[vr]

I ordered my g05, leasing. For the ones who don't know - like me before buying - I found the nice surprise of the power reduction from 394 to 310hp (155kw).

To switch back to the normal version they asked me an insane amount of money. I am very concerned to spend them or not. I have been told that it drives the same but it's just bullshit. with 1sec 0-100 more and max speed 200km/h ... the combustion engine lowered to 209hp, it cannot obviously be the same.

I asked around and got contrasting feedbacks! I asked to test drive it and there are no 'belgian downgraded' version in the whole BENELUX dealers network - obviously nobody wants them for test drive.

feel very unconfortable to buy blackbox.

i did some search and got some info on this form by cool people and looks like the reduction is done horribly by cutting power and torque above 3000rpm... it's really castration of a great petrol engine, just ecu software obviously.

An original splendid engine from the 40i, designed to deliver more than 380hp on his own, already limited to fit the electric boost ... how to castrate it even more to 209hp? here you know... Finally, I found this: http://www.autotuner-tool.com/fr/log...4e2aa2efa24240

BMW tells you that the car drives the same as it still has the same torque of 600nm but according to this dump, it's pure bullshit, it's a scam. here you see a max of 454nm at 3400rpm then the car dies out. I also heard that it's like pulling the handbrake after 3000.

This is not acceptable, I am ordering 98k euro car and I cannot get a sense of reality. I am not after the extreme performance but after a pleasant dynamic driving experience aligned with the level and the weight of this car.

Please if you have the 'downgraded version' can you please, please, help me: give me your opinion on how it drives, perhaps you could film the acceleration above 3000rpm and send it prv? help... there is nothing, not a press article, not a video on youtube.. it's just a stupid tax reason to allow BMW to keep selling cars for corp fleets.

I really appreciate your help... and hope to make a decision soon.
For the normal version, the leasing company asked me +6550 eur more on 4years upfront of the registration tax higher than 2.5k. It's a rip-off...

[lexieke]

Hi vr

I don’t understand where you got the limited engine from. Looking at the online confit it says 394hp

[biterror]

Originally Posted by lexieke

Hi vr
I don’t understand where you got the limited engine from. Looking at the online confit it says 394hp

It has been discussed here before that for tax reasons they are limiting the engine power in Belgium.

[Pateeke81]

Originally Posted by lexieke

Hi vr

I don’t understand where you got the limited engine from. Looking at the online confit it says 394hp

It is in the option list somewhere.

I had it on my BMW bike, while doing the 1000km check they just flashed the full power version over it, cost me 30€.
I don't know if they are willing to do the same for cars, specially lease.

[lexieke]

Is it not a difference between Flandres and the other regions? Tax is regional I thought.

[Pateeke81]

Originally Posted by lexieke

Is it not a difference between Flandres and the other regions? Tax is regional I thought.

Tax rules for lease cars are federal no matter where you live.
So it is still calculated based on horsepower (BIV registration) and engine displacement (yearly tax)

[Pateeke81]

Originally Posted by vr

I ordered my g05, leasing. For the ones who don't know - like me before buying - I found the nice surprise of the power reduction from 394 to 310hp (155kw).

To switch back to the normal version they asked me an insane amount of money. I am very concerned to spend them or not. I have been told that it drives the same but it's just bullshit. with 1sec 0-100 more and max speed 200km/h ... the combustion engine lowered to 209hp, it cannot obviously be the same.

I asked around and got contrasting feedbacks! I asked to test drive it and there are no 'belgian downgraded' version in the whole BENELUX dealers network - obviously nobody wants them for test drive.

feel very unconfortable to buy blackbox.

i did some search and got some info on this form by cool people and looks like the reduction is done horribly by cutting power and torque above 3000rpm... it's really castration of a great petrol engine, just ecu software obviously.

An original splendid engine from the 40i, designed to deliver more than 380hp on his own, already limited to fit the electric boost ... how to castrate it even more to 209hp? here you know... Finally, I found this: http://www.autotuner-tool.com/fr/log...4e2aa2efa24240

BMW tells you that the car drives the same as it still has the same torque of 600nm but according to this dump, it's pure bullshit, it's a scam. here you see a max of 454nm at 3400rpm then the car dies out. I also heard that it's like pulling the handbrake after 3000.

This is not acceptable, I am ordering 98k euro car and I cannot get a sense of reality. I am not after the extreme performance but after a pleasant dynamic driving experience aligned with the level and the weight of this car.

