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      01-15-2018, 12:53 PM   #1
Absurdium
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UPDATE: So I know I promised to update the thread with further impressions but I never did... After spending some time on the track, here are my further findings!

General/setup: So with track duty in mind, most of you track junkies probably already know this but the M4 really is leaps and bound over the E92 (stock for stock). Just as context, I added in ground control camber plates (2.5/1.7 camber front/back with slight toe in), endless RF650 fluid, PFC08 pads, and ran a dedicated nt01 set (275/305) on apex Sm-10. Let's dive in!

Engine: Very, very impressed. Really grew to like the sound more, but the cooling on the S55 is really something. I remember running my E92, where it was very easy to push the S65 above 120 celsius. While I personally never encountered limp mode, this was when I was more at a novice/intermediate skill level, running stock tires. With the pace I have now, I'd be concerned about the heat management in a E92. With that said, the S55 is simply amazing. Temps never went above 100 celsius, and actually went down like many of you reported. This was tested on both a technical track without any straights for cooling (Mosport DDT), and also a fast track with ample straights for cooling (Mosport GP); nothing fazes teh S55. Oh, and power is very good. Really closes the gap between sport coupes and exotics. By no means am I implying that a M4 is going to keep up with anything exotic given equal drivers, but because of the much more potent motor, the difference in straight line speed versus say, a GTR, is small enough that it can be overcome by driver skills, even on a big track.

Chasis/suspension: Very pleased with it here as well. When I had the E92 and sat in a friends track prepped s2000 with coilovers, the difference in suspension was night and day. A track prepped car felt much more planted, connected, and flat whereas the E92 suspension felt like there was an extra joint or extra looseness in the suspension. Now it is very good for a street car, but given its weight and chassis, it was definitely a case where the car did not handle quick transitions well and you had to leaning into the chassis gradually to get the cornering speed you want. The M4 closes that gap and fall in between. No, the M4 is not a lightweight car (though respectable within its class). But the suspension is well sorted enough that quick transitions is possible, without unsettling the car too much. The fact that the rear is bolted directly to the subframe is definitely more than just a marketing exercise. A dedicated coilover system will still be much better, and I'll undoubtedly go that route down the road. But for now, I am very pleased with the stock suspension.

Brakes: I really like the stock calipers for their ease of pad swaps, but I was very silly to not use a punch with hammering back the pins in; PSA for future DIYer, use a punch to hammer the pins in! You'll save a lot of heartaches that will be caused by the chips on your precious caliper. I did find solace in not being able to see these chips since they face the inside Performance wise, these are pretty good. Haven't been to any tracks that are extremely hard on the brakes, but did get some loss of braking power going into turn 5a at Mosport GP. However, this was during a pretty hot session and I actually think it was the tires that were getting greasy/overheated. Otherwise, the brakes are good and I definitely recommend PFC08 and endless RF650. Pedal feel is much improved after the fluid swap, and to my surprise, the PFC08s actually have better cold bite than OEM. HOWEVER, PFC08 is not for the faint of heart. During my commute to and from the GO-train station, my car's squealing far exceeded that of the stopping locomotive... you have been warned. But, the pads held up well during the track sessions, left minimal uneven pad deposits, and scraped them off within days. Brake judder, and pad deposits was something I struggled with every car I've had including the E92; very happy that this is not an issue on the F8X.

Overall impression/conclusion: So yeah. M4 is good. The adjustability, the power, the stamina of the hardware really impressed me. I will say that the DSC is very intrusive even in MDM. However, the M4 has a lot of torque, so please be alert if you choose to disable DSC. Sliding and slip angles are progressive though, so at least for the late ZCP models, the car will not actively try to kill you (I know that early models tend to be more snappy). For me, this car is going to be a lifelong build. This was decided before the purchase rather impulsively. However, I'm glad to see that for once, my impulsiveness was correct; M4 is a keeper. Oh, I'll update this thread with some pictures, some from my experience with trillium BMW events. Disclaimer: I am relatively new to tracking with only a year and so of experience, so my impressions may differ from yours. I am running in the intermediate group here but was able to move into advanced group since then.

Sidenote: I do get some NVH from the ground control plates, and got the dreaded clicking steering sound. However my mechanic reinstalled everything and the clicking now seems to only have appeared once since then, but mostly disappeared. I take it this is more of a nuisance than a safety hazard?

