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      08-19-2020, 04:45 PM   #1
9uman9y
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X5 45e - Strange noise from all mid-range and 3D B&W speakers

Hi All, noticed very week, but clear noise from the center of the dash where the center B&W speaker is.

Sounds as if there is an electrical pick-up on wiring (but not from a cell phone).

Can be heard when the car is on stand by, with nothing playing, aka „welcome" mode. When plugged-in and when not. Ventilation - off.

Not sure if that is from the center speaker or from within the dash.

Does anyone have it? Will show to dealer later this week.

Last edited by 9uman9y; 09-19-2020 at 05:27 PM..
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      08-19-2020, 05:14 PM   #2
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Is it this?

https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1589172
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      08-20-2020, 12:20 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Sirksael View Post
No, it is not high frequency, but rather sounds like an old record player. Studied it more today. Comes from all B&W speakers, in welcome (sound off / no source selected) mode, in radio mode or when iPhone music is playing, when volume is low.

Not something I would expect from a sound system of this price tag.
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      09-19-2020, 05:25 PM   #4
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interim update.
Have visited my dealer twice, who tried to solve the issue of the noise by iDrive update first. Update did not help, but I learned that the noise comes from all mid-range and 3D B&W speakers (twitters are OK). All the mid-range and 3D speakers are connected to a receiver (one of the two amplifiers installed). The dealer has ordered and replaced that receiver. Did not help. Now ordered the second amplifier. Looking forward to that, will be the 3rd appointment. Not dealer's fault anyway.

Reportedly, this issue is now known to BMW as they have several similar complaints from Europe and started to collect technical info from dealers whose clients are affected. Not sure if it is a general issue with X5 with B&W, or it is specific to X5 45e with B&W or just to some of X5 45e with B&W.

Again it is a quiet, but still pronounced noise, sounds like when you drop sand on a paper. Can be heard from B&W speakers in our X5 45e, when nothing is playing through the speakers. There car itself is super silent (no engine noise, if changed), which makes all noises quite pronounced. Hope BMW / dealer will fix it, otherwise silly to be buying 6k$ sound system to hear noises.
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      10-03-2020, 04:42 PM   #5
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Some update after third service appointment.

The second receiver was replaced. Did not help. More over, the dealer said they have checked other two X5s (diesel) with B&W they had in house, and both other X5s had the same noise. Diesel is just loud (while PHEV is very quiet) so more difficult to hear the noise. However, it is present in Diesel cars too and can be clearly heard if engine is switched off.

Dealer suggested it might be "normal". I did not agree, such an expensive system just should not be producing noises like a radio from 70s.

Dealer said they would discuss with BMW. But no ideas now how to fix it or about what can be causing it. If I knew about the "normal" noise, would not be paying so much for B&W. Very frustrating experience (on top of all the X5 45e battery safety related recall gate now), will try to talk with BMW myself too.
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      10-03-2020, 05:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9uman9y View Post
Some update after third service appointment.

The second receiver was replaced. Did not help. More over, the dealer said they have checked other two X5s (diesel) with B&W they had in house, and both other X5s had the same noise.
Sorry to hear - that's pretty interesting, would love to hear from others with the B&W system if they have it. That's definitely not normal from any 2-channel soundsystem; unfortunately, as you probably know, it could be a ton of things from the drivers themselves to EMF interference in the wiring to amplifier and DAC issues.

It'd be interesting to troubleshoot it back by, say, installing a BAVsound driver and checking, then replacing the wiring on that driver ... if it's not that then it's the core electronics, all of which would have to be tested. Still could be EMF interference, or the assembly or the components themselves ... very tricky problem ...

If this is a widespread problem, then BMW will have to step up and refund the B&W option fee if they can't come up with a solution.

Any US folks with a good ear noticing this problem?
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      10-09-2020, 03:17 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9uman9y View Post
Some update after third service appointment.

The second receiver was replaced. Did not help. More over, the dealer said they have checked other two X5s (diesel) with B&W they had in house, and both other X5s had the same noise.
Sorry to hear - that's pretty interesting, would love to hear from others with the B&W system if they have it. That's definitely not normal from any 2-channel soundsystem; unfortunately, as you probably know, it could be a ton of things from the drivers themselves to EMF interference in the wiring to amplifier and DAC issues.

It'd be interesting to troubleshoot it back by, say, installing a BAVsound driver and checking, then replacing the wiring on that driver ... if it's not that then it's the core electronics, all of which would have to be tested. Still could be EMF interference, or the assembly or the components themselves ... very tricky problem ...

If this is a widespread problem, then BMW will have to step up and refund the B&W option fee if they can't come up with a solution.

Any US folks with a good ear noticing this problem?
Would be difficult to test the drivers here unfortunately, but replacing both amplifiers did not help.

Just got a new X7 M50i with B&W sound system as well, and it has the same noise! Unlike X5 45e, X7 has a loud engine that normally is more loud than the noise from the speakers. So more difficult to hear: However I still can hear it when the engine is not running (plenty of occasions when you just wait inside your car).

Given the info from the dealer that two their diesel X5 s had it and now my second car has it, makes me think that ALL the B&W systems in X5 and X7, at least, are affected. Learned from my dealer that BMW has no solution so far and kind of considers it being normal. Terrible, given the price of the system. Very much frustrating.

