[bmw_lover1]

I'd like to add the M Sport Brakes to a 45e build I'm doing, but in doing so, it will add on the M Sport Package, which means I lose the running boards (and I want those).

Can anyone chime in on whether the M Sport Brakes are worth it for this car? Are they actually worth upgrading to the M Sport line (instead of xLine) and losing the running boards?

[Spencer518]

Unless you plan to track the car, the M Sport brakes are overkill, IMO. The stock brakes are more than adequate. Just buy them if you think the look is worth the money

[TXSchnee]

M Sport brakes have better feel and modulation compared to the base brakes. They are worth it for that alone, in my opinion. Nothing to do with tracking a car, they aren't ceramic, just upgraded pads and rotors.

[Pateeke81]

Most braking with the 45e is done with regen, so not using the normal brakes.
When looking at my charge meter, you need to brake quite hard before the actual brakes take over. The last 10mph to 0 are done with the normal brakes.

No need for them, I only have because my wife liked the of the m-pack better.

[X5 45e]

Originally Posted by TXSchnee

M Sport brakes have better feel and modulation compared to the base brakes. They are worth it for that alone, in my opinion. Nothing to do with tracking a car, they aren't ceramic, just upgraded pads and rotors.

I think it all depends on (your sporty) driving style. I dared to say it again. 😂

I have never experienced a moment in my 27 years of driving where I felt my brakes didn't have enough braking power. And that probably tells something about my driving style.

The 45e with its extra weight isn't really a car for fast corners and a sporty driving style and it kind of makes you drive less aggressive.

So like mentioned, I also try to use regenerative braking as much as possible.

In Belgium they come standard with M pack anyway. I like the look of the blue calipers. They match well with the blue of the laser light which I also took for the looks only. I think I might have taken the M brakes as a separate option too. But you can only spent your money once. There are options that are more worth it. Like IAS, merino leather, HK sound, ...

[LexxM3]

The running boards are widely reported as non-functional (or actually anti-functional: they make it harder to get in and out of the car).

The M Sport brakes are both functional and a safety optimization.

All comments that you don't need best available brakes in daily driving because you usually don't need them completely miss the point of ALL safety systems, all of which you only need 0.5% of the time ... but when you need them, you REALLY need them. Best available brakes are not about daily driving, they are about emergency braking.

The decision seems rather trivially self-evident.

[TXSchnee]

Originally Posted by X5 45e

I think it all depends on (your sporty) driving style. I dared to say it again. 😂

I have never experienced a moment in my 27 years of driving where I felt my brakes didn't have enough braking power. And that probably tells something about my driving style.

The 45e with its extra weight isn't really a car for fast corners and a sporty driving style and it kind of makes you drive less aggressive.

So like mentioned, I also try to use regenerative braking as much as possible.

In Belgium they come standard with M pack anyway. I like the look of the blue calipers. They match well with the blue of the laser light which I also took for the looks only. I think I might have taken the M brakes as a separate option too. But you can only spent your money once. There are options that are more worth it. Like IAS, merino leather, HK sound, ...

People in the US cannot order IAS with the 45e. BMWNA has really decontented their US models for 2021. For example, we have never been able to get DHP for the 40i G05, even though you could on the 35i F15. It is pretty sad.

[X5 45e]

Originally Posted by LexxM3

The running boards are widely reported as non-functional (or actually anti-functional: they make it harder to get in and out of the car).

The M Sport brakes are both functional and a safety optimization.

All comments that you don't need best available brakes in daily driving because you usually don't need them completely miss the point of ALL safety systems, all of which you only need 0.5% of the time ... but when you need them, you REALLY need them. Best available brakes are not about daily driving, they are about emergency braking.

The decision seems rather trivially self-evident.

We had a really long and interesting discussion about this last week in another thread.

If I remember well the consensus was that both brakes would stop the car within the same braking distance but the M brakes would keep braking power longer with sportive driving. But maybe I have to look into this again. It was quite an animated discussion and I may have missed the point.

I am very concerned about safety and have all the safety features. So I am glad I have the M brakes if what you say true of course.