Hello everyone,

I've been a long time lurker around here, posting occasionally ever since I put in the order for my new Tanzanite M4. After much delay, it's finally here and I'd like to share some thoughts and my opinions on the car after having driven about 600km. I know this won't be the first review on the M4 being this late into the production cycle, but I guess there's no harm in me passing some time to share some thoughts with you all. We all check these forums out of habit more than actual need for information anyhow

My M4 is MY18 with CP, 6MT, MPE, and standard steel brakes.

First, immediate impressions:
Great profile and design in general. I think there may be a few things that BMW could've done better for this car but the exterior design is spot on. Proportions are great and what you end up with is a great looking coupe. You sit lower in this car than in the E92; I actually noticed this due to the difficulty getting in and out of the car as you sink into these seats, versus in the E92 where you always felt like you were sitting on a couple of dictionaries or something despite putting the seating position in its lowest setting. By no means as low as say a cayman or Toyota 86, but pretty good.

Interior:
Not the prettiest or boldest design, but feels very robust and extremely functional. Everything is within reach and seems like whatever button you reach for, your elbow is always bent at the most comfortable angle. I think we all know BMW is not an industry leader in interior but having the full leather in the cabin makes the car feel quite plush. The seats are great, and are much needed improvements over the E92 M3. When I changed hands from the 335iS to the E92 M3, I appreciated the upgraded seats and shoulder bolsters. However, you can tell by both the shape of the seat as well as the way they feel, that although better, they won't hold you tight in place on a track setting. The M4 seats are different. I feel secure enough to be somewhat confident that these might be able to hold me somewhat well on the track; I guess I'll find out come summer time. Oh, yeah the HUD is pretty great... If you are thinking of putting in an order for a F8x, definitely check this option.

Engine performance:
I'm... unsure what to say. Since I'm in the break-in period, I've yet to WOT or go above 5000k revs... except this one time: was in 4th gear and gave it a bit on an on-ramp. Car went above 5000k rev without me noticing, because I really did not think I was going that fast. I subsequently looked slightly down at my HUD (seriously, get this!) to realize I was very wrong. So yeah, it's a pretty potent motor. However I gotta say, you don't really get the kick of torque like you do in the 335iS. Yes, the car has a lot of torque, but it does not feel like the N54 at all. I guess you could say while I know the motor is potent, it doesn't feel extremely fast keeping it below 5k revs. This is good news to me though, because since I already know from videos and tests to know that the M4 is very quick. My indifference to the power at low revs just means the power is hiding further up in the rev range!

Sound:
I think I have an unpopular opinion here when it comes to sound. I think S55 sounds more like the S65 rather than a modified N55. I also think S55 doesn't sound very similar to S65 at all; bear with me. I think that S55 share the metallic, raspy sound with the S65. N55/N54 from what I remember doesn't exhibit this at all. So in that sense, S55 feels like the younger adoptive brother of the S65 V8: definitely not related hardware wise, but you can tell they had the same parent so they feel like they were raised the same way. The sound is very loud, louder than my E92 with the Remus race exhaust. I appreciate the startup sequence of a slight rev built into it. I have no doubt it'll scare children and small dogs. However the tone is not necessarily a sonorous or beautiful one. It just sounds purposeful, and sounds like the engine is almost trying to say: "Yeah I'm not a piano. My purpose is to make power, and I do that well."; a very no-bs tone. I like that. It is rough, it is loud, it is coarse; I believe it is the most motorsport sounding power unit of all the recent BMW M cars. What I don't like however, is the burbles when you put the throttle mode into sport plus. It sounds very artificial and is a bit too much. Just sounds like my car has indigestion.

Steering, suspension, handling:
Steering is not bad, and I don't feel that it's lacking compared to E92. Suspension is very compliant. I feel less roll and better body control than the E92 M3, and miles ahead of 335is, yet the suspension is softer and more comfortable than both! What magic. Mechanical grip feels high, although disclaimer: I'm in Canada on 245/255 performance winters. Grip is not there on the tire side so I'll have to check back on this once summers goes on.

Final thoughts:
I do not have enough experience with the car to make a definitive say on how the car is. However, I really like the car's personality and everything so far has been nothing but pleasant discoveries.

Glad I finally found out what the fuss is about (just look at the number of threads on F80Post.

Pics will come later. Happy to join the forum.