Please if you have the 'downgraded version' can you please, please, help me: give me your opinion on how it drives, perhaps you could film the acceleration above 3000rpm and send it prv? help... there is nothing, not a press article, not a video on youtube.. it's just a stupid tax reason to allow BMW to keep selling cars for corp fleets.

I really appreciate your help... and hope to make a decision soon.
For the normal version, the leasing company asked me +6550 eur more on 4years upfront of the registration tax higher than 2.5k. It's a rip-off...

Side note on the measurements of torque. I think they only measured the torque output of the ICE so 450nm would be the same as the non limited engine....

[vr]

Originally Posted by Pateeke81

It is in the option list somewhere.

I had it on my BMW bike, while doing the 1000km check they just flashed the full power version over it, cost me 30€.
I don't know if they are willing to do the same for cars, specially lease.

Option 843, I will never forget that code.

It's only for Wallonie and Brussels, but lease companies fall into the same registration cost. I live in Flanders, if the car would be registered to me it would be no problem.

Yes, for bikes they do it, I understand why. The reduction is impacting the image of the bike itself against the competition of the other Supersports; I was a bike driver, had a ducati 1198 few years ago and they removed the limitation with a smile basically at the delivery (no cost).

For cars, it's probably not going to happen. I know, it's very simple, i don't even know if they really made a new map or if it is just a VO coding (843) and it would suffice to re-code and pray that some cafs in some lost ecu switches to 'niet aktiv' but.. I have no clue...

I have been told to go tuning. I asked the tuning company if it is possible to bring it back to the original map of 394hp but basically they tune the ICE properly to the nice and safe native power; I don't care to get to 500hp, risk a problem of high torque when the engine is cold or worse, risk the warranty.

Looking at what's going on with 45es getting on fire around, recalls, defects, etc, risking a void warranty sounds a bad idea.. and I don't want trouble with the lease company.. cannot go there. If I take the silly downgraded version, it is going to stay unless it's just coding ( no need to to re-flash the entire ECU...) and hoping that BMW doesn't get upset the same way...

otherwise.. 6.5k more out of my pocket!!

I also heard that beside encryption, on new i-steps and the new diags software, not like before, they register warnings if the torque delivery ever passed the VO limits (in this case 600nm). Basically new ways to detect tuning even if you flash back to stock firmware. Imagine a car on fire for the battery with bmw stating that it was due to the tuning and leaving you with 80k tiers to cry...

[Pateeke81]

Originally Posted by vr

Option 843, I will never forget that code.

It's only for Wallonie and Brussels, but lease companies fall into the same registration cost. I live in Flanders, if the car would be registered to me it would be no problem.

Yes, for bikes they do it, I understand why. The reduction is impacting the image of the bike itself against the competition of the other Supersports; I was a bike driver, had a ducati 1198 few years ago and they removed the limitation with a smile basically at the delivery (no cost).

For cars, it's probably not going to happen. I know, it's very simple, i don't even know if they really made a new map or if it is just a VO coding (843) and it would suffice to re-code and pray that some cafs in some lost ecu switches to 'niet aktiv' but.. I have no clue...

I have been told to go tuning. I asked the tuning company if it is possible to bring it back to the original map of 394hp but basically they tune the ICE properly to the nice and safe native power; I don't care to get to 500hp, risk a problem of high torque when the engine is cold or worse, risk the warranty.

Looking at what's going on with 45es getting on fire around, recalls, defects, etc, risking a void warranty sounds a bad idea.. and I don't want trouble with the lease company.. cannot go there. If I take the silly downgraded version, it is going to stay unless it's just coding ( no need to to re-flash the entire ECU...) and hoping that BMW doesn't get upset the same way...

otherwise.. 6.5k more out of my pocket!!

I also heard that beside encryption, on new i-steps and the new diags software, not like before, they register warnings if the torque delivery ever passed the VO limits (in this case 600nm). Basically new ways to detect tuning even if you flash back to stock firmware. Imagine a car on fire for the battery with bmw stating that it was due to the tuning and leaving you with 80k tiers to cry...

It is a new engine map.
What did the dealer ask to flash the non-limited map?

[vr]

Originally Posted by Pateeke81

Side note on the measurements of torque. I think they only measured the torque output of the ICE so 450nm would be the same as the non limited engine....

