[E92TiAg335i]

Hey guys.

I just sold my FBO/suspension e46 m3 6mt for an m sport 335i 6mt n55. I'm still on stock 19 inch m sport wheels with POS run flats. This is my daily driver, so whatever suspension i choose to do must be comfortable.

Has anybody tracked any of these e92 6mt n55 cars? I do not want the car to be much worse than stock comfort.


if so,
What set-up did you use?
Did you try it stock?
How did you like it stock?
What did you improve?

Suggestions? (other than telling me to buy a second car to track)

[Cloud9blue]

Ohlins R&T might be a good choice for you, but it will be a compromise just FYI since they are undersprung for street comfort.

Stock suspension on non-M e90 is pretty awful, but good thing that most M3 parts are simple PnP replacements for our cars which would drastically change the chassis dynamic of the car. If you are serious about tracking this car, extensive chassis mods is a must.

You can click on the picture of my sig to see what I have done, which I sorted out pretty well over the last two season. For engine stuff, I can't help since I have a N54. But most cooling mod, like FMIC, oil cooler and radiator, are interchangeable between the two cars.

paradoxical3 has a N55 E92 that is pretty well sorted out for track use as well.

Don't let people tell you otherwise, you can definitely track this car and with the right approach, and it would be nearly as fast a stock F8x and definitely faster than a stockish E9x M3. But it would require some work to get there.

[E92TiAg335i]

Originally Posted by Cloud9blue

Ohlins R&T might be a good choice for you, but it will be a compromise just FYI since they are undersprung for street comfort.

Stock suspension on non-M e90 is pretty awful, but good thing that most M3 parts are simple PnP replacements for our cars which would drastically change the chassis dynamic of the car. If you are serious about tracking this car, extensive chassis mods is a must.

You can click on the picture of my sig to see what I have done, which I sorted out pretty well over the last two season. For engine stuff, I can't help since I have a N54. But most cooling mod, like FMIC, oil cooler and radiator, are interchangeable between the two cars.

paradoxical3 has a N55 E92 that is pretty well sorted out for track use as well.

Don't let people tell you otherwise, you can definitely track this car and with the right approach, and it would be nearly as fast a stock F8x and definitely faster than a stockish E9x M3. But it would require some work to get there.

thank you for the insight!

[The HACK]

This isn't going to be a very popular opinion...

If you look at your suspension as purely a function of keeping your tire's contact patch maximized, it really matters little per corner how much "stiffer" your suspension is. I've driven cars in a variety of state of modification, and to be honest, your suspension's impact on your true lap time is smaller than say, a better set of tires and brakes will do for you. Especially on a BMW.

So while you're asking about suspension, but still rocking the (your words) POS run-flats? IF I have my choice, I'd use that $$$ on tires rather than suspension upgrade. Because no matter how much you spend on the suspension, you won't make up 1/2 the difference you can with a decent set of extreme summer tires (or for that matter, R-Comps).

Especially for a daily. If you've got the $$$ to think about overhauling the suspension, you still won't get the bang for the bucks that you will with a separate set of tires and wheels strictly for track use. Keep the OE set-up, upgrade the wheels and tires, this way you can still keep a very civil ride for the street while churning pretty damn fast laps on track.

I suspect though, my "advice" is going to fall on def ears. So whatever coil-overs you wish to buy, just make sure that the dampers are of a very reputable brand...Öhlins, JRZ, Moton, Motion Control...etc are the higher end stuff that will ensure a wide range of damper control that keeps even the highest rated springs in check. Or a step down to the likes of AST for a more budget conscious build.

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by The HACK

This isn't going to be a very popular opinion...

If you look at your suspension as purely a function of keeping your tire's contact patch maximized, it really matters little per corner how much "stiffer" your suspension is. I've driven cars in a variety of state of modification, and to be honest, your suspension's impact on your true lap time is smaller than say, a better set of tires and brakes will do for you. Especially on a BMW.

So while you're asking about suspension, but still rocking the (your words) POS run-flats? IF I have my choice, I'd use that $$$ on tires rather than suspension upgrade. Because no matter how much you spend on the suspension, you won't make up 1/2 the difference you can with a decent set of extreme summer tires (or for that matter, R-Comps).

Especially for a daily. If you've got the $$$ to think about overhauling the suspension, you still won't get the bang for the bucks that you will with a separate set of tires and wheels strictly for track use. Keep the OE set-up, upgrade the wheels and tires, this way you can still keep a very civil ride for the street while churning pretty damn fast laps on track.