Updated with pics:

Not sure how to rotate them on the mobile app.. will have to fix later.
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Last edited by Absurdium; 06-21-2018 at 10:36 PM..
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      01-15-2018, 01:12 PM   #2
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Great review And congrats
Looking forward to more thoughts, reviews and pics
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      01-15-2018, 01:26 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by uniqueMR View Post
Great review And congrats
Looking forward to more thoughts, reviews and pics
Thanks for the warm welcome! Definitely will post pics soon but the car is covered in salt to the point where it's almost heart breaking.. Will give it a quick wash later this week and post some pics!
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      01-15-2018, 01:35 PM   #4
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Probably a lack of turbo lag which is why you think the 335is felt more "torquey".

When there's turbo lag and then you get a violent jerk of power it feels like you're going faster for sure. My WRX felt like it was crazy fast when it was cold out cause the turbo kicking in would push you back into your seat suddenly and hard.
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      01-15-2018, 01:45 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by aerostar View Post
Probably a lack of turbo lag which is why you think the 335is felt more "torquey".

When there's turbo lag and then you get a violent jerk of power it feels like you're going faster for sure. My WRX felt like it was crazy fast when it was cold out cause the turbo kicking in would push you back into your seat suddenly and hard.
Good theory. I don't remember N54 to be super laggy but everything is relative. I don't doubt that M4 has a better response time. I have suspicions that the new throttle mapping for BMW isn't as "on-off" than before. Even in sport plus in the M4, there is a good amount of throttle travel to modulate the power where as in the E92 M3 and the 335iS, in sport plus or by default on the 335iS, you are able to apply 70% throttle within the first 40% of actual travel.

Although, maybe I'm just babying it subconsciously and have yet to discover the power
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      01-15-2018, 01:47 PM   #6
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Congrats op.

Did your n54 have a turbo swap? If so, hopefully your stock car has enough power. If not.... it's the dsc holding you back.

Try wide open throttle to redline and dsc off before making a final judgement!
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      01-15-2018, 02:01 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Congrats op.

Did your n54 have a turbo swap? If so, hopefully your stock car has enough power. If not.... it's the dsc holding you back.

Try wide open throttle to redline and dsc off before making a final judgement!
Thanks for the welcome!

Nope, it was a stock N54, though it was the higher output version with overboost (370ft/lbs)! However I think my comments may be misinterpreted here. My comments on the power delivery were more of a praise for linearity, than a criticism on lack of power. I know the car has tons of power, and if anything, dsc is not the limiting factor here. I actually took dsc off on the first drive and wanted to experience the power with no interruptions. 245/255 PA4s preferred wheel spins on straights all the way up to 3rd gear and gave a sideway response on the first left turn I encountered

One of my biggest fear before receiving the car was on the throttle being too twitchy in sport plus. I really did not want to have auto-rev match take away my joy of rev-matching so I knew the majority of my time will be spent in sport-plus throttle. Thankfully, this concern does not seem to be valid after driving the car.

I think another factor is all of our adjustment to generally more powerful cars nowadays; a new 330i does 0-60 in the 5 second range. As I moved into cars with more and more power, I got used to having more power. It's also been more than a year since I've driven my 335iS. If I drove it back to back with the M4, I have no doubt the power in the M4 at all revs is superior by a significant margin.
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      01-15-2018, 02:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absurdium View Post
However I gotta say, you don't really get the kick of torque like you do in the 335iS. Yes, the car has a lot of torque, but it does not feel like the N54 at all.

Sound:
I think S55 sounds more like the S65 rather than a modified N55. I also think S55 doesn't sound very similar to S65 at all; bear with me.
Nice write up! A couple of thoughts as I just switched from a 2015 non-CP to the 2018 CP still pre break-in too:

(1.) The 2015 DEFINITELY gave you a kick of torque
This 2018 CP is much pussifyed in terms of throttle response and DCT programming. Seriously, the sport+ in this car feels like "efficient-" in my 15. The no-experience pussies won (and I think that'll be for all BMWs going forward. PUSSIES! ). Nevertheless this isn't all bad news: the more relaxed controls give you much more granular control and in a few test runs I've done I'm already running faster and I haven't opened it up yet. Still, lack of the widow-maker feel makes the car feel less insane