I am not sure, I would be even surprised of the 450nm with 209hp reduced and low rpm.

looking at the map of the good version (the black of course), the original not downgraded, I see that the 518nm are reached at 4550rpm, and yes might be the ice only but also the non depowered version around 3000 rpm delivers 450nm, IT S EVEN MORE HORRIBLE... looks even the same map/software with just a choked and cut out over the 3000rpm... even worse and ... why not, it could be the same map with a cafd setting something like LIMITFORBELGHISH_POORDRV = aktiv



I only would like to know how the depowered version drives in real life... perhaps it's not that horrible as it looks on paper...

[vr]

Originally Posted by Pateeke81

It is a new engine map.
What did the dealer ask to flash the non-limited map?

they didn't propose, and i don't think they will do it ... discussion is via my fleet management, I can always pick the phone and call - no shame

[Pateeke81]

Originally Posted by vr

they didn't propose, and i don't think they will do it ... discussion is via my fleet management, I can always pick the phone and call - no shame

Just call the dealer, maybe not the one that will deliver your vehicle.
Or Germany is not that far, dealers there tend to be more compliant.

[vr]

Originally Posted by lexieke

Hi vr

I don’t understand where you got the limited engine from. Looking at the online confit it says 394hp

it's not in the configurator on line, they don't even tell you at the dealer if you don't investigate what the fxxxck is code 843



GUYS BE CAREFULLL when ordering in belgium!!!!!!
I have colleagues who are convinced to drive 394hp and had to give them the bad news. So upset that they didn't offer me to test the car and understand why... other lucky ones who without knowing about the two versions got the good one..



[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/37wmRYQ/unnamed.png[IMG]

[vr]

nobody with the depowered version on that forum full of belgians?? :O

[Pateeke81]

Originally Posted by vr

nobody with the depowered version on that forum full of belgians?? :O

Most of us are business owners so we mostly don't do lease but go for renting instead (renting means it is registered to our name instead of the leasefirm) or buying.
I'm from Brussels so even by renting my car i'm paying to full amount of 5k registration as I didn't want the power reduction.

Maybe more luck with finding people on a french speaking forum from the south of the country?

[Heavyd]

The problem exists only in Brussels and Wallonia. Because they calculate their tax differently than Flanders. It goes over several thousands euro. In Flanders I paid zero euro tax. In Flanders the tax is CO2 based. In Brussels and Wallonia the tax is performance based.

On my order and invoice I see an option 0ZOR not reduced power.

But if you lease a car and your leasing company is in Brussels and the car is registered in Brussels you are screwed.
With a renting you can register your car yourself. But still if you live in Brussels or Wallonia you're screwed

[Heavyd]

Originally Posted by Pateeke81

Most of us are business owners so we mostly don't do lease but go for renting instead (renting means it is registered to our name instead of the leasefirm) or buying.
I'm from Brussels so even by renting my car i'm paying to full amount of 5k registration as I didn't want the power reduction.

Maybe more luck with finding people on a french speaking forum from the south of the country?

5K?
I paid zero euro.

Belgium what a great place to live

[Pateeke81]

Originally Posted by Heavyd

5K?
I paid zero euro.

Belgium what a great place to live

5833€ to be exact, that includes the first half year of yearly tax too.

Living in Brussels has other tax advantages, luckily.

[Pateeke81]

Originally Posted by Heavyd

The problem exists only in Brussels and Wallonia. Because they calculate their tax differently than Flanders. It goes over several thousands euro. In Flanders I paid zero euro tax. In Flanders the tax is CO2 based. In Brussels and Wallonia the tax is performance based.

On my order and invoice I see an option 0ZOR not reduced power.

But if you lease a car and your leasing company is in Brussels and the car is registered in Brussels you are screwed.
With a renting you can register your car yourself. But still if you live in Brussels or Wallonia you're screwed

The leasing company can be based wherever in the country, they will always pay the Federal registration tax that equals the Brussels one.

[Heavyd]

Originally Posted by Pateeke81

5833€ to be exact, that includes the first half year of yearly tax too.

Living in Brussels has other tax advantages, luckily.

I paid no registration tax and no yearly traffic tax.

[Heavyd]

Originally Posted by Pateeke81

The leasing company can be based wherever in the country, they will always pay the Federal registration tax that equals the Brussels one.

So you're always screwed when leasing?

I also read that from 2021 Flanders will tax new cars. But existing cars will keep their current tax benefits. So I think I don't have to pay traffic tax the following years.

[Pateeke81]

Originally Posted by Heavyd

So you're always screwed when leasing?

I also read that from 2021 Flanders will tax new cars. But existing cars will keep their current tax benefits. So I think I don't have to pay traffic tax the following years.

Lease is always f*cked yes.