I suspect though, my "advice" is going to fall on def ears. So whatever coil-overs you wish to buy, just make sure that the dampers are of a very reputable brand...Öhlins, JRZ, Moton, Motion Control...etc are the higher end stuff that will ensure a wide range of damper control that keeps even the highest rated springs in check. Or a step down to the likes of AST for a more budget conscious build.

I am sure OP knows this already if he is experienced with chassis mods with E46. Again, don't assume every poster know nothing. He is simply asking whether it is possible to mod this car to get decent handling out of it.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by Cloud9blue

I am sure OP knows this already if he is experienced with chassis mods with E46. Again, don't assume every poster know nothing. He is simply asking whether it is possible to mod this car to get decent handling out of it.

Unfortunately from what I've seen, you HAVE to always assume the lowest common denominator when it comes to the intarweb.

And if the OP is truly familiar with the E46 chassis...He should know BMW has not had significant changes in their suspension design in almost 20 years. The fronts are still MacStrut and the rears are still multi-link, the only major change being the addition of another link on the back end of the E9X as far as suspension geometry is concerned.

But...I get it. You guys all know way more than you let on. I'll keep quiet and crawl back to my E85/E86 safe haven now.

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by The HACK

Unfortunately from what I've seen, you HAVE to always assume the lowest common denominator when it comes to the intarweb.

And if the OP is truly familiar with the E46 chassis...He should know BMW has not had significant changes in their suspension design in almost 20 years. The fronts are still MacStrut and the rears are still multi-link, the only major change being the addition of another link on the back end of the E9X as far as suspension geometry is concerned.

But...I get it. You guys all know way more than you let on. I'll keep quiet and crawl back to my E85/E86 safe haven now.

Well, e46 suspension is drastically different from e9x given the old school semi trailing arm rear suspension. Your Z4 or even the current gen Z4 didn't have multi link at the rear either. So it is entirely different platform really.

Anyway, I feel like the track section is usually the most educated part of any form, free from most of the BS you see elsewhere. There is always a few bad apples, but it is good to give your fellow racers the benefit of doubts and not treat each other like idiots

[E92TiAg335i]

Originally Posted by Cloud9blue

I am sure OP knows this already if he is experienced with chassis mods with E46. Again, don't assume every poster know nothing. He is simply asking whether it is possible to mod this car to get decent handling out of it.

LOL thank you.

I don't include tires or brakes for a reason. Those are a given...


I used to be a service advisor for a reputable BMW shop... I just don't have any experience with the e9x chassis OF MY OWN.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by Cloud9blue

Well, e46 suspension is drastically different from e9x given the old school semi trailing arm rear suspension. Your Z4 or even the current gen Z4 didn't have multi link at the rear either. So it is entirely different platform really.

Anyway, I feel like the track section is usually the most educated part of any form, free from most of the BS you see elsewhere. There is always a few bad apples, but it is good to give your fellow racers the benefit of doubts and not treat each other like idiots

Ehhhh.

The HACK knows his stuff, so I wouldn't really question his knowledge.

Any coilover with a higher spring rate will bring on NVH. Nature of the beast. I can tell you on OE suspension my car didn't have rattles left and right. Now on #400/#700 rears the interior is showing what has happened. I knew it would, and don't really care...but others might not realize it.

RE-71Rs and wheels the the track and focus on your driving. Throwing money at coilovers on a chassis you're not familiar with (especially ones that offer rebound/compression adjustments) is asking for trouble.

Anyways, if you want coilovers be ready to run a ton of camber up front or you essentially defeat the purpose of doing it in the first place since you won't actually optimize the setup you just shelled out a ton of money for.

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

Ehhhh.

The HACK knows his stuff, so I wouldn't really question his knowledge.

Any coilover with a higher spring rate will bring on NVH. Nature of the beast. I can tell you on OE suspension my car didn't have rattles left and right. Now on #400/#700 rears the interior is showing what has happened. I knew it would, and don't really care...but others might not realize it.

RE-71Rs and wheels the the track and focus on your driving. Throwing money at coilovers on a chassis you're not familiar with (especially ones that offer rebound/compression adjustments) is asking for trouble.

Anyways, if you want coilovers be ready to run a ton of camber up front or you essentially defeat the purpose of doing it in the first place since you won't actually optimize the setup you just shelled out a ton of money for.

That's what this subforum is for... Dunno why you guys are so negative toward the newcomers...

RE-71R will probably be the fastest street tires you can buy. But they wear as quick as R compounds on our heavy cars. So you can weight your priority.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by Cloud9blue

That's what this subforum is for... Dunno why you guys are so negative toward the newcomers...

RE-71R will probably be the fastest street tires you can buy. But they wear as quick as R compounds on our heavy cars. So you can weight your priority.

