EDC16cp35 Vs EDC17cp09

Bob@BPC · 03-15-2016, 09:07 PM

Well, during my R&D I thought to myself "how much better is the euro 335D tune over the US spec". So, I decided for 335D community to find out. For the past month I have decoded all the maps needed to convert the euro 335D edc16 stock tune over to the US spec edc17 and see if it really makes 21hp more on the dyno.

Here's some side by side maps to take a look at.

Boost Maps

Driver's Wish

Rail Pressure

It seems boost is a mix bag, since the edc16 only has 10 or so maps vs the edc17 that as 28. At the top end of the boost maps, they seem to match up for the most part. The euro Driver wish maps are more aggressive over the US counterpart. As for the fueling, the maps are identical for rail pressure. I will update with more side by sides soon(SOI, N75 and smoke)

335dsleeper · 03-15-2016, 10:51 PM

Interesting. Thanks, Bob.

Mik325tds · 03-16-2016, 06:01 AM

Now that's some insight we have not seen from any other tuner yet. Thanks for sharing, Bob!

glitdi · 03-16-2016, 09:06 AM

how do the egr maps compare? I always wondered if it was the chicken or the egg debate with the euro cars and the less likeliness to cbu.
Is it the fuel? (most likely considering you said they are similar) Is it the egr map? or is it the boost with the egr that makes the difference?
Also how does the us drivers wish in sport mode compare to the euro regular drivers wish?

Nadir Point · 03-16-2016, 10:46 AM

What they've done with boost management seems a bit odd to me, based on what I see. My car has a cold running issue, where boost jumps around erratically on throttle application at low-to-moderate load for the 1st 5-10 minutes before it warms up. You can't feel it, appears to run normally, just see it on the mechanical boost gauge. I want to believe it's a hardware problem with the wastegate(s) waiting to actually break, but something makes the phenomenon disappears after warmup.

Then there's an arbitrarily stupid (to me, at least) boost limit the DDE appears to transmit to the wastegates somehow. Pull out moderately hard from a stoplight, it jumps to 20psi and settles. Do this at 30%, 40%, 50% 60-70-80% throttle, doesn't make any difference - same real life boost application pattern - jumps to 20 then settles wherever it needs to be. The only way it gives more than 20psi is at max load, full throttle, or nearabouts in that range.

How do you translate that from digital to analog? Dunno...

QUIKDZL · 03-16-2016, 11:27 AM

Bob, can you draw any conclusions?

Bob@BPC · 03-16-2016, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QUIKDZL

Bob, can you draw any conclusions?

it seems that the euro version might make more power down low and have a more aggressive throttle response, however, it dont think it will make more than 5 - 10hp peak over the US version.

shnaggs · 03-16-2016, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob@BPC

it seems that the euro version might make more power down low and have a more aggressive throttle response, however, it dont think it will make more than 5 - 10hp peak over the US version.

I could get on board with that, I like low down grunt

Bob@BPC · 03-16-2016, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glitdi

how do the egr maps compare? I always wondered if it was the chicken or the egg debate with the euro cars and the less likeliness to cbu.
Is it the fuel? (most likely considering you said they are similar) Is it the egr map? or is it the boost with the egr that makes the difference?
Also how does the us drivers wish in sport mode compare to the euro regular drivers wish?

The EGR maps are different between the EDC16 & EDC17, the EDC17 has additional maps called AGR. In short, the EGR maps are not the same and hard to compare.

As for the drivers wish boost maps "sport mode", the euro version is a little more aggressive vs the US spec.

next dyno tune I do, (with the owners permission) I want to load the euro tune and see how much more it makes over ours.

tuikku · 03-17-2016, 04:22 PM

.
Important is the components of which the motor is built.
Not the software version, that is used.
Important is to know and understand, how the engine actually works.
Not the software version, that is used.
The software is only a tool to control the engine.

In both softwares have the same thing told in a slightly different ways.
Only real difference is that your cars urea additive.

Who understand, how the lambda-controlled edc-16 program works, have no real difficulties to do decent edc-17 program, they are so similar.
Same things in both ecus, different order.

335dsleeper · 03-17-2016, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuikku

.
Important is the components of which the motor is built.
Not the software version, that is used.
Important is to know and understand, how the engine actually works.
Not the software version, that is used.
The software is only a tool to control the engine.

In both softwares have the same thing told in a slightly different ways.
Only real difference is that your cars urea additive.

