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      08-27-2020, 12:07 PM   #1
gpretired
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Stop Sale: How long would you wait ....

before you placed a new order.

My BMW 45E has been on stop sale hold at the dealer for 2 weeks in conjunction with the 'battery welding issue' noted in earlier posts. So far they cannot tell me if:

1) if my car is actually defective
2) what the repair process would be
3) when it could be repaired.

It seems that I am in indefinite hold on the issue for an indeterminate amount of time.

I as seriously considering pulling the plug on this car (no pun intended) and just ordering a new one.

Thoughts and opinions would be welcome as my frustration level rises by the day.
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      08-27-2020, 12:24 PM   #2
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Strange. I called my dealer, they checked their systems and said my car is not involved.
So they could certainly tell you if your car is involved or not.
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      08-27-2020, 02:19 PM   #3
gpretired
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Thanks for feedback.

Alas, I think my car is involved, as they will not sell it to me.

In a detailed discussion with the service tech after they inspected my car, i got the following limited info:

1) My cars Vin is in the list of stop sale cars (obviously)
2) My battery date codes were not in the list of defective date codes
3) My car battery had not been charged
4) He would not say that the car was found to be defective and thus was in need of repair
5) All this info was sent to the factory, and he has not heard back. There is nothing for him to do until he hear's back. This was 10 days ago.

With very little real info from BMW, there is no way for me to determine whether to hold on or order new, but I am getting tired of an open ended wait...
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      08-27-2020, 07:17 PM   #4
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It is highly unlikely there will be any permanent/future damage due to this issue so you don't need to worry about that. At this point it is just how long you want to wait but my guess is waiting for it to be released will be less than waiting for a new one to be built.

I can imagine it is really aggravating/disappointing but things do happen. So very few 45e's are included in the recall that you just happened to be very unlucky.

Let us know how things turn out.
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      08-27-2020, 09:22 PM   #5
gpretired
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Thanks for your perspective. Given very little real knowledge about the issue:

I also believe it is unlikely that the problem will not be resolved to anything other than a new state, so no post fix issues.

Which time will be shorter, buy new or wait for repair, is a crapshoot from my perspective. It would seem that ordering a new unit would take longer, but there could be supply chain issues where repair of unsold inventory would be lower priority than new car builds. If so, it might be a long time...

I know stuff happens, and I got the short stick. I am ok with that. But it seems the BMW factory is holding back information that would help me make the right decision.

I plan to decide tomorrow, I'm thinking of just waiting for the repair. Yesterday, I was new order. I have to move on and decouple from getting my car.

I ordered the car in June to get into the first builds in July. If I had waited, I would likely be getting a new car sooner, who would have guessed?
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      08-28-2020, 05:42 AM   #6
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Hi TurtleBoy,

Thanks for the update, Im just wondering if you give a bit more information on the numbers of 45E's caught up in this?

The only information that I can find regarding this problem is the initial reports in the media but they are very general citing just over 4,000 vehicles worldwide across a lot of models, most of which have not been delivered to customers as yet.

Im based in Ireland and I my new 45E is in the country, but i wont be taking delivery until the end of next week (VAT is being reduced by 2% here on 1st September so Im saving some money by delaying).

I had asked my dealer if my vehicle is caught up in this but I have not had an answer and Im getting worried that they might be stalling.

I don't know if the problem with the welding beads is inside the battery unit or outside. Do they have to remove the batter and take it apart to do the inspection?

No disrespect to the guys working here in the workshops, but I would imagine that there are very few of them with very much experience working on these batteries, and Im not keen of them gaining their experience on mine!!! Its one thing replacing a battery, its something else repairing it.

Also, Its not a nice thought to have that your brand spanking new car that you paid €120K might have to be taken apart and repaired before you even get to see it!

Any clarity would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Jason



Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleBoy View Post
It is highly unlikely there will be any permanent/future damage due to this issue so you don't need to worry about that. At this point it is just how long you want to wait but my guess is waiting for it to be released will be less than waiting for a new one to be built.