(2.) Do you have ASD coded off?
If not, you don't know what this car sounds like. With ASD on (obvs in s+) the car does kinda sound like the S65 - my 2015 had ASD disabled and stock exhaust with the flap plugs pulled ... it didn't sound remotely close to an S65. It sounds like some bizarre diesel frankenstein. After the 1200 I'll have ASD coded off, pull the exhaust flap plugs, and then will make a ruling. BTW - I think the burbles are horrible - if I could code them off I would. In a crazy turn of events I'm actually missing my 2015 sound
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      01-15-2018, 02:21 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Nice write up! A couple of thoughts as I just switched from a 2015 non-CP to the 2018 CP still pre break-in too:

(1.) The 2015 DEFINITELY gave you a kick of torque
This 2018 CP is much pussifyed in terms of throttle response and DCT programming. Seriously, the sport+ in this car feels like "efficient-" in my 15. The no-experience pussies won (and I think that'll be for all BMWs going forward. PUSSIES! ). Nevertheless this isn't all bad news: the more relaxed controls give you much more granular control and in a few test runs I've done I'm already running faster and I haven't opened it up yet. Still, lack of the widow-maker feel makes the car feel less insane

(2.) Do you have ASD coded off?
If not, you don't know what this car sounds like. With ASD on (obvs in s+) the car does kinda sound like the S65 - my 2015 had ASD disabled and stock exhaust with the flap plugs pulled ... it didn't sound remotely close to an S65. It sounds like some bizarre diesel frankenstein. After the 1200 I'll have ASD coded off, pull the exhaust flap plugs, and then will make a ruling. BTW - I think the burbles are horrible - if I could code them off I would. In a crazy turn of events I'm actually missing my 2015 sound
Thanks!

I drove an early production M4 years ago and I do remember it being a touchier throttle. However I actually appreciate this new throttle setting as I think it is more beneficial for trying to be smooth and fast. I am someone who drove the E92 M3 primarily in Comfort throttle, so factor that in; a long throttle travel makes me happy. I think in a perfect world though, you should be able to disable rev-match with a separate button and we can all choose whatever throttle we want. What we have now is acceptable however

I suspected this could have something to do it, and I actually just coded it off last night. Definitely going to report back after spending some more time with it off. (Stay tuned for an updated response!)

Update GrussGott
Okay so, with active sound coded off, the car definitely sounds different. I didn't realize how much volume the active sound was responsible for; the car is much quieter now at low revs. Mid range sounds similar, more natural but also slightly less volume.

As for the power, it is definitely due to the throttle mapping... the amount of speed you can pick up in 6th at 3000 rpm is astonishing; I'd even argue that this is a harder pull than a 2nd gear pull in a 330i.

Overall, getting used to the car more and more and I'm really loving it more and more. I made a good purchase.
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      01-15-2018, 02:25 PM   #10
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Congrats and welcome aboard. Its nice to see another GTA'er and fellow X10 M!
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      01-15-2018, 03:19 PM   #11
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Thank you for the review and congrats
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      01-15-2018, 07:58 PM   #12
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Thank you for the review and congrats
To OP - great write up. One big difference you'll notice on this car is the traction with summer tires and warm weather - you can put down WAY more power car come this spring/summer - it will feel like a completely different car! Once your car is broken in and you have your traction control off, summer tires and warm dry pavement - the acceleration is going to be in another whole universe (way faster than N54 or S65).

Recent dyno testing has shown that he CP makes less torque and horsepower than the pre-2016 software "civic" S55 below about 3000 rpm. However - the CP makes a good amount more power vs. the pre-2016 software civic M3 above 3000 (especially in the 5500-7500 rpm range).

Stated differently - if you're impressed with the car now in winter conditions with winter tires and pre-break-in "you ain't seen nothin' yet!"
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      01-15-2018, 08:35 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Nice write up! A couple of thoughts as I just switched from a 2015 non-CP to the 2018 CP still pre break-in too:

(1.) The 2015 DEFINITELY gave you a kick of torque
This 2018 CP is much pussifyed in terms of throttle response and DCT programming. Seriously, the sport+ in this car feels like "efficient-" in my 15. The no-experience pussies won (and I think that'll be for all BMWs going forward. PUSSIES! ). Nevertheless this isn't all bad news: the more relaxed controls give you much more granular control and in a few test runs I've done I'm already running faster and I haven't opened it up yet. Still, lack of the widow-maker feel makes the car feel less insane