Here is a "recording" using iPhone, if you what to see if you have the same in your car.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mkedg7rlyo...noise.m4a?dl=0

Ps. had a couple of loaners lately with HK speakers, no noticeable noise.
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      10-09-2020, 04:03 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9uman9y View Post
Here is a "recording" using iPhone, if you what to see if you have the same in your car.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mkedg7rlyo...noise.m4a?dl=0
Is the noise affected by volume control or signal source (bluetooth / something else) or any other audio setting? If it is always the same, the problem might be with the power amps or the DACs.. if the noise level changes with audio volume setting, then the noise comes from earlier stages in the system.
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      10-09-2020, 04:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biterror View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9uman9y View Post
Here is a "recording" using iPhone, if you what to see if you have the same in your car.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mkedg7rlyo...noise.m4a?dl=0
Is the noise affected by volume control or signal source (bluetooth / something else) or any other audio setting? If it is always the same, the problem might be with the power amps or the DACs.. if the noise level changes with audio volume setting, then the noise comes from earlier stages in the system.
Thanks for the clues. No, it does not depend on either volume or source.

The noise can be heard even if I press the volume button to turn the sound system off altogether (but sit in the car, so that the power is still on).

I also think it is quality of the power supply, or some interference, but can't test it.
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      10-09-2020, 04:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9uman9y View Post
Here is a "recording" using iPhone, if you what to see if you have the same in your car
This sounds like possibly noise floor issues in the design of the system.

Basically, the amp's input stage generates the noise from the input device based on how they're connected/implemented; further, if there's other resistance in series to the input, this will add more noise. Plus it could also be volume control noise from the pre-amp depending on how it's all built.

Given it sounds like you've replaced the amps and head units (are they all-in-one?), and given it's in more than one B&W system, it sounds like an artifact of the design - could be due to a design originally made for less power, but then had the power upped without a redesign? Or possibly they swapped in different components from a new vendor?

$3k+ should buy better than that - a vehicle is a shitty place (impossible?) for hi-fi music in general, but, yeah, that crackling would bother me given I do some critical listening.
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      10-09-2020, 05:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9uman9y View Post
Here is a "recording" using iPhone, if you what to see if you have the same in your car
This sounds like possibly noise floor issues in the design of the system.

Basically, the amp's input stage generates the noise from the input device based on how they're connected/implemented; further, if there's other resistance in series to the input, this will add more noise. Plus it could also be volume control noise from the pre-amp depending on how it's all built.

Given it sounds like you've replaced the amps and head units (are they all-in-one?), and given it's in more than one B&W system, it sounds like an artifact of the design - could be due to a design originally made for less power, but then had the power upped without a redesign? Or possibly they swapped in different components from a new vendor?

$3k+ should buy better than that - a vehicle is a shitty place (impossible?) for hi-fi music in general, but, yeah, that crackling would bother me given I do some critical listening.
Yes, 3k$ + is a good money and can buy you a good system. Still, got used to having good audio in my cars. From installing all in DIY-way in a garage to phenomenally good B&O in F13 M6.

Agree, must be design issue with B&W and most likely power related, but it is BMW's job to figure out.

Hope they are taking the issue seriously, but did not hear about any idea from BMW's side.

Attached is how it is all connected. At my suggestion on X5 45e, the dealer first replaced unit 21 (booster) as the noise comes from all speakers connected to it. Then, believe, the dealer replaced the RAM unit (22), did not help either. All signal inputs are via Ethernet.
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      10-09-2020, 05:33 PM   #12
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The connections of B&W
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      10-09-2020, 05:41 PM   #13
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Attached is how it is all connected
Well, the problem is definitely coming from 21 or 22

What's interesting is, based on your description, the noise is only coming from those drivers driven by 21, versus those driven by 22. By itself that doesn't necessarily say it's one or the other vs the the system, but still it'd be interesting just for curiosity if you confirmed every driver connected to 22 doesn't have the noise and every driver connected to 21 does ...
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      10-09-2020, 06:11 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by 9uman9y View Post
Attached is how it is all connected
Well, the problem is definitely coming from 21 or 22

What's interesting is, based on your description, the noise is only coming from those drivers driven by 21, versus those driven by 22. By itself that doesn't necessarily say it's one or the other vs the the system, but still it'd be interesting just for curiosity if you confirmed every driver connected to 22 doesn't have the noise and every driver connected to 21 does ...
Based on my hearing senses only.

I can hear the noise from all the speakers connected to Booster (21) apart from subs and the speaker outside (26), those I simply did not check, and I could not hear anything from the speakers connected to Receiver Audio Module (22), which are mainly twitters.

That is in X5 45e. Cannot tell more as the car has been recalled last week due to reportedly a global battery issue :

Did not do the same "walk around" to listen to every speaker in X7 yet (just got it), but hear that the noise is the same.
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      10-09-2020, 06:21 PM   #15
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Guess best would be try to power the booster from another power source; do not know the voltage nor power requirements though. Would isolate the issue.

However, needs to be done by a dealer /BMW.
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      10-09-2020, 08:07 PM   #16
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You know, I've gone back and listened again through headphones via a direct connection digital audio setup and this sounds exactly like digital interference ... which is surprising if the connections are ethernet (meaning it should have electrostatic and electromagnetic isolation via transformer).

This doesn't sound like normal "noise floor" stuff, rather the voltage spikes of the bitstream itself are being amplified ... which maybe means the ethernet connection between 21 and 22 which is sending a digital signal for conversion in 21's DAC is being picked up after reception in 21's DAC/amp and amplified ... very curious.

not a great vote of confidence in the Bowers & Wilkins name but, hey, they were just acquired so the previous owners probably don't give a shit.
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