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      10-14-2020, 10:47 AM   #309
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I'm surprised the FIA hasn't spotted that Mercedes are running a 5 ltr V8.
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      10-14-2020, 11:01 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Straight from the Schumacher playbook....The Verstappens will insist on any Albon replacement not being too quick.
Strongly disagree on that. Max is being actively hurt by the fact that he doesn't have a competent teammate. Especially because they are down on pace to the Mercedes, Redbull needs two fast drivers to be able to apply pressure to the Mercs and run under/overcuts.

A Hulk or Perez at RB next year would only help Max.
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      10-14-2020, 12:25 PM   #311
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Originally Posted by CalAcacian View Post
Strongly disagree on that. Max is being actively hurt by the fact that he doesn't have a competent teammate. Especially because they are down on pace to the Mercedes, Redbull needs two fast drivers to be able to apply pressure to the Mercs and run under/overcuts.
A Hulk or Perez at RB next year would only help Max.
One of the key reasons that Schumacher had such a high race/win ratio was insisting on being the absolute number one driver and having a subservient less competent team mate.

Both Verstappens know the benefit of this strategy....a team that has two drivers with similar levels of performance will see the wins shared between drivers and the chance of a DWC greatly reduced....2007 was a perfect example and Alonso was correct in telling Ron Dennis that by not making him their number 1 driver was going to cost McLaren the DWC.

But more important for Max Verstappen at RB is that having a weak team mate improves his reputation as one of the top drivers (while his slower team mate struggles in the *same* car).
Verstappen can't afford to be beaten again as he was by Ricciardo in their ~ two years together.

Last edited by SenorFunkyPants; 10-14-2020 at 12:39 PM..
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      10-14-2020, 12:46 PM   #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Mate look in my post above in #288 : I was talking about the smart "GREY ZONE" !
It's there ! There in that grey zone were all the messy cheating happens !

As you know the FIA = Financial speculation .
The FIA s@cks mate . Someone should ban the FIA !
Meanwhile the FIA is 100% responsible for the boring races of the last 6 seasons !

Jean Todt ! Give me a break !!!
well its a tradition mate... Ferrari is like a favorite kid in the family.. i do respect their history its great.. but even history of FIA has such things like this.. and probably more to come..

but Merc' is not cheating.. they re being inspected much much more now cause other teams putting a lot of pressure on FIA.. i love the team itself.. but tagging a team as a cheater is just execution without due process.. but Ferraris case is another level.. i agree it doesnt smell good..

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalAcacian View Post
Strongly disagree on that. Max is being actively hurt by the fact that he doesn't have a competent teammate. Especially because they are down on pace to the Mercedes, Redbull needs two fast drivers to be able to apply pressure to the Mercs and run under/overcuts.

A Hulk or Perez at RB next year would only help Max.
and i have to disagree with you.. driving good under pressure all those things aside not even commenting on that part.. Red Bull use Albon as a test pilot as well.. its clearly known now..

on Friday at German GP, Albon had a different chassis cause Red Bull is on a new suspension design that needs a different chassis.. who would try that Albon.. instead of doing high fuel runs, setup changes, quali sims Albon was about to try the unknown new chassis.. he could be faster but at the same not.. this year Albon's car wasnt even the same with Max at most of the races source Helmut Marko.. there is a limit that driver can cover for the car.. Max said few days ago, they re trying to soften the car a bit.. rear and front wise.. this years car as known as has nervous back end.. when drivability starts to go down by such things each time you push you have to take more risk.. this cars setup is good for late braking diving cause it was understeering less i believe thats the strongest part..
but if you remember Max was telling on radio car keeps understeering at German GP.. Red Bull is changing its characteristic of the car a bit.. but from your approach to Albon he is not in fair game.. yet..

and yes covering for Max could be nice some time to time but being the absolute #1 in the team is not that bad for Max at all.. team is around him for constructors point of view Red Bulls clear target was being number 2 again.. in my humble point of view.. when Red Bull gets faster, you cant sacrifice only one driver for parts to gather data.. it needs to be split between 2 for not losing points in total.. and Albon got his new engineer just few races ago.. Albon is a promising driver but his conditions is not ideal.. he might not performing %100 but at least %30-40 of his low performance is coming from he is being used as a test driver for Max.. i guess its better to judge him a bit more fairly in that case..

Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
One of the key reasons that Schumacher had such a high race/win ratio was insisting on being the absolute number one driver and having a subservient less competent team mate.

Both Verstappens know the benefit of this strategy....a team that has two drivers with similar levels of performance will see the wins shared between drivers and the chance of a DWC greatly reduced....2007 was a perfect example and Alonso was correct in telling Ron Dennis that by not making him their number 1 driver was going to cost McLaren the DWC.

But more important for Max Verstappen at RB is that having a weak team mate improves his reputation as one of the top drivers (while his slower team mate struggles in the *same* car).
Verstappen can't afford to be beaten again as he was by Ricciardo in their ~ two years together.
i agree with other part except Alonso's will cause they just lost it 1 point.. did they lost it yes but at some point if Alonso would a bit more fair to like in Hungary race they might win it.. and one more thing Albon's car is really not the same with Max Red Bull stated that as i ve mentioned above..
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      10-14-2020, 01:27 PM   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yco View Post

i agree with other part except Alonso's will cause they just lost it 1 point.. did they lost it yes but at some point if Alonso would a bit more fair to like in Hungary race they might win it..
It has been stated that Alonso joined McLaren on the understanding that he would be their #1 driver.
If Hamilton had been told by McLaren to let Alonso by every time he was ahead in a race then Alonso/McLaren would have walked the 2007 DWC.
Or vice versa if Alonso had moved over for Hamilton in the same way then he would have won the DWC easily before Brazil.
There is quite a strong case for having a strict #1 driver and #2 driver hierarchy in an F1 team.
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      10-14-2020, 01:39 PM   #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyPeaches View Post
Since we're leaving stuff here....

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/64680...-the-w11-.html

"Honda is closest to Mercedes when it comes to pure power. The engine manufacturer is 28 HP behind. Renault now lags 37 HP, while Ferrari has 42 less HP to use than Mercedes."
Oh boy...objective realities and facts!!!! This won't go well. Not well, at all!!
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      10-14-2020, 03:20 PM   #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
I'm surprised the FIA hasn't spotted that Mercedes are running a 5 ltr V8.
Don't be silly. They are running a smaller prototype version of the engine in the diagram, below...named after Dr. Z, former chairman at Mercedes. He gave the go-ahead to develop this technology in advance of the 2014 regulations. It will sunset once the 2026 regulations take effect and the technology will be transferred to NASA for space exploration.

Cheers-mk
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      10-14-2020, 03:50 PM   #316
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      10-14-2020, 04:03 PM   #317
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So THAT'S where the 28 extra HP comes from!
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      10-14-2020, 04:52 PM   #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
I find the speculation about Mercedes cheating to be hilarious. Looking at the demographic of Mercedes owners, the risk averse nature of the board, and the downside risk to the brand that may result from cheating, ANYONE who has a modicum of the knowledge of corporate governance would know that it won't happen.

Now let's look at the demographic of a Red Bull customer and their target audience: Red Bull target customer segment represent busy individuals who are overly active in their personal and professional lives and who have are fascinated by extreme sports. Red Bull can, has, and will tolerate cheating. It may actually enhance the brand.

Cheers-mk
Not hilarious for the other nine teams that have to suffer a Merc GP nearly every time.
Merc corporation, the very name would ensure a huge almost impenetrable security net around any anomalies I would imagine.
You have a good day now.
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      10-14-2020, 05:51 PM   #319
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I don't know if this has been posted before .....but in case not, Mercedes F1 have their own youtube channel and do a post race debrief.

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      10-14-2020, 06:05 PM   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyPeaches View Post
Since we're leaving stuff here....