Who understand, how the lambda-controlled edc-16 program works, have no real difficulties to do decent edc-17 program, they are so similar.
Same things in both ecus, different order.

I love when you post

glitdi · 03-17-2016, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob@BPC

The EGR maps are different between the EDC16 & EDC17, the EDC17 has additional maps called AGR. In short, the EGR maps are not the same and hard to compare.

As for the drivers wish boost maps "sport mode", the euro version is a little more aggressive vs the US spec.

next dyno tune I do, (with the owners permission) I want to load the euro tune and see how much more it makes over ours.

I know thats been a classic for a lot of engine tuners, take the stock tune from a higher hp model and overlap them with the pre exsisting one and voila!!
Interested in the results...

335dsleeper · 03-17-2016, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glitdi

I know thats been a classic for a lot of engine tuners, take the stock tune from a higher hp model and overlap them with the pre exsisting one and voila!!
Interested in the results...

What?

tuikku · 03-18-2016, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glitdi

I know thats been a classic for a lot of engine tuners, take the stock tune from a higher hp model and overlap them with the pre exsisting one and voila!!
Interested in the results...

That is a good way to learn to do something right.
Helps also a lot if you can compare two almoust similar softwares with and without additives, dpf, intake flaps ...

Bob@BPC · 04-06-2016, 09:42 AM

The Results are in and I hate to be right

The US 335D makes the same power as the Euro 335D

I converted all the EDC16 maps over, its 1:1 to the EDC17 and made the SAME peak HP & TQ. So, what does this tell us? It says BMW underrated the US Spec, meaning the US version of the D makes 286 Crank HP, not 265.

If you take a look at the graph, you can see the euro tune makes more power in the middle of the band.

If you think the exhaust is why the euro version makes more power, I will have the SCR filter off the car later this week.( I can tell you from the hundreds of pulls I have done on these cars, its not going to make 20rwhp more with it removed)

Green: Euro Spec tune
Red: US spec

335ddd · 04-06-2016, 12:58 PM

so does it mean when tuners advertise 50HP increases with JBD lets say its really more like 20HP from 286 - 30x

mefferso · 04-06-2016, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 335ddd

so does it mean when tuners advertise 50HP increases with JBD lets say its really more like 20HP from 286 - 30x

I made 237 stock and 283 with jbd@100% on the dyno.

Dr.Wotk · 12-08-2017, 02:29 PM

I have a question. Can USA 335D e90 EDC17 replace with EU 335D EDC16 if change all wiring ?

Bob@BPC · 12-08-2017, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Wotk

I have a question. Can USA 335D e90 EDC17 replace with EU 335D EDC16 if change all wiring ?

Yes, if you knew how to write your cars ISN number and vin to the DDE or you are able to disable EWS(IMMO).

Dr.Wotk · 12-08-2017, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob@BPC

Yes, if you knew how to write your cars ISN number and vin to the DDE or you are able to disable EWS(IMMO).

But if i find CAS and DDE from one car, is it make things easier for me ?

p.s. i want to go EDC16 because of the future tuning for hybrid turbo, EDC17 cant read/write trough OBD

Bob@BPC · 12-08-2017, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Wotk

But if i find CAS and DDE from one car, is it make things easier for me ?

p.s. i want to go EDC16 because of the future tuning for hybrid turbo, EDC17 cant read/write trough OBD

Guess you missed this: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1447052

Dr.Wotk · 12-09-2017, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob@BPC

Guess you missed this: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1447052

Can Flash with Phone-OTG-USB-OBD (like MHD flash N54)? or Windows - OBD ?

How Much does it cost to ECU tune with Hybrid turbo ?

Can you get me your contacts ? email or FB ?

03-15-2016, 09:07 PM	#1
Bob@BPC 865 Rep 642 Posts Drives: F30 328i Sport Line Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Raleigh iTrader: (0)	EDC16cp35 Vs EDC17cp09 Well, during my R&D I thought to myself "how much better is the euro 335D tune over the US spec". So, I decided for 335D community to find out. For the past month I have decoded all the maps needed to convert the euro 335D edc16 stock tune over to the US spec edc17 and see if it really makes 21hp more on the dyno. Here's some side by side maps to take a look at. Boost Maps Driver's Wish Rail Pressure It seems boost is a mix bag, since the edc16 only has 10 or so maps vs the edc17 that as 28. At the top end of the boost maps, they seem to match up for the most part. The euro Driver wish maps are more aggressive over the US counterpart. As for the fueling, the maps are identical for rail pressure. I will update with more side by sides soon(SOI, N75 and smoke)
	Appreciate 13 Tweet Quote