[LexxM3]

Originally Posted by X5 45e

We had a really long and interesting discussion about this last week in another thread.

If I remember well the consensus was that both brakes would stop the car within the same braking distance but the M brakes would keep braking power longer with sportive driving. But maybe I have to look into this again. It was quite an animated discussion and I may have missed the point.

I am very concerned about safety and have all the safety features. So I am glad I have the M brakes if what you say true of course.

Other tradeoffs (such as cost) might be more complicated, but this one seems easy: between running boards and M Sport brakes, it's obviously M Sport brakes all the way. At the very least, they are no worse than non-M Sport brakes, regardless whether they are materially better for emergency braking situations (which they might be, but we need to look up and reference objective test data for that rather than air arbitrary opinions).

[X5 45e]

Originally Posted by LexxM3

Other tradeoffs (such as cost) might be more complicated, but this one seems easy: between running boards and M Sport brakes, it's obviously M Sport brakes all the way. At the very least, they are no worse than non-M Sport brakes, regardless whether they are materially better for emergency braking situations (which they might be, but we need to look up and reference objective test data for that rather than air arbitrary opinions).

That is all correct. And objective test would be needed on braking distance. I would chose the M brakes too if I had to chose between those two options, but I am 1m93 so I don't really need running board to get in the car.

I prefer the look of the m pack with the painted wheel arches anyway but that is personal.

Noneya GrussGott I just found the thread and I don't believe we have reached a consensus. But maybe it was just better to let it rest for a while. 🤓

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by X5 45e

the consensus was that both brakes would stop the car within the same braking distance but the M brakes would keep braking power longer with sportive driving.

This.

Meaning either driving on a track ... but in a 45e the more likely scenario would be towing 5000 pounds driving down a 15,000 foot mountain riding the brakes all the way down. In that abuse (and foolish) scenario, the ///M brakes will last longer than the standard.

[Noneya]

Originally Posted by X5 45e

That is all correct. And objective test would be needed on braking distance. I would chose the M brakes too if I had to chose between those two options, but I am 1m93 so I don't really need running board to get in the car.

I prefer the look of the m pack with the painted wheel arches anyway but that is personal.

Noneya GrussGott I just found the thread and I don't believe we have reached a consensus. But maybe it was just better to let it rest for a while. 🤓

Consensus could not be reached because GrussGott stopped using reason and kept making the same statement over and over I guess going for an argument by repetition?

Here's an apples to apples comparison of some random set of brakes on a random car: https://www.ferodo.us/testing/compet...-distance.html that shows that brakes matter for a single stop.

[FloridaM5]

I bought them because they look nice with large wheels.

[X5 45e]

Originally Posted by Noneya

Consensus could not be reached because GrussGott stopped using reason and kept making the same statement over and over I guess going for an argument by repetition?

Here's an apples to apples comparison of some random set of brakes on a random car: https://www.ferodo.us/testing/compet...-distance.html that shows that brakes matter for a single stop.

That is a nice test, at first view. But it is a commercial for a certain brake pad.

Let's take the high speed graph because this is going to make the difference in safety.

The difference between the best and first and second runner up is only 3-4%. I think that blinking your eye will make a bigger difference in braking distance. So maybe drinking a cup of coffee before leaving adds more to safety. So we should go for the heated cup holders.

I agree that 4 meters might look like a big difference. But you have to see the whole picture. On a total of more than 120 meters it is not significant.

It doesn't mention what competitors they have chosen to compare with. That is comparing apples with pears. If you chose your own control group of course they will perform worse than the thing you are trying to sell.

It would be nice if you could prove your point with some more scientific tests. Based on you replies in the other thread I was kind of expecting that.

It would be nice to have a test comparing both brakes on the G05 to end this discussion.

[Noneya]

Originally Posted by X5 45e

That is a nice test, at first view. But it is a commercial for a certain brake pad.

Let's take the high speed graph because this is going to make the difference in safety.

The difference between the best and first and second runner up is only 3-4%. I think that blinking your eye will make a bigger difference in braking distance. So maybe drinking a cup of coffee before leaving adds more to safety. So we should go for the heated cup holders.

