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      03-31-2016, 05:24 AM   #1
RollingCoal
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My 335D tuning/mod plan

Hey all, I'm looking for input on my tuning plan to keep the 335D running strong for several years. My normal commute is 35 miles each direction with 25 of this being 75 mpg interstate drive. I'm not necessarily looking for power...reliability improvement is my primary goal. Here is my plan:

1) DP install with stage 2 or 2+tune. Already have DP in hand (thanks Bob @ BPC). My tune focus would be towards efficiency as much as possible. Would switch to oil with better base #s since soot levels would no longer matter

2) Gut the SCR, or fab a custom straight through mid pipe

3) Install EGR block off plates

4) water / meth injection (30/70) for keeping CBU in check and EGT lower.

My question is on the w/m injection. Most of the previous threads have been focused on power/EGT control. I'm curios how those with experience would approach injection if the goal was just to keep everything clean.....# of nozzles, nozzle size & location, boost starting & max progression, etc.

What would the ideal w/m injection setup be with this goal in mind?
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      03-31-2016, 06:22 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RollingCoal View Post
I'm not necessarily looking for power...reliability improvement is my primary goal.
Well, you're gonna get a lot of extra power with that tune!

I believe you have your water/meth ratio backwards. You'll want 70% water/30% meth. This will add about 30 hp and lower the EGT. If you go to 50/50, you will add even more power with less tendency to quench, but your EGT will increase.

I recommend a progressive controller with a single, moderately sized nozzle--say 7-10 gph (440-630 cc/min). Program injection to begin at about 26 psi and hit max at 34. If you're just using boost to control spray, that is. Your engine can build most of this boost at about 2000 rpm, and you will experience quenching with spray at this engine speed, so you want the spray happening at 3000 rpm and above.

Most controllers wire the pump directly to the battery and the controller supplies pump ground on a PWM (pulse wave modulation) basis. Make sure you put a relay in this controlled ground wire so the circuit is open when power is shut off to the controller! They have a nasty habit of failing with the ground circuit closed, meaning the pump runs continuously, even when the car is shut off.
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      03-31-2016, 08:01 AM   #3
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Yes, 70/30 is what I intend. Basically windshield washer fluid, and of course, I'll take the power increase, just not the intent of the improvements.

So with the progressive controller, is controlling from boost the best method, or should other options be considered?
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      03-31-2016, 08:02 AM   #4
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Well, anytime you add power your sacrificing some reliability.

The major trouble area's on this car are Carbon Build Up, SCR tank failures, Oil leaks, glow plug failures, also a lot of evaporator coil failures.

Blocking the EGR is all you need to do to mostly stop CBU to the point its irreverent in a typical ownership period. A tune isn't necessary for an EGR block, you will however throw an SES.

But increasing reliability doesn't seem to be your main goal, your tying to make as much power with a Stage II/ABC delete as possible. Which is fine. From folks who have PMd me there are some cars that fail from tuning. The most reliable "tuned" setup would be an EGR block and a JBD. You'd be done for $250ish.

W/M is unnecessary except for power.

Lost of folks have made it over 100K without being hit by CBU or ABC failures.

There have been quite a few folks who had their car's break shortly after tuning, but you won't see that in the forums mostly get that through PM's. There have been DDE failures, DP failures, injector failures, sensor failures, boost pipe failures, and SCR deactivation failures, etc. But again its only a minority of folks who have an issue with a tune.
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      03-31-2016, 09:16 AM   #5
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^ all these failures found their way to your inbox but not on the public forum?