No they don't...

RE-71Rs will last a lot longer than R-Comps, they won't heat cycle out, and the stiff shoulder will help with wear over a full R-Comp.

You'll cord a R-Comp alot quicker than a RE-71R.

I've been getting around 150+ Runs on RE-71Rs for autocross. You may think this is minimal, however on the old Hankook RS3 V2s I got around 100 autocross runs on the same setup car before they heat cycled out and became useless tires. RE-71Rs are good to no tread.

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

No they don't...

RE-71Rs will last a lot longer than R-Comps, they won't heat cycle out, and the stiff shoulder will help with wear over a full R-Comp.

You'll cord a R-Comp alot quicker than a RE-71R.

I've been getting around 150+ Runs on RE-71Rs for autocross. You may think this is minimal, however on the old Hankook RS3 V2s I got around 100 autocross runs on the same setup car before they heat cycled out and became useless tires. RE-71Rs are good to no tread.

[IMG]https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...be&oe=5694AAE2[/IMG]

Dude... Arguing with you is getting a little annoying to be honest.

How many times we need to remind you on the facts that autocross =/= road course. And your car is a lot lighter and less powerful than a 335i as well. On our cars, these street tires will wear out a lot earlier than you are able to heat cycle them out.

I am pretty sure when OP say "track", he means road course rather than his local autocross events.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by Cloud9blue

Dude... Arguing with you is getting a little annoying to be honest.

How many times we need to remind you on the facts that autocross =/= road course. And your car is a lot lighter and less powerful than a 335i as well. On our cars, these street tires will wear out a lot earlier than you are able to heat cycle them out.

I am pretty sure when OP say "track", he means road course rather than his local autocross events.

It's very relative, a true R Comp you'll get 2 good heat cycles out of it on a road course.

A street tire can tolerate multiple heat cycles, and yet again is good til it's bare. You will cord a R-Comp on a no camber front pig in no time.

As well, autocross is much more punish on tires, as it's not loaded up in a linear fashion throughout the turn, it experiences a ton more slip angle, which thus equates to wear.

I run on concrete for National Events, which is much more abrasive than most road courses (than lets say NCM which is a cheese grater). Mid-Ohio, which has sealed turns will offer much less wear.

I have plenty of pictures of my RE-71Rs graining, which I can show. But since there's no experience of you ever running them on running on old RS3v2s, there will be no message recieved.


I find it funny how you like to put down others like The HACK and myself, while you act all high and mighty with your "42 mods"....yet I've never seen any videos or anything on your end.


PS - I'm not arguing, just showing the OP actual evidence

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

It's very relative, a true R Comp you'll get 2 good heat cycles out of it on a road course.

A street tire can tolerate multiple heat cycles, and yet again is good til it's bare. You will cord a R-Comp on a no camber front pig in no time.

As well, autocross is much more punish on tires, as it's not loaded up in a linear fashion throughout the turn, it experiences a ton more slip angle, which thus equates to wear.

I run on concrete for National Events, which is much more abrasive than most road courses (than lets say NCM which is a cheese grater). Mid-Ohio, which has sealed turns will offer much less wear.

I have plenty of pictures of my RE-71Rs graining, which I can show. But since there's no experience of you ever running them on running on old RS3v2s, there will be no message recieved.


I find it funny how you like to put down others like The HACK and myself, while you act all high and mighty with your "42 mods"....yet I've never seen any videos or anything on your end.


PS - I'm not arguing, just showing the OP actual evidence

Because I post all my videos on m3post where the guys there have a nicely consolidated thread of everyone lap times. Something that we just don't have in e90post. Feel free to join the discussion over there if you have any road course experience to contribute.

I get it. You are awesome at autocross and very knowledgeable on that subject. But that's not the OP question here is it?

Why can't we all just treat each other with a token of respect and just offer constructive and to point suggestions on these forums? We really don't need this kind of attitude here, especially to the newcomers.... No need to prove anything here on the Internet with some long and off topic rant here.

At the end, we all do this as a hobby and the purpose is to have fun, and maybe a learn a thing or two along the way. Am I right?

[Tom Droze]

Originally Posted by E92TiAg335i

Hey guys.

I just sold my FBO/suspension e46 m3 6mt for an m sport 335i 6mt n55. I'm still on stock 19 inch m sport wheels with POS run flats. This is my daily driver, so whatever suspension i choose to do must be comfortable.

Has anybody tracked any of these e92 6mt n55 cars? I do not want the car to be much worse than stock comfort.


if so,
What set-up did you use?
Did you try it stock?
How did you like it stock?
What did you improve?