(2.) Do you have ASD coded off?
If not, you don't know what this car sounds like. With ASD on (obvs in s+) the car does kinda sound like the S65 - my 2015 had ASD disabled and stock exhaust with the flap plugs pulled ... it didn't sound remotely close to an S65. It sounds like some bizarre diesel frankenstein. After the 1200 I'll have ASD coded off, pull the exhaust flap plugs, and then will make a ruling. BTW - I think the burbles are horrible - if I could code them off I would. In a crazy turn of events I'm actually missing my 2015 sound
Isn't that funny, people actually accept that reducing low end torque is a "fix"? I would be freakin' LIVID if an "update" reduced the power on my cars in any way shape or form

A bonus of coding off the ASD (on my '15), is I thought the HK system sounded a bit clearer after. Maybe because it could focus more on playing music and not the fake sounds

EDIT: OP way to go. spinning tires and going sideways while staying under 5k rpm. Just imagine when you use the full throttle and full RPM range
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      01-16-2018, 08:12 AM   #14
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Nice write up! A couple of thoughts as I just switched from a 2015 non-CP to the 2018 CP still pre break-in too:

(1.) The 2015 DEFINITELY gave you a kick of torque
This 2018 CP is much pussifyed in terms of throttle response and DCT programming. Seriously, the sport+ in this car feels like "efficient-" in my 15. The no-experience pussies won (and I think that'll be for all BMWs going forward. PUSSIES! ). Nevertheless this isn't all bad news: the more relaxed controls give you much more granular control and in a few test runs I've done I'm already running faster and I haven't opened it up yet. Still, lack of the widow-maker feel makes the car feel less insane

(2.) Do you have ASD coded off?
If not, you don't know what this car sounds like. With ASD on (obvs in s+) the car does kinda sound like the S65 - my 2015 had ASD disabled and stock exhaust with the flap plugs pulled ... it didn't sound remotely close to an S65. It sounds like some bizarre diesel frankenstein. After the 1200 I'll have ASD coded off, pull the exhaust flap plugs, and then will make a ruling. BTW - I think the burbles are horrible - if I could code them off I would. In a crazy turn of events I'm actually missing my 2015 sound
Isn't that funny, people actually accept that reducing low end torque is a "fix"? I would be freakin' LIVID if an "update" reduced the power on my cars in any way shape or form

A bonus of coding off the ASD (on my '15), is I thought the HK system sounded a bit clearer after. Maybe because it could focus more on playing music and not the fake sounds

EDIT: OP way to go. spinning tires and going sideways while staying under 5k rpm. Just imagine when you use the full throttle and full RPM range
Everyone is entitled to their opinions (f'n p*ssies or not - LOL). However - I would bet that 8 times out of 10 - the ZCP will accelerate faster below 3000 rpm given equal conditions, drivers and otherwise equal cars).

I like to track my car, and I also daily drive through winter slush - when I drove my 2015 civic M3 - you couldn't go above 80% throttle when accelerating from a stop and at lower speeds unless conditions were basically perfect. If the ZCP has less than a 20% reduction in horsepower and torque below 3000 rpm - then the slight reduction in power below that rpm range is purely academic under 95% of the conditions anyway (and the ZCP will be faster above that range anyway). Not to mention - you have more confidence to get on the gas a little more at low rpm ranges.
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      01-16-2018, 08:44 AM   #15
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Congrats and welcome to the board. Great review between the 2 cars. Pretty sure you'll find a lot more differences between the 2 when comes summer time.
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      01-16-2018, 09:20 AM   #16
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Congrats and welcome aboard. Its nice to see another GTA'er and fellow X10 M!
This took me a moment to get and I thought you have mistaken me as some sort of X-range SUV owner. But I knew I recognized that code from somewhere! All that time decoding the vin and tracking the car wasn't a complete waste of time I guess . Thanks for the warm welcome! Definitely good to see more local owners, especially another tanzanite Blue F8x! Although I think we should keep the paint somewhat individual like its name suggests. We should probably advertise TB as the worst color ever from now and keep it an exclusive club
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Thank you for the review and congrats
Thanks for the welcome! Glad to finally join you all

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Thank you for the review and congrats
To OP - great write up. One big difference you'll notice on this car is the traction with summer tires and warm weather - you can put down WAY more power car come this spring/summer - it will feel like a completely different car! Once your car is broken in and you have your traction control off, summer tires and warm dry pavement - the acceleration is going to be in another whole universe (way faster than N54 or S65).

Recent dyno testing has shown that he CP makes less torque and horsepower than the pre-2016 software "civic" S55 below about 3000 rpm. However - the CP makes a good amount more power vs. the pre-2016 software civic M3 above 3000 (especially in the 5500-7500 rpm range).