Correct me if I'm wrong but, there have been a lot of injector, DP, boost, sensors failures with stock tunes as well. Far more problems than tuned. No?
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      03-31-2016, 09:33 AM   #6
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I bought my car about 3 years "new" with 11k on the clock. Currently I'm at around 66k. I bought my jbd the same week I bought the car and had my meth kit installed for about 2 years now. The into failure I have had since is a nox sensor and a SCR cat.
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      03-31-2016, 09:38 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335dsleeper View Post
...
Correct me if I'm wrong but, there have been a lot of injector, DP, boost, sensors failures with stock tunes as well. Far more problems than tuned. No?
I can't comment on after-tune problems, but from any standpoint that you care to view things from, the M57 has been extremely reliable (other than CBU and emissions systems.) More so than the gas engines IMHO.
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      03-31-2016, 09:46 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
I can't comment on after-tune problems, but from any standpoint that you care to view things from, the M57 has been extremely reliable (other than CBU and emissions systems.) More so than the gas engines IMHO.
I care to view things in reality. When the m57 suffers the same issues/ failures in stock form and with stock management, it's pretty obvious that similar failures post tuning aren't related to the performance tune but, possibly a design or manufacturing problem. If we were lifting heads, blowing head gaskets, melting pistons etc, yes, that would be an indication that aftermarket tuning is a problem. When the injectors, dpf, glow plugs, boost hoses have ALL failed with stock programming, tuning is not to blame.
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      03-31-2016, 10:37 AM   #9
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From everything making its way to the forums it looks like the only true holdback to the M57 (and several other diesels produced since DPF) is the emission system itself. My goal is not the power, hovere by eliminating the emission handicap, the true power will show up. So, the my plan is simply to eliminate the emission botle neck, which i think should improve reliability. Perhaps a stage 2 or 2+ tune is a bit extreme, but I will address fuel mapping with BPC at that time.

It's the w/m injection that I'm most curious about. I'm not looking for a multi nozzle extremes at ultra high boost, but looking for ideas on how to feed a 70/30 mixture in smaller quantities to address CBU.
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      03-31-2016, 11:05 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335dsleeper View Post
^ all these failures found their way to your inbox but not on the public forum?

Correct me if I'm wrong but, there have been a lot of injector, DP, boost, sensors failures with stock tunes as well. Far more problems than tuned. No?
yes, the reason that a lot of folks didn't post about their issues is they were worried that the tunner would drop support for their situation. The tunes had gone south, and there was damage to the car that they were/are fighting over the tuners for who was responsible. There are a lot of folks very reluctant to post about their tuning problems. I've had some folks post real nightmare situations, and wish they hadn't gotten tuned. Personally I plan on getting tuned.

I find this board totally opposite of VWVortex/GolfM6 where everyone blames the tunners for problems. Here no one wispers a thing if they have a tune issue. Plus a lot of threads on issues disappear routinely here...
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      03-31-2016, 11:35 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thecastle View Post
yes, the reason that a lot of folks didn't post about their issues is they were worried that the tunner would drop support for their situation. The tunes had gone south, and there was damage to the car that they were/are fighting over the tuners for who was responsible. There are a lot of folks very reluctant to post about their tuning problems. I've had some folks post real nightmare situations, and wish they hadn't gotten tuned. Personally I plan on getting tuned.

I find this board totally opposite of VWVortex/GolfM6 where everyone blames the tunners for problems. Here no one wispers a thing if they have a tune issue. Plus a lot of threads on issues disappear routinely here...
But were the problems due to the tune or BMW parts/ design? Stuff is going to break especially as cars age.

How does a tune go south?

People often blame the tune or tuner because they have no clue how these magic tunes work or function. If the engine didn't blow a head gasket or bend a rod etc, it's likely NOT the tune or tuner.

If there was an actual issue with the tune, everyone running that tune would suffer the same fate in a short amount of time... that's just not the case.
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      03-31-2016, 11:47 AM   #12
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Well regardless of issues stock or tuned, I think we can all agree that the DPF, SCR, and EGR do nothing to improve reliability. And even if they work exactly as intended their lifespan is such that an extensive repair will occur at some point(s). Also, I can vouch for the fact that I get 29 mpg during a commute with regen occurring and 36 mpg during my normal commute.

