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      09-23-2020, 08:47 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by 130FeetDeep View Post
I really think you are going to need the EWG hooked up to get any really solid gains.

How do the new DP sound?
I'm sure that is true but a 5 or 6 lb boost increase over stock with the additive Maps 1 or 2 should be huge. That is a fairly significant increase with a big bump in tq.
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      09-23-2020, 10:53 AM   #46
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I'm sure that is true but a 5 or 6 lb boost increase over stock with the additive Maps 1 or 2 should be huge. That is a fairly significant increase with a big bump in tq.
It all depends if there is no timing retard. Boost is great but there is a lot more to tuning a vehicle than jacking up the boost.
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      09-23-2020, 11:39 AM   #47
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I'm sure that is true but a 5 or 6 lb boost increase over stock with the additive Maps 1 or 2 should be huge. That is a fairly significant increase with a big bump in tq.
It all depends if there is no timing retard. Boost is great but there is a lot more to tuning a vehicle than jacking up the boost.
As per burger tuning, throttle will close to prevent overboost, that's why we are seeing throttle numbers decrease through out the band

Map 2 is best set up if you are stock, map 3 maxes you at 18psi and map 5 maxes you at 20psi
Map 2 I'm hitting 22psi
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      09-23-2020, 01:35 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Tim2189 View Post
As per burger tuning, throttle will close to prevent overboost, that's why we are seeing throttle numbers decrease through out the band

Map 2 is best set up if you are stock, map 3 maxes you at 18psi and map 5 maxes you at 20psi
Map 2 I'm hitting 22psi
EWG control will allow you to control boost with the wastegate rather than with the throttle blade. That does made sense what he is saying.

Why are you getting 4 psi more though? Does he feel hitting 22 psi is safe with no other supporting mods?

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      09-23-2020, 03:20 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by 130FeetDeep View Post
It all depends if there is no timing retard. Boost is great but there is a lot more to tuning a vehicle than jacking up the boost.
Thank You, I am very well aware of that. These piggy back devices are far from "tuning a vehicle". Adding this amount of boost while logging afrs where I see the in these logs is asking for a problem and not worth it.
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      09-23-2020, 03:38 PM   #50
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Thank You, I am very well aware of that. These piggy back devices are far from "tuning a vehicle". Adding this amount of boost while logging afrs where I see the in these logs is asking for a problem and not worth it.
I think we need EWG control before we draw any conclusions as this point.

Just know a flash is an insta-void on your warranty. It isn't a maybe anymore with the new ISTA, it is gone. Anytime your SA plugs into your car, this data is now uploaded to BMW so your warranty is gone. That means piggies are your only choice if you want to retain your powertrain warranty.
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      09-23-2020, 04:24 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by 130FeetDeep View Post
I think we need EWG control before we draw any conclusions as this point.

Just know a flash is an insta-void on your warranty. It isn't a maybe anymore with the new ISTA, it is gone. Anytime your SA plugs into your car, this data is now uploaded to BMW so your warranty is gone. That means piggies are your only choice if you want to retain your powertrain warranty.
^^^^^^This, exactly. Sucks as I would much rather have a true ECM flash. I'll probably give one of these piggy backs a try but just have concerns about the lean conditions that I've seen in these logs.
I read through a few threads about JB4s on another forum and some of the guys claim to have some serious SOTP improvements in M5s and M550is.
How much boost do you think these motors can handle and stay in one piece for say 50,000 miles? My prior experience is with supercharged Ford V8s with Zoeler forged pistons, forged crankshafts, Manley 4340 rods. Going from 8 lbs to say 14 on those 4.6L motors was a profound increase in performance as in going from 13 second 1/4 miles to mid 11s.
I'm nowhere near the break in point on my '21 M50i and have not run it anywhere near redline but am seriously impressed with the stock power and that is here in the SW FL severe heat and very high humidity none of which are favorable to FI engines.
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      09-23-2020, 04:52 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by speedyman View Post
^^^^^^This, exactly. Sucks as I would much rather have a true ECM flash. I'll probably give one of these piggy backs a try but just have concerns about the lean conditions that I've seen in these logs.
I read through a few threads about JB4s on another forum and some of the guys claim to have some serious SOTP improvements in M5s and M550is.
How much boost do you think these motors can handle and stay in one piece for say 50,000 miles? My prior experience is with supercharged Ford V8s with Zoeler forged pistons, forged crankshafts, Manley 4340 rods. Going from 8 lbs to say 14 on those 4.6L motors was a profound increase in performance as in going from 13 second 1/4 miles to mid 11s.
I'm nowhere near the break in point on my '21 M50i and have not run it anywhere near redline but am seriously impressed with the stock power and that is here in the SW FL severe heat and very high humidity none of which are favorable to FI engines.
The motor has proven strong over the years despite some of its oil burning issues over the years. I haven't seen that on the R, but we shall see. The fuel system seems to be having zero issues based on the logs Tim posted. AFR stays north of 14.5 right to redline, so we have plenty of headroom.

