi for TX/RX (Bluetooth is just for setup/handshaking) so it should be possible, but I expect Apple to hobble it.

[MOTOP]

Originally Posted by sahajesh

Wireless CarPlay uses WiFi for TX/RX (Bluetooth is just for setup/handshaking) so it should be possible, but I expect Apple to hobble it.

That was my point.
I just think Apple is gonna say that some “custom chip” or other BS is needed for this to work.

[ramparts]

Originally Posted by fe03h20

That was my point.
I just think Apple is gonna say that some “custom chip” or other BS is needed for this to work.

I believe CarPlay is limited to 16 bit / 44khz - I send apple lossless from my phone over it now and sounds decent

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Eagle1788

Apple finally announced they will begin supporting high res audio. Any advice on how to take full advantage of this in a G05 X5 with the Bowers and Wilkens speakers?

Ignore it

IMO, the odds of anyone hearing any significant difference with "high res" on ANY car audio system is pretty low, here's why:

(1.) Let's assume you're streaming (or have) 16/44 quality (i.e., CD/Tidal Quality) from Apple "bitperfect" to the B&W system, i.e., not over bluetooth, but via WiFi or Line In / Aux, meaning there's no DAC between the stream, your phone, and the B&W system.

(2.) Next, let's assume you're not listening to something that's mastered "compressed", i.e., most pop music. ( Most pop music is "compressed" meaning the highs and lows are normalized. For example, if a vocalist suddenly sings louder, that volume is pulled down on the master to match the background music volume - Jazz and orchestral, e.g., cymbals crashing, are particular victims of this.) If the track is mastered compressed, then "high def" probably loses some of its value (meaning almost all) since everything was pre-mushed together in the master anyway. (not to mention there are just plain ole bad recordings! a lot of them.)

(3.) Finally, let's assume you're parked inside your garage with the engine off since outside noise, road hum, engine noise, etc will likely drown out all the tiny details high def provides. (e.g., vocalist breathing in, guitar pick touching the string, snare brush touching the drum, etc)


Combing these pre-conditions together with the B&W hardware capabilities, we can assess what needs to happen for high def to reveal meaningful detail ...

We need:

• A track recorded/mastered with detail / dynamic range (is it? hmmm),
• The B&W DAC capable of resolving that detail (can it? hmmm),
• The B&W amp capable of delivering that detail (can it? hmmm),
• The B&W speakers capable of presenting that detail (can they? hmmm)
• The X5 interior doesn't suppress that detail (won't it? hmmm),
• And finally, you need to be listening for and able to hear the extra detail (can you? hmmm)

Personally I'm skeptical any car audio system can achieve all that ....

But that said, even if I'm right, it doesn't mean "a" won't sound better than "b" to you because "you're doing everything right", and if that's the case, rock on!

Otherwise I wouldn't worry about high def and just enjoy the music you love however you can!

[jg05]

Just my $.02- I can definitely hear the lower sound quality in Apple Music. I ended up signing up for Amazon Music HD and with the B&W system you can hear a difference. I was actually doing a comparison test today with the same song on each service.

With the Apple AAC compression, you just lose a lot of the high hi’s. It always sounds like it’s just trying to get a bit more clear but it never does.

With Amazon HD you can hear a brighter, fuller sound. There is a limit to the bit rate data that can be passed via CarPlay but the source is less compressed before being capped.

Either way, I’m excited to see if Apple improves the sound in Apple Music.

Ask 10 people on a message board their opinion about something subjective and you’ll get 12 opinions so YMMV but to say no one can hear the difference or only when parked is just not true. I would bet most people don’t notice it though.

For me, it was super annoying to have upgraded the sound system and not be able to stream at least decent sounding music. Hoping I can cancel Amazon Music HD once Apple releases this upgrade!

It won’t be true lossless but CD quality is fine to make the B&W system shine when balanced with the convenience of a streaming service vs ripping my own tunes. That’s just never gonna happen . . .

[clbeerguy]

Will the X5 allow you to connect your iphone via the lightning cable in order to eliminate the Bluetooth quality loss?

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by jg05

With Amazon HD you can hear a brighter, fuller sound.

If you like it more, then

Though if you're curious on the mechanism, go to any headphone meetup and try your favorite tracks, CD quality vs high-res (>16/44), bitperfect on $10,000 of dacs/amps/headphones ... you'll fail to differentiate between them.

That said, most people on better-than-average equip can certainly hear the difference between bluetooth & not, and between MP3 quality vs CD (i.e., Tidal or Amazon "HD"). Is it a LARGE difference? large enough for $$$ and labor?


So if your point is, you can hear *some* difference between MP3 via bluetooth versus bitperfect 16/44 (or some mix), then, yeah, you probably can!

My point is/was "high res", i.e., anything >CD quality, i.e., "high res" tracks ... and then all of the factors at play (i.e., wireless transmission, auto interior noise, B&W hardware, et al) ... for the less-than-mind-blowing slight improvement you heard ... is it worth a bunch of messing about?

You can buy a Schiit Magni/Modi stack for $200 and decent entry-level audiophile HPs for $200 to get a WHOA-sounding at-home system for $400! Or you can buy some Dali IO-6s BT headphones for $500 which also sound pretty damn great streaming Tidal ... or even a Lootoo Paw S1 for $169, plug it into your iPhone, and get a decent set of headphones ... all of these will sound leagues better than anything in your car.


So that's my point: given all of the variables involved in digital audio overall, and then Apple configs, not to mention porting it into a car environment, for such a small improvement, in such a variable listening environment ... maybe it's better to focus on listening to the music itself versus listening to the software & gear?

[bobbis1]

I think to the OPs original q (no one here talking abt buying new equipment!) we all agree ALAC vs AAC has noticeable difference with the correct setup.
1 does CarPlay support transmission over wifi/lightning? (clearly won’t work on Bluetooth)
2 does B&W/Idrive support decoding ALAC?
3 Finally but least important is the speaker quality sufficient enough to tell the difference?