I can imagine it is really aggravating/disappointing but things do happen. So very few 45e's are included in the recall that you just happened to be very unlucky.

Let us know how things turn out.
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      08-28-2020, 06:51 AM   #7
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Sorry jayo , I don't have any specifics. We have probably read the same articles. I was just extrapolating the numbers given all those models.

Given how they track everything during production they probably know by VIN which vehicles have the suspect batteries. That is why you continue to see people posting that they picked up their 45e. I would have thought they would just replace the batteries on any that were bad and not have the local guys make any inspection or determination but who knows.

I hope you get yours when you are expecting it.
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      08-28-2020, 07:08 AM   #8
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Thanks TurtleBoy

European deliverys tend to take a good bit longer on the 45E, so even though mine landed in Ireland last week, it was production week 26-06-2020 so i fall in the date range.

There is a VIN recall checker and mine is not showing anything at the moment, but I guess technically its not a recall because it hasn't been delivered to me.

The articles I have read suggest that the first stage is an inspection, and then there is some kind of remedial work depending on the outcome.

If was just a case of simply replacing the battery I would be happy enough with that, but I am worried that there seems to be talk of repairing the issue in the batteries rather than replacing them.

Fingers crossed anyway - the suspense of knowing my new car is here and I may have to wait is killing me

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurtleBoy View Post
Sorry jayo , I don't have any specifics. We have probably read the same articles. I was just extrapolating the numbers given all those models.

Given how they track everything during production they probably know by VIN which vehicles have the suspect batteries. That is why you continue to see people posting that they picked up their 45e. I would have thought they would just replace the batteries on any that were bad and not have the local guys make any inspection or determination but who knows.

I hope you get yours when you are expecting it.
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      08-28-2020, 07:12 AM   #9
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There is always Cayenne e-hybrid.
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      08-28-2020, 10:04 AM   #10
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jayo,

My dealer is very closed on providing any information wrt this problem as I noted above.

I suspect that if your car was built prior to early August, it is probably included in the stop sale and will need to be inspected once it arrives at the dealer, as was mine. And as I said, even after the inspection, they would not even say whether it was defective, only that they could not sell it.

The nature of the repair for defective units remains private BMW information and has not been shared with the public.

Your dealer can check to see if your vin is in the affected group. They know the answer. The sooner you know that piece of information, the sooner you could make the critical decision of wait vs re-order. Had I known in early August, I would have re-ordered, now I just wait....
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      08-28-2020, 10:19 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpretired View Post
before you placed a new order.

My BMW 45E has been on stop sale hold at the dealer for 2 weeks in conjunction with the 'battery welding issue' noted in earlier posts. So far they cannot tell me if:

1) if my car is actually defective
2) what the repair process would be
3) when it could be repaired.

It seems that I am in indefinite hold on the issue for an indeterminate amount of time.

I as seriously considering pulling the plug on this car (no pun intended) and just ordering a new one.

Thoughts and opinions would be welcome as my frustration level rises by the day.
Since this is just an opinion thread, here's mine. No one "needs" an X5, pass on this one and either wait a while after all fixes are in place or buy something else.
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      08-28-2020, 11:06 AM   #12
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Absolutely Marty, but its not just that simple.

Ordering a X5 45E in Europe involves a long wait time, and I was lucky compared with many of the others who have had to wait longer than me.

But my order was placed in January for an end of June delivery. Because of COVID I have already had a significant delay to my order.

My order includes a lot of options, some of which are no longer available, and in Ireland there is not many dealer stock cars to choose from, almost all orders are factory orders.

If I have to go and re-order again I will be going to the back of the queue and thats not something I would be looking forward to.