My only concern is the timing drops showing up in Tim's logs. I also am not sure why he is seeing 22 lbs of boost when the map he is running should only target 18?
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      09-23-2020, 07:12 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by 130FeetDeep View Post
The motor has proven strong over the years despite some of its oil burning issues over the years. I haven't seen that on the R, but we shall see. The fuel system seems to be having zero issues based on the logs Tim posted. AFR stays north of 14.5 right to redline, so we have plenty of headroom.

My only concern is the timing drops showing up in Tim's logs. I also am not sure why he is seeing 22 lbs of boost when the map he is running should only target 18?
14.5 afr is pretty darn lean for FI or is that OK on these motors? I've been away from this stuff for at least 10 years maybe things have really changed. The tunes we used and tweaked never went over 12.8 at the absolute most. afrs in the 14.5 range on a forced induction motor on the street were unheard of.
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      09-23-2020, 07:28 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 130FeetDeep View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyman View Post
^^^^^^This, exactly. Sucks as I would much rather have a true ECM flash. I'll probably give one of these piggy backs a try but just have concerns about the lean conditions that I've seen in these logs.
I read through a few threads about JB4s on another forum and some of the guys claim to have some serious SOTP improvements in M5s and M550is.
How much boost do you think these motors can handle and stay in one piece for say 50,000 miles? My prior experience is with supercharged Ford V8s with Zoeler forged pistons, forged crankshafts, Manley 4340 rods. Going from 8 lbs to say 14 on those 4.6L motors was a profound increase in performance as in going from 13 second 1/4 miles to mid 11s.
I'm nowhere near the break in point on my '21 M50i and have not run it anywhere near redline but am seriously impressed with the stock power and that is here in the SW FL severe heat and very high humidity none of which are favorable to FI engines.
The motor has proven strong over the years despite some of its oil burning issues over the years. I haven't seen that on the R, but we shall see. The fuel system seems to be having zero issues based on the logs Tim posted. AFR stays north of 14.5 right to redline, so we have plenty of headroom.

My only concern is the timing drops showing up in Tim's logs. I also am not sure why he is seeing 22 lbs of boost when the map he is running should only target 18?
From my understanding and looking at Map 0 logs, stock boost is 16PSI Max, map 2 adds up to 6psi so 22psi would be the limit on the jb4 for now. I ran map 3 and got 18psi max, map 5 got 20psi max and the car didn't feel as refined during those pulls. I didn't wanna do the pulls again so I wasn't able to log them.

This is day 3 of running map 2 and it pulls like a train on the highway, that is where I see majority of the improvement. Overall I'm happy with the set up and think it's worth the money and only 45 min install.
Another positive is that it's a piggy back so you won't get flagged when you go into service which Is major.
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      09-23-2020, 07:57 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim2189 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 130FeetDeep View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyman View Post
^^^^^^This, exactly. Sucks as I would much rather have a true ECM flash. I'll probably give one of these piggy backs a try but just have concerns about the lean conditions that I've seen in these logs.
I read through a few threads about JB4s on another forum and some of the guys claim to have some serious SOTP improvements in M5s and M550is.
How much boost do you think these motors can handle and stay in one piece for say 50,000 miles? My prior experience is with supercharged Ford V8s with Zoeler forged pistons, forged crankshafts, Manley 4340 rods. Going from 8 lbs to say 14 on those 4.6L motors was a profound increase in performance as in going from 13 second 1/4 miles to mid 11s.
I'm nowhere near the break in point on my '21 M50i and have not run it anywhere near redline but am seriously impressed with the stock power and that is here in the SW FL severe heat and very high humidity none of which are favorable to FI engines.
The motor has proven strong over the years despite some of its oil burning issues over the years. I haven't seen that on the R, but we shall see. The fuel system seems to be having zero issues based on the logs Tim posted. AFR stays north of 14.5 right to redline, so we have plenty of headroom.