03-15-2016, 10:51 PM	#2
335dsleeper Banned 389 Rep 1,623 Posts Drives: 09' 335d 10'35D Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Suffolk, va iTrader: (0)	Interesting. Thanks, Bob.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-16-2016, 06:01 AM	#3
Mik325tds Major 806 Rep 1,191 Posts Drives: 335d M-Sport Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Greater Detroit iTrader: (0)	Now that's some insight we have not seen from any other tuner yet. Thanks for sharing, Bob!
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-16-2016, 09:06 AM	#4
glitdi Rudolf/German/Compression Ignition Specialist. 53 Rep 168 Posts Drives: 2009 335d Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: West Coast Canada iTrader: (0)	how do the egr maps compare? I always wondered if it was the chicken or the egg debate with the euro cars and the less likeliness to cbu. Is it the fuel? (most likely considering you said they are similar) Is it the egr map? or is it the boost with the egr that makes the difference? Also how does the us drivers wish in sport mode compare to the euro regular drivers wish? __________________ I fix other people's stupid German problems so I can afford to fix my stupid German problems....
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-16-2016, 10:46 AM	#5
Nadir Point Lieutenant 103 Rep 579 Posts Drives: Diesel Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: CO iTrader: (0)	What they've done with boost management seems a bit odd to me, based on what I see. My car has a cold running issue, where boost jumps around erratically on throttle application at low-to-moderate load for the 1st 5-10 minutes before it warms up. You can't feel it, appears to run normally, just see it on the mechanical boost gauge. I want to believe it's a hardware problem with the wastegate(s) waiting to actually break, but something makes the phenomenon disappears after warmup. Then there's an arbitrarily stupid (to me, at least) boost limit the DDE appears to transmit to the wastegates somehow. Pull out moderately hard from a stoplight, it jumps to 20psi and settles. Do this at 30%, 40%, 50% 60-70-80% throttle, doesn't make any difference - same real life boost application pattern - jumps to 20 then settles wherever it needs to be. The only way it gives more than 20psi is at max load, full throttle, or nearabouts in that range. How do you translate that from digital to analog? Dunno...
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-16-2016, 11:27 AM	#6
QUIKDZL First Lieutenant 102 Rep 320 Posts Drives: 2010 335d Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Irmo, SC iTrader: (0)	Bob, can you draw any conclusions? __________________
	Appreciate 0 Quote

03-17-2016, 04:22 PM	#10
tuikku Private First Class 55 Rep 157 Posts Drives: BMW E92 335d Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Finland iTrader: (0)	. Important is the components of which the motor is built. Not the software version, that is used. Important is to know and understand, how the engine actually works. Not the software version, that is used. The software is only a tool to control the engine. In both softwares have the same thing told in a slightly different ways. Only real difference is that your cars urea additive. Who understand, how the lambda-controlled edc-16 program works, have no real difficulties to do decent edc-17 program, they are so similar. Same things in both ecus, different order.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

04-06-2016, 09:42 AM	#15
Bob@BPC 865 Rep 642 Posts Drives: F30 328i Sport Line Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Raleigh iTrader: (0)	The Results are in and I hate to be right The US 335D makes the same power as the Euro 335D I converted all the EDC16 maps over, its 1:1 to the EDC17 and made the SAME peak HP & TQ. So, what does this tell us? It says BMW underrated the US Spec, meaning the US version of the D makes 286 Crank HP, not 265. If you take a look at the graph, you can see the euro tune makes more power in the middle of the band. If you think the exhaust is why the euro version makes more power, I will have the SCR filter off the car later this week.( I can tell you from the hundreds of pulls I have done on these cars, its not going to make 20rwhp more with it removed) Green: Euro Spec tune Red: US spec Attached Images
	Appreciate 1 Quote

04-06-2016, 12:58 PM	#16
335ddd Private First Class 8 Rep 180 Posts Drives: 2011 335D SE Join Date: May 2014 Location: NYC iTrader: (0)	so does it mean when tuners advertise 50HP increases with JBD lets say its really more like 20HP from 286 - 30x
	Appreciate 0 Quote

12-08-2017, 02:29 PM	#18
Dr.Wotk Registered 0 Rep 4 Posts Drives: BMW 340i F30 Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Azerbaijan, Baku iTrader: (0)	I have a question. Can USA 335D e90 EDC17 replace with EU 335D EDC16 if change all wiring ?
	Appreciate 0 Quote