Stated differently - if you're impressed with the car now in winter conditions with winter tires and pre-break-in "you ain't seen nothin' yet!"
Thanks for the welcome!

Okay yeah I'd like to experience that please. Believe it or not, the reason for getting this car is not to use it as a winter beater like it is now . Sarcasm aside, that is very interesting info about the tuning of the power characteristics. I'm not at all discouraged by this and I actually see this as a benefit for drivers who will be at the track. The less abrupt torque delivery should allow drivers to be much smoother and bring ease when adding power on exits. I think the Ferrari 488 does something similar where they lower the torque on purpose at low Rev to make for a more linear engine feel. However, definitely a subjective opinion here though. Having a neck snapping low end sounds fun too

I'll say this though, the M4 makes for a pretty good winter car. Had a blizzard last night here in GTA; even with rwd, there is a lot of inherent poise and stability from the chassis itself. It holds a line in snow and slush very well. Actually gave me more confidence at times than driving my A6 on Xi3 at times due to a more connected feel to the chassis and being given more info as to what the car is doing through feel. Traction issue is there though due to RWD, but I'm very appreciative for the stability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrussGott View Post
Nice write up! A couple of thoughts as I just switched from a 2015 non-CP to the 2018 CP still pre break-in too:

(1.) The 2015 DEFINITELY gave you a kick of torque
This 2018 CP is much pussifyed in terms of throttle response and DCT programming. Seriously, the sport+ in this car feels like "efficient-" in my 15. The no-experience pussies won (and I think that'll be for all BMWs going forward. PUSSIES! ). Nevertheless this isn't all bad news: the more relaxed controls give you much more granular control and in a few test runs I've done I'm already running faster and I haven't opened it up yet. Still, lack of the widow-maker feel makes the car feel less insane

(2.) Do you have ASD coded off?
If not, you don't know what this car sounds like. With ASD on (obvs in s+) the car does kinda sound like the S65 - my 2015 had ASD disabled and stock exhaust with the flap plugs pulled ... it didn't sound remotely close to an S65. It sounds like some bizarre diesel frankenstein. After the 1200 I'll have ASD coded off, pull the exhaust flap plugs, and then will make a ruling. BTW - I think the burbles are horrible - if I could code them off I would. In a crazy turn of events I'm actually missing my 2015 sound
Isn't that funny, people actually accept that reducing low end torque is a "fix"? I would be freakin' LIVID if an "update" reduced the power on my cars in any way shape or form

A bonus of coding off the ASD (on my '15), is I thought the HK system sounded a bit clearer after. Maybe because it could focus more on playing music and not the fake sounds

EDIT: OP way to go. spinning tires and going sideways while staying under 5k rpm. Just imagine when you use the full throttle and full RPM range
I do think it's incremental changes to the tuning, probably a difference of 15ft-lb if anything and peak torque should stay the same. I don't mind this for the potential to be smoother at the track. Interestingly enough, for the M4CS, up-to-date dynos shows that BMW added power mainly by increasing torque, especially in the low end; there seems to be less incentive to rev the M4CS power unit as well as peak power drop off earlier than in the standard and CP car iirc.

After coding it off, I'm finding a lot less noise, which made music easier to hear as a result for me. I think I like it off better, not from an aural standpoint, but by principle. Piping in fake sounds doesn't sound very motorsport like.

Haha I wasn't aware there was any other way of driving a F8X off the lot? Didn't everyone do this? . Jokes aside, I'll admit the slippery conditions here in Ontario was more than helpful in making sideways action happen. I will take full responsibility for pressing the DSC button though (Sidenote: Just like in the E92, taking off DSC is extremely easy; BMW even gave us two buttons right by our thumbs as shortcuts. For all the flak that BMW get for everything else, they got this right!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wdskukm3 View Post
Congrats and welcome to the board. Great review between the 2 cars. Pretty sure you'll find a lot more differences between the 2 when comes summer time.
Thanks for the warm welcome! I can already tell that the M4 chassis is a much better sorted then previous generations. This all just makes me that much more excited for the summer time
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      01-16-2018, 09:36 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post
Everyone is entitled to their opinions (f'n p*ssies or not - LOL). However - I would bet that 8 times out of 10 - the ZCP will accelerate faster below 3000 rpm given equal conditions, drivers and otherwise equal cars).