My only concern is the timing drops showing up in Tim's logs. I also am not sure why he is seeing 22 lbs of boost when the map he is running should only target 18?
From my understanding and looking at Map 0 logs, stock boost is 16PSI Max, map 2 adds up to 6psi so 22psi would be the limit on the jb4 for now. I ran map 3 and got 18psi max, map 5 got 20psi max and the car didn't feel as refined during those pulls. I didn't wanna do the pulls again so I wasn't able to log them.

This is day 3 of running map 2 and it pulls like a train on the highway, that is where I see majority of the improvement. Overall I'm happy with the set up and think it's worth the money and only 45 min install.
Another positive is that it's a piggy back so you won't get flagged when you go into service which Is major.
If you happen to be running your draggy again, would love to see a 60 to 100 or even 60 to 130 with the JB4.

I'm just concerned that my stock brake boost time vs the one you had with JB4 are very similar. Albeit you had a full tank and I had 1/4 tank.

I tried a burger tune (piggyback) on my '16 F15 50i. It actually made it slower.
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      09-23-2020, 08:05 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thewolfbmw View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim2189 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 130FeetDeep View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyman View Post
^^^^^^This, exactly. Sucks as I would much rather have a true ECM flash. I'll probably give one of these piggy backs a try but just have concerns about the lean conditions that I've seen in these logs.
I read through a few threads about JB4s on another forum and some of the guys claim to have some serious SOTP improvements in M5s and M550is.
How much boost do you think these motors can handle and stay in one piece for say 50,000 miles? My prior experience is with supercharged Ford V8s with Zoeler forged pistons, forged crankshafts, Manley 4340 rods. Going from 8 lbs to say 14 on those 4.6L motors was a profound increase in performance as in going from 13 second 1/4 miles to mid 11s.
I'm nowhere near the break in point on my '21 M50i and have not run it anywhere near redline but am seriously impressed with the stock power and that is here in the SW FL severe heat and very high humidity none of which are favorable to FI engines.
The motor has proven strong over the years despite some of its oil burning issues over the years. I haven't seen that on the R, but we shall see. The fuel system seems to be having zero issues based on the logs Tim posted. AFR stays north of 14.5 right to redline, so we have plenty of headroom.

My only concern is the timing drops showing up in Tim's logs. I also am not sure why he is seeing 22 lbs of boost when the map he is running should only target 18?
From my understanding and looking at Map 0 logs, stock boost is 16PSI Max, map 2 adds up to 6psi so 22psi would be the limit on the jb4 for now. I ran map 3 and got 18psi max, map 5 got 20psi max and the car didn't feel as refined during those pulls. I didn't wanna do the pulls again so I wasn't able to log them.

This is day 3 of running map 2 and it pulls like a train on the highway, that is where I see majority of the improvement. Overall I'm happy with the set up and think it's worth the money and only 45 min install.
Another positive is that it's a piggy back so you won't get flagged when you go into service which Is major.
If you happen to be running your draggy again, would love to see a 60 to 100 or even 60 to 130 with the JB4.

I'm just concerned that my stock brake boost time vs the one you had with JB4 are very similar. Albeit you had a full tank and I had 1/4 tank.

I tried a burger tune (piggyback) on my '16 F15 50i. It actually made it slower.
I can prob do some 40-80 and 60-100 runs, with the roads in NYC I doubt I'll find a spot to go over 100
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      09-23-2020, 08:08 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim2189 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thewolfbmw View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim2189 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 130FeetDeep View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyman View Post
^^^^^^This, exactly. Sucks as I would much rather have a true ECM flash. I'll probably give one of these piggy backs a try but just have concerns about the lean conditions that I've seen in these logs.
I read through a few threads about JB4s on another forum and some of the guys claim to have some serious SOTP improvements in M5s and M550is.
How much boost do you think these motors can handle and stay in one piece for say 50,000 miles? My prior experience is with supercharged Ford V8s with Zoeler forged pistons, forged crankshafts, Manley 4340 rods. Going from 8 lbs to say 14 on those 4.6L motors was a profound increase in performance as in going from 13 second 1/4 miles to mid 11s.
I'm nowhere near the break in point on my '21 M50i and have not run it anywhere near redline but am seriously impressed with the stock power and that is here in the SW FL severe heat and very high humidity none of which are favorable to FI engines.
The motor has proven strong over the years despite some of its oil burning issues over the years. I haven't seen that on the R, but we shall see. The fuel system seems to be having zero issues based on the logs Tim posted. AFR stays north of 14.5 right to redline, so we have plenty of headroom.

