[Grazy_87]

Hi Guys,


I am planning to convert my car to manual this winter, I was just wondering if anyone could think of any parts I may need / have forgotten.

List so far:
330d 6 speed gearbox
single mass flywheel
stage III clutch
CAE shifter
330d diff with quaife LSD??
330d propshaft, or can I used the existing one?
Pedal Box
Master cyclinder

Anything I have missed please let me know, as I will be doing this myself and therefore making mistakes along the way lol.

Cheers,

Aaron

[335duff]

I really hope you do this! I dont think I have any answers for you, just more questions.

Will the 330d transmission hold the torque? I know that you are planning on an uprated clutch, is the rest of the transmission strong enough?

Is your intention to retrofit a factory bmw clutch pedal/hydraulics, or use race parts like tilton pedalbox?

Also that all sounds really serious, what suspension setup will you be running?

Finally, any reason your going with a quaife?

I dont mean to suggest i think you are doing anaything wrong, just curious.

[Grazy_87]

Originally Posted by 335duff

I really hope you do this! I dont think I have any answers for you, just more questions.

Will the 330d transmission hold the torque? I know that you are planning on an uprated clutch, is the rest of the transmission strong enough?

Is your intention to retrofit a factory bmw clutch pedal/hydraulics, or use race parts like tilton pedalbox?

Also that all sounds really serious, what suspension setup will you be running?

Finally, any reason your going with a quaife?

I dont mean to suggest i think you are doing anaything wrong, just curious.

Questions are good! lol
The 330d gearbox is built like a truck gearbox and there is a race team near me who run one in their VLN 135d race car and haven't broken it.

Hopefully retrofit factory items as the car is still used as a daily between track days. I am currently running 3 way adjustable coilovers, polybushed front end, thicker sway bars, camber arms and big ass brakes. I am planning to solid mount the rear end when I do the conversion to help get the power down more effectively.

I have heard drexler diffs have a tendency to send the car sideways whereas the quaife allows more slippage before locking in turn hopefully being quicker on the track.

[larrysing]

Just be careful...

BMW's excuse for not offering the 335d in manual is "too much torque" so I would just make sure your components are bulletproof.

[Grazy_87]

Originally Posted by larrysing

Just be careful...

BMW's excuse for not offering the 335d in manual is "too much torque" so I would just make sure your components are bulletproof.

They do state that however, Id probably rephrase that as too much torque for ham fisted drivers who ride their clutches. I can imagine I will probably find the weak spots if there are any after a few sessions at the track. But with a manual box a tuned 335d will rip! I can imagine it being a bit of a monster.

[Bob@BPC]

Originally Posted by Grazy_87

They do state that however, Id probably rephrase that as too much torque for ham fisted drivers who ride their clutches. I can imagine I will probably find the weak spots if there are any after a few sessions at the track. But with a manual box a tuned 335d will rip! I can imagine it being a bit of a monster.

No trans limiters getting it the way of you letting out all the torque

[shnaggs]

Sounds like fun!

[Whitbread]

Originally Posted by Bob@BPC

No trans limiters getting it the way of you letting out all the torque

Hey Bob, do you happen to have a quick opinion on manual software feasibility on an edc17 335d? While the rest of modules in the car could be coded as a 335I manual, I imagine the ecu will be supremely unhappy with the tcu disconnected otherwise.

Tuning for Garzy should be much simpler as there are edc16 manual diesel files to start with from bmw, correct?

[Bob@BPC]

Originally Posted by Whitbread

Hey Bob, do you happen to have a quick opinion on manual software feasibility on an edc17 335d? While the rest of modules in the car could be coded as a 335I manual, I imagine the ecu will be supremely unhappy with the tcu disconnected otherwise.

Tuning for Garzy should be much simpler as there are edc16 manual diesel files to start with from bmw, correct?

It might be easier than most think, A quick test would be to code out $205 out of the VO, code the car, disconnect the EGS and jump the starter(bypass the pedal safety switch) to see if the engine would start.

[DozerDan82]

Originally Posted by Bob@BPC

It might be easier than most think, A quick test would be to code out $205 out of the VO, code the car, disconnect the EGS and jump the starter(bypass the pedal safety switch) to see if the engine would start.

That would be an awesome option! When I converted my 01 F350 to manual, I luckily found that all it really took was a re flash/chip and some wires jumped out. But that is a 01 Ford, it would be great if the BMW swap was similarly as easy.

[BB_cuda]

Iaknown started similar thread a while back wondering how NA 335d could be converted. It sounded like the gearing was going to be too tough to match up properly and cause too high RPM at high speed cruise. I'll see if his thread can be found.
EDIT: found it but don't know how to copy link on phone. It is called Manual trans conversion? He states final gear in 330d manual is .84 versus 335d top gear is .69. Not sure about differential ratio in a 330d but 335d is 2.81:1

[Bob@BPC]

Originally Posted by BB_cuda

Iaknown started similar thread a while back wondering how NA 335d could be converted. It sounded like the gearing was going to be too tough to match up properly and cause too high RPM at high speed cruise. I'll see if his thread can be found.
EDIT: found it but don't know how to copy link on phone. It is called Manual trans conversion? He states final gear in 330d manual is .84 versus 335d top gear is .69. Not sure about differential ratio in a 330d but 335d is 2.81:1

Well, the idea is, if the car will start with out seeing the EGS, then you can install whatever you want behind the M57. Doesn't have to be the 330D manual trans.