I agree that 4 meters might look like a big difference. But you have to see the whole picture. On a total of more than 120 meters it is not significant.

It doesn't mention what competitors they have chosen to compare with. That is comparing apples with pears. If you chose your own control group of course they will perform worse than the thing you are trying to sell.

It would be nice if you could prove your point with some more scientific tests. Based on you replies in the other thread I was kind of expecting that.

It would be nice to have a test comparing both brakes on the G05 to end this discussion.

Original argument was about there being any difference. That experiment, while certainly biased (likely in choice of "competitors"), still clearly demonstrates that there is. Whether you think that difference is large enough to warrant getting the better brakes is a personal cost/benefit analysis issue.

I've presented an argument from physics, as well as experimental results which confirm the theoretical argument. I don't know how big the difference is for G05, nor where personal thresholds are for various buyers, so don't have much more to add here.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Noneya

Consensus could not be reached because GrussGott stopped using reason

Dude, stop being such a drama queen - we reached consensus:

con·sen·sus /kənˈsensəs/
a general agreement.

You're just the outlier to the general agreement.

EDIT: and, BTW, our consensus includes BMW engineers.

[X5 45e]

Originally Posted by Noneya

Original argument was about there being any difference. That experiment, while certainly biased (likely in choice of "competitors"), still clearly demonstrates that there is. Whether you think that difference is large enough to warrant getting the better brakes is a personal cost/benefit analysis issue.

I've presented an argument from physics, as well as experimental results which confirm the theoretical argument. I don't know how big the difference is for G05, nor where personal thresholds are for various buyers, so don't have much more to add here.

Comparing to a non specified control group is like comparing acceleration of a 118i vs a 850i and saying the 850 is a faster car.

It doesn't mean anything, just that they were able to find brakes that actually performed worse than what they are trying to sell. They did a good job on that.

Because of you perfect scientific replies in the last's post. I presume you are a engineer? I wondered why you would take such a worthless test to prove your point.

[X5 45e]

In French you could call me an enfant terrible by bringing this discussion back to life !

Some animated discussion again.

[Noneya]

Originally Posted by X5 45e

Comparing to a non specified control group is like comparing acceleration of a 118i vs a 850i and saying the 850 is a faster car.

It doesn't mean anything, just that they were able to find brakes that actually performed worse than what they are trying to sell. They did a good job on that.

Because of you perfect scientific replies in the last's post. I presume you are a engineer? I wondered why you would take such a worthless test to prove your point.

I disagree that it's a worthless test - bias does not necessarily make a test worthless. Anyway - here's a very scientific experiment (scroll down to pages 59-62): https://www.michigan.gov/documents/m...n_337522_7.pdf

Can we put this to rest now?

[Noneya]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Dude, stop being such a drama queen - we reached consensus:

con·sen·sus /kənˈsensəs/
a general agreement.

You're just the outlier to the general agreement.

EDIT: and, BTW, our consensus includes BMW engineers.

Please don't be shy to point me to BMW engineers who agree with your statement that "any two brakes that can lock the rotors will have the same stopping distance".

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by Noneya

Please don't be shy to point me to BMW engineers who agree with your statement that "any two brakes that can lock the rotors will have the same stopping distance".

It's in the threads, asked of and answered by BMW engineers: m-brakes and standard have the same stopping distance.

Since you - and only you - have so many questions, give it a search or, better, why not ask them yourself given your passion about brakes and let us all know?

[Noneya]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

It's in the threads, asked of and answered by BMW engineers: m-brakes and standard have the same stopping distance.

Since you - and only you - have so many questions, give it a search or, better, why not ask them yourself given your passion about brakes and let us all know?

So you make a claim, supposedly back up that claim by saying BMW engineers agree with me, and then I'm supposed to go find proof of it. I'll pass, thanks, I'm currently on a hunt for a teapot in space. And please don't try to wiggle out of your claim by trying to specifically compare M and non-M brakes (presumably for some specific car). I'll reiterate it here for you (your words) one more time: "any two brakes that can lock the rotors will have same stopping distance".