My only concern is the timing drops showing up in Tim's logs. I also am not sure why he is seeing 22 lbs of boost when the map he is running should only target 18?
From my understanding and looking at Map 0 logs, stock boost is 16PSI Max, map 2 adds up to 6psi so 22psi would be the limit on the jb4 for now. I ran map 3 and got 18psi max, map 5 got 20psi max and the car didn't feel as refined during those pulls. I didn't wanna do the pulls again so I wasn't able to log them.

This is day 3 of running map 2 and it pulls like a train on the highway, that is where I see majority of the improvement. Overall I'm happy with the set up and think it's worth the money and only 45 min install.
Another positive is that it's a piggy back so you won't get flagged when you go into service which Is major.
If you happen to be running your draggy again, would love to see a 60 to 100 or even 60 to 130 with the JB4.

I'm just concerned that my stock brake boost time vs the one you had with JB4 are very similar. Albeit you had a full tank and I had 1/4 tank.

I tried a burger tune (piggyback) on my '16 F15 50i. It actually made it slower.
I can prob do some 40-80 and 60-100 runs, with the roads in NYC I doubt I'll find a spot to go over 100
Awesome and that makes sense. During Covid shutdown, the highways upstate where like my own private test track.
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      09-23-2020, 08:11 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thewolfbmw View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim2189 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thewolfbmw View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim2189 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 130FeetDeep View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyman View Post
^^^^^^This, exactly. Sucks as I would much rather have a true ECM flash. I'll probably give one of these piggy backs a try but just have concerns about the lean conditions that I've seen in these logs.
I read through a few threads about JB4s on another forum and some of the guys claim to have some serious SOTP improvements in M5s and M550is.
How much boost do you think these motors can handle and stay in one piece for say 50,000 miles? My prior experience is with supercharged Ford V8s with Zoeler forged pistons, forged crankshafts, Manley 4340 rods. Going from 8 lbs to say 14 on those 4.6L motors was a profound increase in performance as in going from 13 second 1/4 miles to mid 11s.
I'm nowhere near the break in point on my '21 M50i and have not run it anywhere near redline but am seriously impressed with the stock power and that is here in the SW FL severe heat and very high humidity none of which are favorable to FI engines.
The motor has proven strong over the years despite some of its oil burning issues over the years. I haven't seen that on the R, but we shall see. The fuel system seems to be having zero issues based on the logs Tim posted. AFR stays north of 14.5 right to redline, so we have plenty of headroom.

My only concern is the timing drops showing up in Tim's logs. I also am not sure why he is seeing 22 lbs of boost when the map he is running should only target 18?
From my understanding and looking at Map 0 logs, stock boost is 16PSI Max, map 2 adds up to 6psi so 22psi would be the limit on the jb4 for now. I ran map 3 and got 18psi max, map 5 got 20psi max and the car didn't feel as refined during those pulls. I didn't wanna do the pulls again so I wasn't able to log them.

This is day 3 of running map 2 and it pulls like a train on the highway, that is where I see majority of the improvement. Overall I'm happy with the set up and think it's worth the money and only 45 min install.
Another positive is that it's a piggy back so you won't get flagged when you go into service which Is major.
If you happen to be running your draggy again, would love to see a 60 to 100 or even 60 to 130 with the JB4.

I'm just concerned that my stock brake boost time vs the one you had with JB4 are very similar. Albeit you had a full tank and I had 1/4 tank.

I tried a burger tune (piggyback) on my '16 F15 50i. It actually made it slower.
I can prob do some 40-80 and 60-100 runs, with the roads in NYC I doubt I'll find a spot to go over 100
Awesome and that makes sense. During Covid shutdown, the highways upstate where like my own private test track.
During quarantine my daily commute was 20 mins, now I'm back to 45 mins

There's usually a nice stretch of road on my way home so I'll see if I can get some times in
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      09-23-2020, 08:56 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyman View Post
14.5 afr is pretty darn lean for FI or is that OK on these motors? I've been away from this stuff for at least 10 years maybe things have really changed. The tunes we used and tweaked never went over 12.8 at the absolute most. afrs in the 14.5 range on a forced induction motor on the street were unheard of.
We are DI motor. The high pressure on the injectors atomizes fuel exceptionally well, so targeting 12.x:1 days on most BMWs are long gone. You can see the stock AFR is virtually identical.
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      09-24-2020, 08:20 AM   #60
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We are DI motor. The high pressure on the injectors atomizes fuel exceptionally well, so targeting 12.x:1 days on most BMWs are long gone. You can see the stock AFR is virtually identical.
OK, Gotcha, makes sense when put in that perspective. Never would have thought about the effects of direct injection. Thought I was crazy looking at those logs but like I said it has been over a decade since I've really looked at this stuff. Knew there had to be something else going on here with the fueling. If you posted a log of a FI engine with a 14.5 afr across the board it would have raised a huge red flag. Things change and this can explain why even more power per liter is possible. Thanks for taking the time to bring me up to date.
This is really a great forum!