Suggestions? (other than telling me to buy a second car to track)

I have an e92 328i (automatic) that I taken to the track. My suspension mods include the Eibach pro kit series springs with Koni FSD shocks. This set up rides very close to the stock suspension on the street. I also have a MFactory LSD and MFactory rear differential bushings, subframe bushing inserts, M3 front control arms with the M3 e93 front sway bar, I am also running on Michelin PSS tires. My car feels very neutral on the track, which helps me with higher horsepower cars. Here is a video from last week.

[feuer]

Originally Posted by Kgolf31

I find it funny how you like to put down others like The HACK and myself, while you act all high and mighty with your "42 mods"....yet I've never seen any videos or anything on your end.

Respectfully, neither of you is correct all the time. So let stay on topic which is tracking n55 335i 6mt, something neither of you have nor tracking for that mater.

[feuer]

Originally Posted by E92TiAg335i

Suggestions? (other than telling me to buy a second car to track)

I drive n54 335i 6mt. I track, since 2010, probably on average I would say 12 events per year. If you want to keep the comfort:
-ditch the 19" for 18" with good tires
-install camber plates (at least dinan fix plates)
-m3 front control arms
-m3 sway bar
-keep the stock springs
-koni yellows
-track oriented alignment
-good brake pads and brake fluid

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by feuer

Respectfully, neither of you is correct all the time. So let stay on topic which is tracking n55 335i 6mt, something neither of you have nor tracking for that mater.

Exactly, dunno why is it so hard for someone to stay on topic, or simply stay off the discussion that he/she neither has experience with nor have the understanding of.

Granted, I was a track newbie not long ago and learned a lot by reading the forums when I first started out. But I swear I would have saved a lot of time and money back in the days if I don't have to filter through some of "information" on the forums.

[E92TiAg335i]

Originally Posted by feuer

I drive n54 335i 6mt. I track, since 2010, probably on average I would say 12 events per year. If you want to keep the comfort:
-ditch the 19" for 18" with good tires
-install camber plates (at least dinan fix plates)
-m3 front control arms
-m3 sway bar
-keep the stock springs
-koni yellows
-track oriented alignment
-good brake pads and brake fluid

MOST USEFUL RESPONSE THUS FAR!

Yes, i'm actually picking up a pair of Apex Arc-8's with good bf goodrich comp 2's (decent summer tires).

I'm actually planning on doing pretty much those EXACT same mods.

[feuer]

Originally Posted by E92TiAg335i

MOST USEFUL RESPONSE THUS FAR!

Yes, i'm actually picking up a pair of Apex Arc-8's with good bf goodrich comp 2's (decent summer tires).

I'm actually planning on doing pretty much those EXACT same mods.

Thank you!
I have a set of Apex 18" as well.
They are light and strong and if you damage one God forbid you can ship it back and Apex will give you 50% off toward buying a new wheel.
The BF G-force Comp-2 are very good.
I recently drove Audi S4 B8 3.Osc and I'm surprise to how well they held.
Compatible with Michelin PSS I think.
Good choices, enjoy!

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by feuer

I drive n54 335i 6mt. I track, since 2010, probably on average I would say 12 events per year. If you want to keep the comfort:
-ditch the 19" for 18" with good tires
-install camber plates (at least dinan fix plates)
-m3 front control arms
-m3 sway bar
-keep the stock springs
-koni yellows
-track oriented alignment
-good brake pads and brake fluid

Gonna offer a slightly different opinion here, but I am sure feuer would agree to certain degree as well since we track together all the time.

Get BMW Performance Yellow spring at the very least, stock one is way too soft for this heavy car. Swift Spec-R springs are a good alternative as well (http://www.hpashop.com/Swift-Spec-R-...pec-R-335i.htm) Don't do the M3 rear sway bar unless you have LSD, and even then, its benefits is questionable for road course use. Front sway is highly recommended though.

The biggest NVH contributor will be your shock mounts/camber plates on this car, as I have found out by upgrading the car over the years. As long as you stay with stock rear shock mounts and stock front strut mounts, you will be ok assuming you are not running some overdamped shocks.

Get the Dinan front camber plates though, which reuses the stock strut mount, and the M3 front control arms. They will save you money on tires in the long run.

[Kgolf31]

Originally Posted by E92TiAg335i

MOST USEFUL RESPONSE THUS FAR!

Yes, i'm actually picking up a pair of Apex Arc-8's with good bf goodrich comp 2's (decent summer tires).

I'm actually planning on doing pretty much those EXACT same mods.

Ever consider a Hankook RS3 or similar?

The step from summer tires to high performance summer tires is quite staggering in terms of performance.