Other people are tied into leases so they need to change their car. For me, if I have to hold on to my current car it is going to be worth less when I got to trade it in if I have to wait until 2021

So, do I need the X5 now - I wont die, but it would be a serious pain in the ass if I had to order again!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty in NY View Post
Since this is just an opinion thread, here's mine. No one "needs" an X5, pass on this one and either wait a while after all fixes are in place or buy something else.
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      08-28-2020, 12:49 PM   #13
gpretired
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Hi jayo,

Once your car get's to the dealer, he should inspect the car and let you know if it can be sold. The fact that he does not reply to your request of whether it is in the stop sale list is not encouraging (just a lookup of Vin numbers and the service bulletin / recall). If the inspection does not release your car (whatever that means), you will likely be in the same spot as me, indeterminate wait.

I hope for your sake that it is not in the 'list'.

For me I have decided to wait for a repair and live with all the unknown implications of time and possible repair complexity. As I noted in previous posts, "I got the short end of the stick and have to live with it.
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      08-28-2020, 02:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHunk View Post
There is always Cayenne e-hybrid.
Because of the higher CO2 the Cayenne Hybrid is considered a fake hybrid in many European countries and doesn't have the tax advantages of a "real" PHEV. The tax difference is huge. The difference can be more than 10 K a year. So in Europe this is not an alternative. The 45e is the only 6 cylinder real PHEV with a good tax regime.
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      08-28-2020, 02:44 PM   #15
gpretired
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Marty,

I am currently working on Maslov's hierarchy of needs https://www.thoughtco.com/maslows-hi...-needs-4582571. I have currently completed stage 4. When I get my new X5 45e I will achieve stage 5. Having already looked at other vehicles, only the X5 45e gets me to stage 5.

On the other hand, waiting till this gets sorted out might be the prudent thing to do. It seems that all models built after August 8th have no battery defects, so that seems sorted out.
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      08-28-2020, 02:52 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpretired View Post
Marty,

I am currently working on Maslov's hierarchy of needs https://www.thoughtco.com/maslows-hi...-needs-4582571. I have currently completed stage 4. When I get my new X5 45e I will achieve stage 5. Having already looked at other vehicles, only the X5 45e gets me to stage 5.

On the other hand, waiting till this gets sorted out might be the prudent thing to do. It seems that all models built after August 8th have no battery defects, so that seems sorted out.
haven't heard that one in quite a while, ok, I get it. Good one gpretired and of course they don't call it a hierarchy of needs for nothing!

Well, I'm still on the first basic level and its almost 4pm, I need a beer, see ya.
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      08-28-2020, 05:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X5 45e View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHunk View Post
There is always Cayenne e-hybrid.
Because of the higher CO2 the Cayenne Hybrid is considered a fake hybrid in many European countries and doesn't have the tax advantages of a "real" PHEV. The tax difference is huge. The difference can be more than 10 K a year. So in Europe this is not an alternative. The 45e is the only 6 cylinder real PHEV with a good tax regime.
Yes, Cayenne is more performance oriented 5.0 vs 5.7(45e) 0-100kmh.
Sorry, not familiar with those C02 taxes.
Here in Canada(USA also) pricing is very similar little over 90t$(+tax) is cost for 45e, m50i and Cayenne e-hybrid.
But feel free to tell me how does those C02 taxes work in the EU.
btw cell app doesn't display location.
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      08-28-2020, 11:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHunk View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by X5 45e View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHunk View Post
There is always Cayenne e-hybrid.
Because of the higher CO2 the Cayenne Hybrid is considered a fake hybrid in many European countries and doesn't have the tax advantages of a "real" PHEV. The tax difference is huge. The difference can be more than 10 K a year. So in Europe this is not an alternative. The 45e is the only 6 cylinder real PHEV with a good tax regime.
Yes, Cayenne is more performance oriented 5.0 vs 5.7(45e) 0-100kmh.
Sorry, not familiar with those C02 taxes.
Here in Canada(USA also) pricing is very similar little over 90t$(+tax) is cost for 45e, m50i and Cayenne e-hybrid.
But feel free to tell me how does those C02 taxes work in the EU.
btw cell app doesn't display location.
You can see the location of the author in the app if you click on the name or picture.

Some countries add a tax on the sale price depending on C02 and new price. With high values in expensive cars the tax can be more than the price it self.