Last edited by speedyman; 09-24-2020 at 08:27 AM..
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      09-24-2020, 08:23 AM   #61
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I can prob do some 40-80 and 60-100 runs, with the roads in NYC I doubt I'll find a spot to go over 100
How does your M50i feel with the JB4 at lower speeds say when you step on the gas at 10, 20, or 30 MPH, nice bump?
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      09-24-2020, 09:03 AM   #62
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I can prob do some 40-80 and 60-100 runs, with the roads in NYC I doubt I'll find a spot to go over 100
How does your M50i feel with the JB4 at lower speeds say when you step on the gas at 10, 20, or 30 MPH, nice bump?
You still feel the difference in city driving just not as much as highway, on the highway it pulls like a train
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      09-24-2020, 03:22 PM   #63
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You still feel the difference in city driving just not as much as highway, on the highway it pulls like a train
Sounds good Tim. I'm looking forward to getting more break in miles and then installing the JB4 myself.
I can't tell from the pics of the install instructions, are the TMAP sensor connections on the grill or firewall side of the intercoolers? I think I can see the TMAP sensor on the grill side of the intercooler on passenger side but can't make it out on the driver side intercooler. I didn't remove the brace or plastic ducting as of yet.
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      09-24-2020, 05:42 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Tim2189 View Post
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Originally Posted by 130FeetDeep View Post
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Originally Posted by speedyman View Post
^^^^^^This, exactly. Sucks as I would much rather have a true ECM flash. I'll probably give one of these piggy backs a try but just have concerns about the lean conditions that I've seen in these logs.
I read through a few threads about JB4s on another forum and some of the guys claim to have some serious SOTP improvements in M5s and M550is.
How much boost do you think these motors can handle and stay in one piece for say 50,000 miles? My prior experience is with supercharged Ford V8s with Zoeler forged pistons, forged crankshafts, Manley 4340 rods. Going from 8 lbs to say 14 on those 4.6L motors was a profound increase in performance as in going from 13 second 1/4 miles to mid 11s.
I'm nowhere near the break in point on my '21 M50i and have not run it anywhere near redline but am seriously impressed with the stock power and that is here in the SW FL severe heat and very high humidity none of which are favorable to FI engines.
The motor has proven strong over the years despite some of its oil burning issues over the years. I haven't seen that on the R, but we shall see. The fuel system seems to be having zero issues based on the logs Tim posted. AFR stays north of 14.5 right to redline, so we have plenty of headroom.

My only concern is the timing drops showing up in Tim's logs. I also am not sure why he is seeing 22 lbs of boost when the map he is running should only target 18?
From my understanding and looking at Map 0 logs, stock boost is 16PSI Max, map 2 adds up to 6psi so 22psi would be the limit on the jb4 for now. I ran map 3 and got 18psi max, map 5 got 20psi max and the car didn't feel as refined during those pulls. I didn't wanna do the pulls again so I wasn't able to log them.

This is day 3 of running map 2 and it pulls like a train on the highway, that is where I see majority of the improvement. Overall I'm happy with the set up and think it's worth the money and only 45 min install.
Another positive is that it's a piggy back so you won't get flagged when you go into service which Is major.
If you happen to be running your draggy again, would love to see a 60 to 100 or even 60 to 130 with the JB4.

I'm just concerned that my stock brake boost time vs the one you had with JB4 are very similar. Albeit you had a full tank and I had 1/4 tank.

I tried a burger tune (piggyback) on my '16 F15 50i. It actually made it slower.
I was able to get these 3 runs in before hitting traffic
This is on map 2
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      09-24-2020, 07:48 PM   #65
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Awesome!

How did it feel? I mean, did it still feel like it was pulling hard?

I am going to run some stock ones this weekend.
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      09-24-2020, 08:12 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thewolfbmw View Post
Awesome!

How did it feel? I mean, did it still feel like it was pulling hard?

I am going to run some stock ones this weekend.
It was Deff still pulling hard around the 110 mark but had to slow down for traffic, it will easily do 130+ no issues
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