I like to track my car, and I also daily drive through winter slush - when I drove my 2015 civic M3 - you couldn't go above 80% throttle when accelerating from a stop and at lower speeds unless conditions were basically perfect. If the ZCP has less than a 20% reduction in horsepower and torque below 3000 rpm - then the slight reduction in power below that rpm range is purely academic under 95% of the conditions anyway (and the ZCP will be faster above that range anyway). Not to mention - you have more confidence to get on the gas a little more at low rpm ranges.
I think our opinions are similar although I do think it's a subjective one. I'm okay with this toned down torque delivery due to the ability to be smooth and therefore faster. However for others, paying more for a newer model while having a reduction in torque (and therefore power as power is a function of torque) at lower rev ranges doesn't sound right from a principle point of view; you're literally paying more for less in some regard. Although I think the difference in tuning isn't necessarily a bad thing, I do understand that for most, when you pay more for something, especially for ZCP which costs about 7K here in Canada, you want an improvement in all front, not an increase in some ways and a decrease in others.

That being said, I came from a E92 S65 and I was in the crowd that was very content with the peaky nature of that motor; not bothered by the lower torque at low revs at all. Therefore, this small sacrifice in lower end torque for a more linear powerband is appreciated
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      01-16-2018, 10:32 AM   #18
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Welcome and nice review write up.
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      01-16-2018, 03:11 PM   #19
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Welcome and nice review write up.
Haha thanks! Glad you enjoyed it.
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      01-16-2018, 08:22 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absurdium View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post
Everyone is entitled to their opinions (f'n p*ssies or not - LOL). However - I would bet that 8 times out of 10 - the ZCP will accelerate faster below 3000 rpm given equal conditions, drivers and otherwise equal cars).

I like to track my car, and I also daily drive through winter slush - when I drove my 2015 civic M3 - you couldn't go above 80% throttle when accelerating from a stop and at lower speeds unless conditions were basically perfect. If the ZCP has less than a 20% reduction in horsepower and torque below 3000 rpm - then the slight reduction in power below that rpm range is purely academic under 95% of the conditions anyway (and the ZCP will be faster above that range anyway). Not to mention - you have more confidence to get on the gas a little more at low rpm ranges.
I think our opinions are similar although I do think it's a subjective one. I'm okay with this toned down torque delivery due to the ability to be smooth and therefore faster. However for others, paying more for a newer model while having a reduction in torque (and therefore power as power is a function of torque) at lower rev ranges doesn't sound right from a principle point of view; you're literally paying more for less in some regard. Although I think the difference in tuning isn't necessarily a bad thing, I do understand that for most, when you pay more for something, especially for ZCP which costs about 7K here in Canada, you want an improvement in all front, not an increase in some ways and a decrease in others.

That being said, I came from a E92 S65 and I was in the crowd that was very content with the peaky nature of that motor; not bothered by the lower torque at low revs at all. Therefore, this small sacrifice in lower end torque for a more linear powerband is appreciated
Quote:
Originally Posted by Absurdium View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post
Everyone is entitled to their opinions (f'n p*ssies or not - LOL). However - I would bet that 8 times out of 10 - the ZCP will accelerate faster below 3000 rpm given equal conditions, drivers and otherwise equal cars).

I like to track my car, and I also daily drive through winter slush - when I drove my 2015 civic M3 - you couldn't go above 80% throttle when accelerating from a stop and at lower speeds unless conditions were basically perfect. If the ZCP has less than a 20% reduction in horsepower and torque below 3000 rpm - then the slight reduction in power below that rpm range is purely academic under 95% of the conditions anyway (and the ZCP will be faster above that range anyway). Not to mention - you have more confidence to get on the gas a little more at low rpm ranges.
I think our opinions are similar although I do think it's a subjective one. I'm okay with this toned down torque delivery due to the ability to be smooth and therefore faster. However for others, paying more for a newer model while having a reduction in torque (and therefore power as power is a function of torque) at lower rev ranges doesn't sound right from a principle point of view; you're literally paying more for less in some regard. Although I think the difference in tuning isn't necessarily a bad thing, I do understand that for most, when you pay more for something, especially for ZCP which costs about 7K here in Canada, you want an improvement in all front, not an increase in some ways and a decrease in others.

