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      11-28-2019, 06:34 AM   #23
randybobandy
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The problem is that BMW is a HUGE company. There's no reason they can advertise this feature and then completely shit the bed on it. To me, they are just being cheap and not hiring/maintaining a good team to implement OTAs. Honestly, if it is this crapped up, I would take USB updates until they figure it out. I hate driving to the dealership to roll the dice on which version I will get, only to go back a month later for another.

Tesla, as ambitious as they are, went out and figured it out. It comes down to how motivated the company is to make this feature really work. Honestly, any company that is going to charge to CarPlay and nickel and dime on other features that should be included on a $75k+ vehicle should say it all. If they never offered OTA, I would not be pissed...but, that was a big selling point, and their site still advertises it. Nowhere on any literature does it say ***available at a later date. They just don't care, since there's really no incentive to rush. They got their money! The best part, if you call customer relations, they could give a crap. My favorite response when asking about this and if there would be any extensions was "well what do you want us to do? what are you asking us for?" That pretty much tells you how much they care about getting this going.
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      11-28-2019, 08:15 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumpingpint View Post
What is Nio? How many cars have they sold?

Not the same level.
About 25k since 2018. How many G05 and G20 with Idrive 7 are there?
It is the same level. NIO a tiny ev company had OTA update from day one, BMW with infinitely more resources as pointed out by randybobandy still can't figure it out. How is that not embarrassing?

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Originally Posted by claykin View Post
Is Nio selling in the heavy regulatory/litigious US market?
The markets has nothing to do with it.
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      11-28-2019, 09:33 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladers View Post
About 25k since 2018. How many G05 and G20 with Idrive 7 are there?
It is the same level. NIO a tiny ev company had OTA update from day one, BMW with infinitely more resources as pointed out by randybobandy still can't figure it out. How is that not embarrassing?



The markets has nothing to do with it.
Nio has the backing from the government, unlimited resources. Without operating under a market condition and without thinking being profitable, a company can do anything, especially at copying ideas.

And, inventing is more time consuming than copying ideas. It is good BMW continues inventing and trying new things like self driving, gesture control, 600HP M5, among others.
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      11-28-2019, 10:25 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladers View Post
About 25k since 2018. How many G05 and G20 with Idrive 7 are there?
Not that it is an excuse but there are many more X5's and 3-Series and of course the X7 also uses iDrive7. Just in 2019 through October there have been 41,479 X5's sold in the US and 31,527 in Europe. For the 3-Series it is almost 60k units. Throw in Canada, Australia and all of the other markets and there are probably 5 times more sold just this year.
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      11-29-2019, 08:30 AM   #27
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This pretty much sums up BMW's software situation.

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      11-29-2019, 03:40 PM   #28
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The best we can do is to get help from media. Then BMW have to react.
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      11-30-2019, 09:20 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by imdexter View Post
The best we can do is to get help from media. Then BMW have to react.
I feel like that's a lost cause. I was going to file with FTC and BBB in the US. I know they have to look into it, whether they do anything or not is another story.

Whatever the course of action, there has to be a unified front, which would give a little more power to the complaints versus a few spread out. I can't stand that their YouTube page has all these How To videos, including one on RSU. How about a How To video on releasing some of these promised features?
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      12-01-2019, 06:50 AM   #30
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I'm testing the beta ConnectedDrive 6.3 now and have to do some testing with the remote update of the MGU via RSU very soon. Keep you all posted ...
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      12-01-2019, 07:31 AM   #31
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I'm not terribly surprised of the slow pace of BMW software, their testing matrix must be HUGE really, given all the configuration, for *all the cars* with vastly different performance envelope and physical size.

I think they are not helped by having so many discrete components per car as well; they must have each their own 'team', require integration etc etc etc.

Basically it's nearly as bad as a real OS, and companies like Apple have software dept and QA dept that are massively larger.

Compare that to the odd startups, or even Tesla, that have at most a handful of models, and also look at Tesla failures with their 'autopilot' and stuff -- so far we haven't heard of an X5 killing passengers by accelerating into the back of a parked truck.
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      12-01-2019, 09:10 AM   #32
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buze I agree with you on not rushing it. I just wish they went out and hired a team to get this implemented. I wouldn't mind constant updates and tweaks if I didn't have to keep going to the dealer. I actually am happy with all the iOS updates, since it shows they're fixing bugs and what not.

BMW's lack of information and transparency with customers has been my gripe. I love the car, and it drives beautifully. However, I purchased this car on the fact they would be pushing updates and constantly improving. I hope (and know) they will figure it out, but it needs to improve. They are improving the safety features and what not, but given their track record on software, I want to know that it is being done right and well.