In Belgium if the car is on your company (most x5's are) you are personally taxed for the benefit. This depends on new price and CO2. The difference between a 45e and a 50i is more than 12 K a year just tax. And the tax deductibility of costs for the company depends on CO2. For a 45e it is 100% for a 50i 40%. This is for renting, tires, maintenance, .... So 1000 euro spent on the 45e are 1000 costs and 270 euro less tax. On the 50i only 400 euro in costs and 108 euro less tax.

The tax difference after driving it 4-5 years is so big that these big suv are difficult to sell here

To be considered a real PHEV CO2 must be lower than 50 and the battery capacity needs to be big enough KWH vs weight of the vehicle. The only PHEV suv currently having this are the X5 and GLE. The rest are considered fake and taxed with CO2 values of a normal Cayenne / XC90 / RR sport / Q7. So not interesting for companies.
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      08-29-2020, 02:36 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpretired View Post
jayo,

My dealer is very closed on providing any information wrt this problem as I noted above.

I suspect that if your car was built prior to early August, it is probably included in the stop sale and will need to be inspected once it arrives at the dealer, as was mine. And as I said, even after the inspection, they would not even say whether it was defective, only that they could not sell it.

The nature of the repair for defective units remains private BMW information and has not been shared with the public.

Your dealer can check to see if your vin is in the affected group. They know the answer. The sooner you know that piece of information, the sooner you could make the critical decision of wait vs re-order. Had I known in early August, I would have re-ordered, now I just wait....
I find this thread in G20 forum. May give you some insight

330e delivery halt https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1749649
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      08-29-2020, 04:11 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X5 45e View Post
In Belgium if the car is on your company (most x5's are) you are personally taxed for the benefit. This depends on new price and CO2. The difference between a 45e and a 50i is more than 12 K a year just tax. And the tax deductibility of costs for the company depends on CO2. For a 45e it is 100% for a 50i 40%. This is for renting, tires, maintenance, .... So 1000 euro spent on the 45e are 1000 costs and 270 euro less tax. On the 50i only 400 euro in costs and 108 euro less tax.
In Finland you pay a car tax (and VAT) when you buy a car. Car tax depends on the emissions: For the base model X5 45e the tax is about 2600 eur (3100 USD), but for X5 M the tax is 97400 eur (116000 USD). You pay the tax for any options as well, so if the tax percentage is high, the options will also cost you a lot more.

In addition, you pay a yearly tax which is also based on the emissions and if your car uses any other fuel than gasoline, you pay an extra tax every year (fortunately, this tax is low for the 45e).

And our fuel is among the most expensive in Europe and roads are very bad..
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      08-29-2020, 04:27 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biterror View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by X5 45e View Post
In Belgium if the car is on your company (most x5's are) you are personally taxed for the benefit. This depends on new price and CO2. The difference between a 45e and a 50i is more than 12 K a year just tax. And the tax deductibility of costs for the company depends on CO2. For a 45e it is 100% for a 50i 40%. This is for renting, tires, maintenance, .... So 1000 euro spent on the 45e are 1000 costs and 270 euro less tax. On the 50i only 400 euro in costs and 108 euro less tax.
In Finland you pay a car tax (and VAT) when you buy a car. Car tax depends on the emissions: For the base model X5 45e the tax is about 2600 eur (3100 USD), but for X5 M the tax is 97400 eur (116000 USD). You pay the tax for any options as well, so if the tax percentage is high, the options will also cost you a lot more.

In addition, you pay a yearly tax which is also based on the emissions and if your car uses any other fuel than gasoline, you pay an extra tax every year (fortunately, this tax is low for the 45e).

And our fuel is among the most expensive in Europe and roads are very bad..
That is indeed what I thought. So in Finland the tax is actually more than the price of the car.
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      08-29-2020, 05:00 AM   #22
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Don't you occasionally wish that Russia had annexed Finland after the war? You would still have the same crappy roads, but much lower fuel prices and vehicle taxes - and dirt-cheap alcohol.
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