That being said, I came from a E92 S65 and I was in the crowd that was very content with the peaky nature of that motor; not bothered by the lower torque at low revs at all. Therefore, this small sacrifice in lower end torque for a more linear powerband is appreciated
Actually you're not getting "less" for your money when comparing a ZCP versus a non-ZCP 2018 model. Starting with software changes in 2016-2017, both the ZCP AND NON-ZCP F8x make less torque and horsepower below about 3,000 rpm than the pre-software updated F8x (2015 and 2016 models before the ZCP option was available). See this thread for more illustration: Dyno Plots of old stock, latest stock, ZCP and CS software http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1454386
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      01-17-2018, 01:18 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Absurdium View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post
Everyone is entitled to their opinions (f'n p*ssies or not - LOL). However - I would bet that 8 times out of 10 - the ZCP will accelerate faster below 3000 rpm given equal conditions, drivers and otherwise equal cars).

I like to track my car, and I also daily drive through winter slush - when I drove my 2015 civic M3 - you couldn't go above 80% throttle when accelerating from a stop and at lower speeds unless conditions were basically perfect. If the ZCP has less than a 20% reduction in horsepower and torque below 3000 rpm - then the slight reduction in power below that rpm range is purely academic under 95% of the conditions anyway (and the ZCP will be faster above that range anyway). Not to mention - you have more confidence to get on the gas a little more at low rpm ranges.
I think our opinions are similar although I do think it's a subjective one. I'm okay with this toned down torque delivery due to the ability to be smooth and therefore faster. However for others, paying more for a newer model while having a reduction in torque (and therefore power as power is a function of torque) at lower rev ranges doesn't sound right from a principle point of view; you're literally paying more for less in some regard. Although I think the difference in tuning isn't necessarily a bad thing, I do understand that for most, when you pay more for something, especially for ZCP which costs about 7K here in Canada, you want an improvement in all front, not an increase in some ways and a decrease in others.

That being said, I came from a E92 S65 and I was in the crowd that was very content with the peaky nature of that motor; not bothered by the lower torque at low revs at all. Therefore, this small sacrifice in lower end torque for a more linear powerband is appreciated
Quote:
Originally Posted by Absurdium View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post
Everyone is entitled to their opinions (f'n p*ssies or not - LOL). However - I would bet that 8 times out of 10 - the ZCP will accelerate faster below 3000 rpm given equal conditions, drivers and otherwise equal cars).

I like to track my car, and I also daily drive through winter slush - when I drove my 2015 civic M3 - you couldn't go above 80% throttle when accelerating from a stop and at lower speeds unless conditions were basically perfect. If the ZCP has less than a 20% reduction in horsepower and torque below 3000 rpm - then the slight reduction in power below that rpm range is purely academic under 95% of the conditions anyway (and the ZCP will be faster above that range anyway). Not to mention - you have more confidence to get on the gas a little more at low rpm ranges.
I think our opinions are similar although I do think it's a subjective one. I'm okay with this toned down torque delivery due to the ability to be smooth and therefore faster. However for others, paying more for a newer model while having a reduction in torque (and therefore power as power is a function of torque) at lower rev ranges doesn't sound right from a principle point of view; you're literally paying more for less in some regard. Although I think the difference in tuning isn't necessarily a bad thing, I do understand that for most, when you pay more for something, especially for ZCP which costs about 7K here in Canada, you want an improvement in all front, not an increase in some ways and a decrease in others.

That being said, I came from a E92 S65 and I was in the crowd that was very content with the peaky nature of that motor; not bothered by the lower torque at low revs at all. Therefore, this small sacrifice in lower end torque for a more linear powerband is appreciated
Actually you're not getting "less" for your money when comparing a ZCP versus a non-ZCP 2018 model. Starting with software changes in 2016-2017, both the ZCP AND NON-ZCP F8x make less torque and horsepower below about 3,000 rpm than the pre-software updated F8x (2015 and 2016 models before the ZCP option was available). See this thread for more illustration: Dyno Plots of old stock, latest stock, ZCP and CS software http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1454386
Ah I see. In any case, I'm definitely in the camp that is okay with this change. I think we can all agree that the F8X platform is not one where power is an issue regardless.. I think we're finally at a point where there is enough power to make this car seriously quick on the track with dedicated suspension mods.
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      01-17-2018, 01:20 PM   #22
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On a side note, are there no headlight washers on the M4 in Canada? Had some visibility issues with the LED headlights during a snowstorm; realized there was a lot of slush and snow built up in front of the headlights. Don't see any washer covers as well.
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