[iaknown]

Originally Posted by Bob@BPC

Well, the idea is, if the car will start with out seeing the EGS, then you can install whatever you want behind the M57. Doesn't have to be the 330D manual trans.

Yep, like a T56 Magnum aka TR6060? I'm sure you guys can make this happen Bob. I thought you had something similar in the works?

Here is the link gents: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...t=manual+trans

[Whitbread]

Originally Posted by BB_cuda

Iaknown started similar thread a while back wondering how NA 335d could be converted. It sounded like the gearing was going to be too tough to match up properly and cause too high RPM at high speed cruise. I'll see if his thread can be found.
EDIT: found it but don't know how to copy link on phone. It is called Manual trans conversion? He states final gear in 330d manual is .84 versus 335d top gear is .69. Not sure about differential ratio in a 330d but 335d is 2.81:1

Correct. If you toss a 330D trans in a US 335D, the ratios are not desirable for us as the 330D uses a 2.41 rear end to our 2.81. Even when you run the gear math with swapping in a 330d diff, you'll still gain 150rpm at 70mph in 6th gear.

The consensus of many involved in the other thread is that if you were go through the hassle of manual swapping, using the a tremec 6 speed which is rated to 700lb/ft is the most logical choice for both strength and serviceability. Downside is a custom flywheel, adapter plate, and driveshaft. That way, if you already have an lsd, you don't have to mess with the rear end at all either.

[DozerDan82]

Originally Posted by Whitbread

Correct. If you toss a 330D trans in a US 335D, the ratios are not desirable for us as the 330D uses a 2.41 rear end to our 2.81. Even when you run the gear math with swapping in a 330d diff, you'll still gain 150rpm at 70mph in 6th gear.

The consensus of many involved in the other thread is that if you were go through the hassle of manual swapping, using the a tremec 6 speed which is rated to 700lb/ft is the most logical choice for both strength and serviceability. Downside is a custom flywheel, adapter plate, and driveshaft. That way, if you already have an lsd, you don't have to mess with the rear end at all either.

Yes the numbers seem off, but in all reality 150 rpm is nothing. oh 2200 vs 2350 the end numbers are irrelevant at that point.

I was already semi guinea pig for my truck swap, not willing to follow suit on the bmw, but may be interested.

[Grazy_87]

I believe the shorter ratios in the 330d box would be beneficial for the track, ECU wise will be something I will have to work around. A local race team have done the conversion in their VLN 1 series BMW. I believe they are running a bosch motorsport ecu. I am going to pop in and see them next week to pick their brains. I will try and get some picks of their car whilst there.

I honestly think the benefits of this conversion would outweigh the head aches of getting it right, plus once its been done successfully the knowledge could be shared with others to in essence make it a straight forward job. Another reason for using the 330d gearbox is they are readily available in the UK and far from expensive.

[335duff]

Does tr6060 fit without modifying transmission tunnel?

Also, wanted to add that I imagine youd need a brake fluid resevoir from a manual car, as it feeds clutch also.

Id like to know more about that bosch ecu they use on the 135d, would it play nice with all the factory bmw stuff like cluster, sensors and emissions crap like scr and dpf etc?

Edit: Also, they mention a different steering rack, any idea which theyre using?

[Bob@BPC]

Originally Posted by 335duff

Does tr6060 fit without modifying transmission tunnel?

Also, wanted to add that I imagine youd need a brake fluid resevoir from a manual car, as it feeds clutch also.

Id like to know more about that bosch ecu they use on the 135d, would it play nice with all the factory bmw stuff like cluster, sensors and emissions crap like scr and dpf etc?

Edit: Also, they mention a different steering rack, any idea which theyre using?

If you are talking about the 135D racecar, Im sure its running a motec or a bosch standalone unit $5-10K im sure.

[335duff]

Their site says its the Bosch Motorsport 15.2, and quotes like 10k. Could that be incorporated into an otherwise stockish car? Or would you need to still use the factory ecu to run chassis functions?

Bob do you know anything about steering rack swaps? Anything to watch out for?

[Whitbread]

Originally Posted by 335duff

Their site says its the Bosch Motorsport 15.2, and quotes like 10k. Could that be incorporated into an otherwise stockish car? Or would you need to still use the factory ecu to run chassis functions?

Bob do you know anything about steering rack swaps? Anything to watch out for?

Bosch motorsport ecu's are for exactly that. They are made to run a race engine in a race car. They will not operate any emission controls nor talk to the rest of the car the way the oem ecu does. For just the bosch ecu cost, you could build a 600whp 335D running on a tuned oem ecu.

[Grazy_87]

I think the standard ecu would be fine with a little fettling, Id like to use my car as a track biased road car so wouldn't want a motorsport ecu and tbh I think it would be tad over the top for something like a manual swap. Definitely need a reservoir for the clutch fluid. But I imagine the holes and mounting points would all be on the car anyways.

On the subject of steering racks I'm fairly sure they said it was an M3 item, will definitely ask the question as may pop in to them tomorrow.

[335duff]

Originally Posted by Whitbread

Bosch motorsport ecu's are for exactly that. They are made to run a race engine in a race car. They will not operate any emission controls nor talk to the rest of the car the way the oem ecu does. For just the bosch ecu cost, you could build a 600whp 335D running on a tuned oem ecu.

Thanks. The video for the m3 with syvecs shows everything in the car working. I'm aware that you could get lots of things for 10k.