[760Lifan]

Originally Posted by fr_tz

90K for a Grand Cherokee is laughable. I wouldn’t even buy it at 60K.

First of all, I didn't "buy" it. I leased it.

Is the X5 the vehicle with the better driving experience? Yes, it is.
Is the X5 $500/month better? No. And I know what I'm talking about - you can see in my signature what I previously drove. That $123k X7 cost $1,500/month - so now I'm supposed to pay $1,400 for a vehicle priced $90k?

What you did not "get' was that my post was about value - and as good as the X5 50e is, the value isn't there right now. Even the iX is better positioned today. Could this change in the future? Sure, but today, it is what it is.

Originally Posted by fr_tz

How could a Jeep be better equipped than the present X5?

That, my friend, is THE question you need to ask those in charge at BMW. Over the last couple of years, BMW has discontinued several features on their vehicles. When it comes to equipment, may I ask what the 50e has to offer that the 45e didn't? Perhaps an improved autonomous driving feature. Anything else? Sure, they improved the powertrain and battery - but increased the price compared to the 45e by how much?

Originally Posted by fr_tz

The only option that Jeep offers that you can’t get on the X5 is Night Vision.

Flat out wrong. It's not just Night Vision. The Jeep has ventilated rear seats, built in Fire TV with two rear-screens (you can even watch live TV on the main front screen when in Park), a separate front passenger screen for TV, media, navigation and access to the vehicle cameras, a 19 speaker McIntosh sound system (better than H/K but not as good as B&W. However, you can't get B&W on the 50e) and a digital rear view mirror.

Originally Posted by fr_tz

The powertrains aren’t even close, battery size, charge, etc.

I mentioned that in my initial post. I can say though that there is no lack of performance on the Jeep. 375 hp and 470 pound-feet of torque is on 45e-level and sufficient for my needs. I also believe the Jeep has the better mpg-rating when the ICE is running and overall, the greater range.

Originally Posted by fr_tz

There isn’t a single box that Jeep checks that the X5 doesn’t.

For me, the biggest box was "value". Right now, there is a high demand for the 50e so BMW doesn't have to pass on the $7,500 tax credit on the 50e leases. I'm not sure though they can hold on to that in the long run. On the iX, they caved in and I wouldn't be surprised if they will do so on the 50e at some point, too.

[760Lifan]

Originally Posted by fr_tz

There’s a reason why he got 20K off. It’s because it’s a Jeep. Lol.

There is a reason why you can currently get $20k off an iX. It's because it's a BMW.

Oh, wait....

[MartieNYBK]

Maybe these newer model Jeeps are more reliable then BMW's.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by MartieNYBK

Maybe these newer model Jeeps are more reliable then BMW's.

No, not even close. The seem to be consistently ranked as one of the most unreliable vehicle brands on the market while BMW is one of the most reliable.

[760Lifan]

Originally Posted by MartieNYBK

Maybe these newer model Jeeps are more reliable then BMW's.

Honestly, I don't think one has a significant advantage over the other. My X7 was issue-free and so is my Jeep.

There are others on Jeep forums that post about more serious problems but I read the same on here about the 50e.

[fr_tz]

Originally Posted by 760Lifan

First of all, I didn't "buy" it. I leased it.

Is the X5 the vehicle with the better driving experience? Yes, it is.
Is the X5 $500/month better? No. And I know what I'm talking about - you can see in my signature what I previously drove. That $123k X7 cost $1,500/month - so now I'm supposed to pay $1,400 for a vehicle priced $90k?

Bad logic. Result of interest rates and the "inflationary pressures" your buddy was talking about. Anything L4L from 3-4 years ago is more expensive today.

Originally Posted by 760Lifan

What you did not "get' was that my post was about value - and as good as the X5 50e is, the value isn't there right now. Even the iX is better positioned today. Could this change in the future? Sure, but today, it is what it is.

If the iX was so well positioned they wouldn't be flooded on dealers lots presently. BMW cant even give them away. As you mentioned they're also passing through the EV Lease Credit. Not indicative of a well positioned vehicle.

Originally Posted by 760Lifan

Flat out wrong. It's not just Night Vision. The Jeep has ventilated rear seats, built in Fire TV with two rear-screens (you can even watch live TV on the main front screen when in Park), a separate front passenger screen for TV, media, navigation and access to the vehicle cameras, a 19 speaker McIntosh sound system (better than H/K but not as good as B&W. However, you can't get B&W on the 50e) and a digital rear view mirror.