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/64680...-the-w11-.html

"Honda is closest to Mercedes when it comes to pure power. The engine manufacturer is 28 HP behind. Renault now lags 37 HP, while Ferrari has 42 less HP to use than Mercedes."
Well said.. 1 sec. faster over one lap is a sea of time !
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      10-14-2020, 07:41 PM   #321
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Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
150+hp doesn't come from a split turbo,DAS passed and tyre cooling passed so as you read already Todt has black colour under pants as well as red
Check this out my friend !
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      10-14-2020, 08:50 PM   #322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Well said.. 1 sec. faster over one lap is a sea of time !
Absolutely it is. But, let's stop with the nonsense that its because the Mercs have 150+ more horsepower.
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      10-15-2020, 05:09 AM   #323
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Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Check this out my friend !
Interesting my friend but let's look at Eifel from another perspective. BOT passed HAM for the first time fair and square...(but he's no.2 and shouldn't happen... Schumacher snr's race helmet was ready...did Toto pull plug and it's the first dnf for Merc this year, it's an unhealthy stack of events.
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      10-15-2020, 05:36 AM   #324
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Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
Interesting my friend but let's look at Eifel from another perspective. BOT passed HAM for the first time fair and square...(but he's no.2 and shouldn't happen... Schumacher snr's race helmet was ready...did Toto pull plug and it's the first dnf for Merc this year, it's an unhealthy stack of events.
Yes my friend . That's what I was thinking during the race as well ...
I thought , is this situation coincidental or actually suspicious !

Of course we'll never know ...
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      10-15-2020, 05:52 AM   #325
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Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Yes my friend . That's what I was thinking during the race as well ...
I thought , is this situation coincidental or actually suspicious !

Of course we'll never know ...
As I have said, the Merc corporation would have a cast iron ring of steel failsafe in place for 'explanation' of BOT car turning into a clapped out Skoda.
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      10-15-2020, 06:39 AM   #326
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Not hilarious for the other nine teams that have to suffer a Merc GP nearly every time.
Merc corporation, the very name would ensure a huge almost impenetrable security net around any anomalies I would imagine.
You have a good day now.
The thing is, we have 2 separate categories of competing. Driver's, and Constructor's championships.

Drivers being equal, the better car will net more wins.

So why are you going after Daimler for developing a better car AND having better drivers?

Go after Red Bull for developing an inferior car. Had they done a better design job, maybe the driver could achieve better results.
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      10-15-2020, 07:17 AM   #327
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Originally Posted by 5.M0NSTER View Post
The thing is, we have 2 separate categories of competing. Driver's, and Constructor's championships.

Drivers being equal, the better car will net more wins.

So why are you going after Daimler for developing a better car AND having better drivers?

Go after Red Bull for developing an inferior car. Had they done a better design job, maybe the driver could achieve better results.
This was reported in February 2017,Lauda passed away in May 2019 and did not deny saying it. Merc had huge advantage when hybrids brought in it's not only RB who lost out.
https://www.grandprix247.com/2017/02...ne-since-2007/
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      10-15-2020, 07:25 AM   #328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M5theonlyone View Post
This was reported in February 2017,Lauda passed away in May 2019 and did not deny saying it. Merc had huge advantage when hybrids brought in it's not only RB who lost out.
https://www.grandprix247.com/2017/02...ne-since-2007/
And Merc is likely already working on the PU for 2026 and beyond.

So my question is why were all others so short sighted then, and why aren't they working on next gen PUs now?

Merc will only secure their future victories by being long sighted. None of this is cheating. It's strategic thinking. When you plan far enough ahead, you give yourself the time to develop better solutions sooner, and give yourself more options in the possible solution space.
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      10-15-2020, 08:11 AM   #329
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All F1 engine manufacturers knew 5 years in advance what the new engine regs would be.
As noted its just sour grapes to blame Merc for doing a better job.
Note that no one is crying about what a great job Red Bull has done with its superior aero package.
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      10-15-2020, 09:01 AM   #330
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It was up but taken down rather quickly, I was told. I imagine this will upset a few...

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