In short, as long as I get from Point A to Point B safely, with music, phone, and messaging, as well as navigation...I am a happy camper. I just prefer going to the dealership for mechanical issues and scheduled maintenance. My "oh CarPlay keeps disconnecting" excuse is dying. It was fixed way back in the year for me, but it seems to be the only way to get a software update. Who the heck knows what they're doing, since we don't get release notes. At the end of the day, I love this car, but hate it at the same time...I just get picky with tech and want to get the full potential out of this car. The worst part is I am almost a year into my subscriptions, so I basically lost a year of RSU that I paid for when initially purchasing. I hope BMW does an extension.





Oh, and hope they AU article is universal and we get CarPlay for no cost!
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      12-01-2019, 01:32 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buze View Post
I'm not terribly surprised of the slow pace of BMW software, their testing matrix must be HUGE really, given all the configuration, for *all the cars* with vastly different performance envelope and physical size.

I think they are not helped by having so many discrete components per car as well; they must have each their own 'team', require integration etc etc etc.

Basically it's nearly as bad as a real OS, and companies like Apple have software dept and QA dept that are massively larger.
Yes, that is their challenge. Many established companies have failed the transformation from a hardware + embedded software company to a hardware + platform + software company, for example Nokia. BMW is trying but maybe they are moving too fast compared to their platform and software capabilities: there's no progress if each new feature or fix breaks two existing features.

However, all the hardware and software components they are working with are still their own design or picked by them (much like with Apple), so it is totally up to them to make it work. The testing matrix is large but really nothing compared to Windows PCs, each unique, where the task has still been solved to a decent degree (although I am sure there are other opinions about this ). BMW controllers and firmware are also highly reusable between product lines, iDrive looks largely identical on multiple vehicles, and all the use cases are the same.

BMW, just build a good software team, don't rush it and keep fixing until you reach stability.
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      12-01-2019, 08:36 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjoed2 View Post
I thought the OTA updates were supposed to be functional in the 2020's??
Right... the same way that Bluetooth and CarPlay were supposed to be functional in 2019.

This is total BS.
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      12-01-2019, 08:55 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perikifi View Post
BMW, just build a good software team, don't rush it and keep fixing until you reach stability.
That seems to be the real problem. Current generation of software developers and their management *seem* -- I'm open to having my opinion changed -- more concerned about inclusion, diversity, not wanting to trigger snowflakes, the correct pairings of bean bag chair colors and brews in the lounge.... than they are about software quality, customer satisfaction, meritocracy, and attention to detail. I'm all for inclusion and diversity, as long as those things are not prioritized over being able to produce a rock-solid customer experience... which should be a reasonable expectation of customers dropping $80k on a car.
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      12-02-2019, 09:15 AM   #36
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I just don't understand how they can drag their feet this poorly. If it isn't ready, then fine...but don't advertise it on your literature or feature it as a selling point. Furthermore, we're all paying for it as it is built into the cost of the car. I would really appreciate and hope that BMW would extend it a year for everyone. Whether you own or lease, they need to do something. People who own should get an extension on services that are NOT available. The people leasing should get a prorated refund or some other rebate/discount for future use.

We are not even talking about features that are out and unstable...that is a whole other discussion. The real salt in the wound is when logging into the ConnectedDrive site and seeing Remote Software Upgrades as Recommended Services for my vehicle...it's a joke! If they didn't build vehicles that were fun and rock solid...I think they would see much more people jumping ship.


Hey BMW...stop building random vehicles and fix what you have...it's turning into half assed attempts with big grills and other stupidity. I wouldn't trust those gyroscopic cup holders to not throw hot coffee on my junk.
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      12-03-2019, 04:53 AM   #37
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Everywhere there are advantages and disadvantages. For a long time already use this brand of cars and got used to them, it will be difficult for me to refuse them if I have to. Therefore, I only have to wait for improvements in programs and improvements.
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      12-03-2019, 08:24 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel-J View Post
Everywhere there are advantages and disadvantages. For a long time already use this brand of cars and got used to them, it will be difficult for me to refuse them if I have to. Therefore, I only have to wait for improvements in programs and improvements.
You're right...I can't imagine going to another brand. Everyone has their issues and shortcomings. I'll take software bugs over mechanical issues. Remove the gadgets and go to the driving experience...you won't beat BMW. At the end of the day, it could be worse...look at Ford and the 2020 Explorers! Ouch.
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