Read up on iD8/iD8.5. A lot of these features are available/accessible and RSE is available as a dealer add on accessory where you can get all of these things. You cant get the digital rearview mirror and I saw that theres some in vehicle camera that Jeep now has. The second screen is dreadful but thats a matter of preference. What I do care about is the added HP and the more all-electric range. Its why it cost more and why people are seemingly willing to pay more. BMW didnt offer the lease credit on the 45e because they didnt have to. Highly doubtful theyll do it on the 50e given how well its done since launch.

[MartieNYBK]

Originally Posted by 760Lifan

Honestly, I don't think one has a significant advantage over the other. My X7 was issue-free and so is my Jeep.

There are others on Jeep forums that post about more serious problems but I read the same on here about the 50e.

Yeah, I agree. Especially if you lease then who cares about the long term reliability.

[fr_tz]

Originally Posted by 760Lifan

There is a reason why you can currently get $20k off an iX. It's because it's a BMW.

Oh, wait....

You just said the iX is a well positioned vehicle. Lmao...which one is it???

[760Lifan]

Originally Posted by fr_tz

You just said the iX is a well positioned vehicle. Lmao...which one is it???

It is better positioned VALUE-wise. You get the discounts and tax-credit on the iX lease, NOT on the X5 50e.

If your monthly payment is lower on a vehicle with the higher MSRP - especially if it's the same brand - you get the better bang for the buck.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by 760Lifan

It is better positioned VALUE-wise. You get the discounts and tax-credit on the iX lease, NOT on the X5 50e.

If your monthly payment is lower on a vehicle with the higher MSRP - especially if it's the same brand - you get the better bang for the buck.

This is a silly discussion but don't agree with that at all. They are two different types of vehicles that can't be compared just by looking at price. You could drop the price of the iX to $40k and many folks will not get one. Value is not based on numbers but rather an individual's perception of worth.

[fr_tz]

Originally Posted by 760Lifan

It is better positioned VALUE-wise. You get the discounts and tax-credit on the iX lease, NOT on the X5 50e.

If your monthly payment is lower on a vehicle with the higher MSRP - especially if it's the same brand - you get the better bang for the buck.

Or the market just wasnt ready for a $100K EV BMW that looks the way that it does. The Grand Cherokee is Jeeps flagship vehicle and they're discounting them 20K, as you mentioned. Which is why your logic and response makes zero sense. At the end of the day you seem very happy with your Jeep. But the reality is 9/10 people would pick the X5 over it all day long. Cool second screen though.

[Mtn2Srf]

Originally Posted by LDT

Longer?

Wider. 😆

[760Lifan]

Originally Posted by fr_tz

Bad logic. Result of interest rates and the "inflationary pressures" your buddy was talking about. Anything L4L from 3-4 years ago is more expensive today.

Not true. I can still lease a $120k BMW for $1,500/month. That would be the iX M60.

Originally Posted by fr_tz

If the iX was so well positioned they wouldn't be flooded on dealers lots presently. BMW cant even give them away. As you mentioned they're also passing through the EV Lease Credit. Not indicative of a well positioned vehicle.

The iX is NOT selling great. That, however, does not make it a bad vehicle. It is somewhat of a niche product in today's market but it can be a great fit. The reviews have been excellent.

Again, "well positioned" was about the value. Personally, I'd rather pay $1,500/month for a $120k iX M60 than $1,400 for a $90k X5 50e. You can argue that the X5 is the better fit for the majority of drivers and households and therefore, has the higher demand. But it's certainly not the better value.

You should ask yourself though why you can get $20k off the iX if such a discount was a "Jeep-thing", right?

Originally Posted by fr_tz

Read up on iD8/iD8.5. A lot of these features are available/accessible

Which of these features would that be?

Originally Posted by fr_tz

and RSE is available as a dealer add on accessory where you can get all of these things. The second screen is dreadful but thats a matter of preference. What I do care about is the added HP and the more all-electric range. Its why it cost more and why people are seemingly willing to pay more. BMW didnt offer the lease credit on the 45e because they didnt have to. Highly doubtful theyll do it on the 50e given how well its done since launch.