So, I'm just trying to think of w/m injection for cleaning purpose and potential ways to setup...perhaps smaller than normal injector at a lower starting boost, etc.
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      03-31-2016, 12:37 PM   #13
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op, there was recent discussion on another thread regarding these engines creating boost at low rpm, and that for CBU cleaning the typical performance w/m setup wouldn't be all that effective as they operate at higher rpm. I don't know if I have that right, but try searching for that thread.
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      03-31-2016, 12:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry335d View Post
op, there was recent discussion on another thread regarding these engines creating boost at low rpm, and that for CBU cleaning the typical performance w/m setup wouldn't be all that effective as they operate at higher rpm. I don't know if I have that right, but try searching for that thread.
Exactly what got me thinking about this. So if a performance setup that is designed to work at the higher boost levels (say 20-30lbs) isn't really optimal for CBU cleaning, could a smaller injector be used with a progressive controller starting at lower boost? May not work, but theoretically, how little injection would someone need if they started progressive injection at 12 lbs, etc?
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      03-31-2016, 01:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RollingCoal View Post
Exactly what got me thinking about this. So if a performance setup that is designed to work at the higher boost levels (say 20-30lbs) isn't really optimal for CBU cleaning, could a smaller injector be used with a progressive controller starting at lower boost? May not work, but theoretically, how little injection would someone need if they started progressive injection at 12 lbs, etc?
You hit higher boost just driving daily than you realize. Just cruising at 70 I see 6-8psi. Hwy tip in from 60-75 will see 25+ without a downshift. Any aggressive driving will see 30+. Install a boost gauge and you'll see what I mean. You're over 20psi far more than you think, even with regular driving.
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      03-31-2016, 01:34 PM   #16
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A more precise way to control a small w/m setup is the aquamist hfs4 system that takes injector duty cycle, rail pressure, and boost into it's calculations. This setup is designed to trigger off engine load rather than just X-psi boost. Spent a day driving/tweaking the adjustment pots and it works beautifully. You could run a single small nozzle and trigger it to start pretty low in the load range with the output being atomized very well.
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      03-31-2016, 01:35 PM   #17
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^ 1+
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      03-31-2016, 01:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitbread View Post
A more precise way to control a small w/m setup is the aquamist hfs4 system that takes injector duty cycle, rail pressure, and boost into it's calculations. This setup is designed to trigger off engine load rather than just X-psi boost. Spent a day driving/tweaking the adjustment pots and it works beautifully. You could run a single small nozzle and trigger it to start pretty low in the load range with the output being atomized very well.
This sounds like a great way to go. I'll research this a bit.
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      03-31-2016, 01:50 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335dsleeper View Post
You hit higher boost just driving daily than you realize. Just cruising at 70 I see 6-8psi. Hwy tip in from 60-75 will see 25+ without a downshift. Any aggressive driving will see 30+. Install a boost gauge and you'll see what I mean. You're over 20psi far more than you think, even with regular driving.
I've been monitoring with the Torque Pro app and see boost around 8-12 cruising. I'm not 100% sure on what the boost setup in the Torque profile should be though. Currently I have the profile set at -14.7lbs
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      03-31-2016, 02:48 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thecastle
Well, anytime you add power your sacrificing some reliability.

The major trouble area's on this car are Carbon Build Up, SCR tank failures, Oil leaks, glow plug failures, also a lot of evaporator coil failures.

Blocking the EGR is all you need to do to mostly stop CBU to the point its irreverent in a typical ownership period. A tune isn't necessary for an EGR block, you will however throw an SES.

But increasing reliability doesn't seem to be your main goal, your tying to make as much power with a Stage II/ABC delete as possible. Which is fine. From folks who have PMd me there are some cars that fail from tuning. The most reliable "tuned" setup would be an EGR block and a JBD. You'd be done for $250ish.

W/M is unnecessary except for power.

Lost of folks have made it over 100K without being hit by CBU or ABC failures.

There have been quite a few folks who had their car's break shortly after tuning, but you won't see that in the forums mostly get that through PM's. There have been DDE failures, DP failures, injector failures, sensor failures, boost pipe failures, and SCR deactivation failures, etc. But again its only a minority of folks who have an issue with a tune.
No downpipe failures here
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      03-31-2016, 04:37 PM   #21
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FWIW- when I performed carbon cleaning, I wasn't able to get the ports spotless. I was able to get all of the chunky clumps or carbon and the valves clean etc but not being able to wipe the runners clean, which obviously left a oily/ carbon film in the runners. I recently pulled my intake and every port is now very, very clean. Much cleaner after 1k miles of WI use than it was immediately following the CBU cleaning.
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      03-31-2016, 05:07 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335dsleeper View Post
But were the problems due to the tune or BMW parts/ design? Stuff is going to break especially as cars age.

How does a tune go south?

People often blame the tune or tuner because they have no clue how these magic tunes work or function. If the engine didn't blow a head gasket or bend a rod etc, it's likely NOT the tune or tuner.

If there was an actual issue with the tune, everyone running that tune would suffer the same fate in a short amount of time... that's just not the case.
Agreed, thats why some don't want to air their grievances. I'm pretty certain some of the cars wouldn't have had failures if they weren't tuned. However, as is always the case when you tune, if your car is marginal you can have failures. One case, had a DPF failure within 400 miles with a tune that was supposedly for stock hardware. Another guy received the wrong DDE back, and another had his DDE die. Yes, tuning really does result in some cases of damage and failure to the car. It happens on every platform I've run into.
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