I used to have the RSE on my X7 and what BMW is offering now as a DIY-solution is a huge step back. I'm not even sure they are selling brand specific screens as an accessory and in case they do, if those are still connected to the vehicle's infotainment system like they were on their original RSE.

If your focus is on the additional power and EV range, there is no reason not to go with the 50e. I've been saying that since my first post.

For me, the additional power and 13 miles in EV-range don't warrant $500/month more but that's a personal choice.

[760Lifan]

Originally Posted by fr_tz

But the reality is 9/10 people would pick the X5 over it all day long.

I guess that makes me special. especially since I would also pick an iX over the X5 all day long - LOL!

[cobramite]

It will be most interesting to see how this EV thing plays out over the next 5-10 years and it really is anyones guess. There are obviously some serious headwinds out there flying directly in the face of EV potential buyers such as cost, range, charging, etc. Car manufacturers are bleeding cash wholesale as a result of their EV efforts.
Government declarations of EV mandates by certain dates is not a positive either. The general public never reacts favorably to government control. Free markets are most preferable and perform far better.
The EU recently threw in the towel on their deadline.
The fact that a pompously announced thirteen year full EV transition was cancelled only one year after it was adopted strongly suggests that the idea was untenably stupid.
EVs in all likelyhood are part of our future but are by no means exclusively THE future.

[ddavtian]

Originally Posted by 760Lifan

Again, "well positioned" was about the value. Personally, I'd rather pay $1,500/month for a $120k iX M60 than $1,400 for a $90k X5 50e. You can argue that the X5 is the better fit for the majority of drivers and households and therefore, has the higher demand. But it's certainly not the better value.

How do you define "value"?
If X5 is the better fit for the majority, then may be it's more valuable to them than iX. Value is not only the dollar signs, there are intangible components that go into it.

[BMWFLYNN]

Bizarre cross shopping on this thread.

[eelnoraa]

I have drive IX. As much as I think it is a very good EV, I cannot buy one at $40k. I think the issue is not people are not ready for EV. It is the charging infrastructure isn’t ready. Even at $40k, I cannot buy one as family car.

As for jeep, even with $20k off msrp, I still won’t get one. Not worth the risk to challenge a decade long reputation of not reliable as family car either.

To me, these are good deals, but I don’t get value out of them even at these discount.

[760Lifan]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

This is a silly discussion but don't agree with that at all. They are two different types of vehicles that can't be compared just by looking at price. You could drop the price of the iX to $40k and many folks will not get one. Value is not based on numbers but rather an individual's perception of worth.

And to me, the "individual perception of worth" is currently lacking on the 50e.

I would disagree that the 50e and iX are so different that they are not both being looked at right now. What is true though is that the infrastructure is not yet at a point where people new to the EV-world are either able or willing to make the second step (EV) ahead of the first (PHEV).

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by 760Lifan

I would disagree that the 50e and iX are so different that they are not both being looked at right now. What is true though is that the infrastructure is not yet at a point where people new to the EV-world are either able or willing to make the second step (EV) ahead of the first (PHEV).

I'm just basing it on what my dealer contacts tell me and the posting from members here, the iX and 50e are very rarely cross-shopped.

[760Lifan]

Originally Posted by TurtleBoy

I'm just basing it on what my dealer contacts tell me and the posting from members here, the iX and 50e are very rarely cross-shopped.

Well, a reason for that could indeed be the difference between PHEV and EV (infrastructure). I think of the iX as an X5 50e alternative for short commutes. That many people have different needs is clear - especially if you have a one vehicle household and not the option to have another ICE- or at least PHEV-vehicle available.

Those who have no issue with the fact that the iX is an EV, however, exist, and there are at least some people who cross-shop (or are at least thinking about it):

https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=2017046

IMO, a great two vehicle household set-up would be a X5 50e paired with an iX - if you want to stick with BMW.

What we can probably agree on is that it really is a silly discussion to limit a certain discount of a vehicle to its brand. The iX pretty much debunks that theory.

[redhot47fla]

Originally Posted by 760Lifan

IMO, a great two vehicle household set-up would be a X5 50e paired with an iX - if you want to stick with BMW.

This is exactly why I've been lurking on this board for the last week or so. We picked up my iX M60 last Friday (love it so far). Trying to nudge my wife into trading her '21 Lexus RX350 for the X5 50e. Best of both worlds, imo. High-tech pure electric for around town; high-tech electric/ICE for longer travel.