[bono]

Hi Folks,

I test drove 40i and 50i a couple days ago. Conclusion - I would not changes my 35d E70 for 40i as (subjectively!) 35d feels more powerful. 50i was a different story. This was a monster and I really enjoyed the joy ride.

Then I asked a couple technical questions. I got the attached sheet from the sales guy. What surprised me is very low payload on 50i. Only 870 lbs? I noticed that the gross weight is 6,460 and curb weight is 5170 lbs. The payload should be 1,290 lbs.

Two 40i in the sheet are on 1246 lbs payload (7 seaters - rear air suspension?) and the other two are 849 lbs.

These are really low numbers IMO. E70 model was 1,100 lbs payload for all engine versions and a bit higher for version with air suspension.

Does anybody know why payload was significantly decreased on G05?

Thanks!

[mnx5er]

Isn't 565kg = 1245lb?

[bono]

It is... and?

Originally Posted by mnx5er

Isn't 565kg = 1245lb?

[mnx5er]

That is the number I saw on the spec sheet for the 50i, 565kg. Which I converted to pounds and that is exactly what you didn't ask! Whoops

The number for the 50i has to be a mistake. If you use the typical gross vehicle weight minus curb weight you get 585kg which would be 1289lb which makes sense. Something is up with that spec sheet.

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by mnx5er

That is the number I saw on the spec sheet for the 50i, 565kg. Which I converted to pounds and that is exactly what you didn't ask! Whoops

The number for the 50i has to be a mistake. If you use the typical gross vehicle weight minus curb weight you get 585kg which would be 1289lb which makes sense. Something is up with that spec sheet.

2 Axle Air Suspension Vs Single Rear Axle Air.

Since you're towing a large and heavy trailer often, you're better off with a Discovery TD6. The ZF8HP needs a Low-Range transfer case to start off from a standstill at combined load weights as high as yours.

[bono]

Can you explain what you mean when saying "2 Axle Air Suspension Vs Single Rear Axle Air."? Single rear axle air has 870 lbs payload and 2 axle air has higher?

Re Discovery TD6 - unfortunately, this is not something I would like to drive. I believe in German engineering

"ZF8HP needs a Low-Range transfer case to start off from a standstill" - so G05 does not have proper transmission / transfer case to tow 7,000 lbs trailer?

Originally Posted by lemetier

2 Axle Air Suspension Vs Single Rear Axle Air.

Since you're towing a large and heavy trailer often, you're better off with a Discovery TD6. The ZF8HP needs a Low-Range transfer case to start off from a standstill at combined load weights as high as yours.

[AndroidRobot]

Originally Posted by bono

Can you explain what you mean when saying "2 Axle Air Suspension Vs Single Rear Axle Air."? Single rear axle air has 870 lbs payload and 2 axle air has higher?

Re Discovery TD6 - unfortunately, this is not something I would like to drive. I believe in German engineering

"ZF8HP needs a Low-Range transfer case to start off from a standstill" - so G05 does not have proper transmission / transfer case to tow 7,000 lbs trailer?

There is definitely not low range transfer case on this car. I believe the payloads are wrong based on what it says. The tires can handle much higher loads so that's not the limiting factor

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by bono

Can you explain what you mean when saying "2 Axle Air Suspension Vs Single Rear Axle Air."? Single rear axle air has 870 lbs payload and 2 axle air has higher?

Re Discovery TD6 - unfortunately, this is not something I would like to drive. I believe in German engineering

"ZF8HP needs a Low-Range transfer case to start off from a standstill" - so G05 does not have proper transmission / transfer case to tow 7,000 lbs trailer?

2 Axle Air Suspension has a higher payload capacity due to active f/r axle load distribution. It's included with the 7 seat option hence the difference between the 3 40i you mentioned.

On the transmission side, it's not that it doesn't have a proper unit for towing, rather it's the way it operates from a standstill. It will roll backwards and put significant wear on the internal Trans Brake B if you're not paying attention and don't take proactive steps.

The G05 has these limits:

Towing above 4500lbs, when starting off on an incline, place gear selector to manual mode and select 1st gear. Pull parking brake switch to fully activate and release (Auto Hold Hill Start Assist is not sufficient). Upon application of accelerator, brakes will hold until the transmission has closed brake set B and will fully engage the Torque Converter lockup clutch immediately once forward motion is achieved.

Up to GVWR and 5500lb trailer load - 8% incline for standing start, 12% incline while in motion.

GVWR and 5501 - 6800lb trailer load - 5% incline for standing start, 8% incline while in motion.

GVWR and trailer load 6801lb - 7200lb - Incline start not recommended, 8% incline while in motion in conjunction with driver use of transmission manual mode for appropriate application of gear.

Only suggested the Disco because it is the most capable of the European SUV's at 8201lbs towing capacity. It comes with a Class V hitch standard (as does full size Range Rover when factory fitted) so up to 990lbs tongue weight if you don't load the back and stay within the rear GAWR limit.

[bono]

Lemetier, thanks!

How to recognize that 7 seater has 2 Axle Air Suspension? Is this is standard for 7 seater G05? With the previous X5 it was only rear air axle (obviously there was no 2 axle option).

May I ask where did you take those details around towing with G05? Interesting stuff. By the way, do you know, if BMW prepared any language around using weight distribution hitch with G05?

[brad850csi]

Originally Posted by lemetier

2 Axle Air Suspension has a higher payload capacity due to active f/r axle load distribution. It's included with the 7 seat option hence the difference between the 3 40i you mentioned.

On the transmission side, it's not that it doesn't have a proper unit for towing, rather it's the way it operates from a standstill. It will roll backwards and put significant wear on the internal Trans Brake B if you're not paying attention and don't take proactive steps.

The G05 has these limits:

Towing above 4500lbs, when starting off on an incline, place gear selector to manual mode and select 1st gear. Pull parking brake switch to fully activate and release (Auto Hold Hill Start Assist is not sufficient). Upon application of accelerator, brakes will hold until the transmission has closed brake set B and will fully engage the Torque Converter lockup clutch immediately once forward motion is achieved.

Up to GVWR and 5500lb trailer load - 8% incline for standing start, 12% incline while in motion.

GVWR and 5501 - 6800lb trailer load - 5% incline for standing start, 8% incline while in motion.

GVWR and trailer load 6801lb - 7200lb - Incline start not recommended, 8% incline while in motion in conjunction with driver use of transmission manual mode for appropriate application of gear.

Only suggested the Disco because it is the most capable of the European SUV's at 8201lbs towing capacity. It comes with a Class V hitch standard (as does full size Range Rover when factory fitted) so up to 990lbs tongue weight if you don't load the back and stay within the rear GAWR limit.

Is quite a bit of this related to the 8HP setting off in 2nd whenever it can?

The 40i has a slightly shorter first gear and final drive, 5.25 and 3.39 vs the 50i at 5.00 and 3.15. Would this mean that if the brake set B is the same on the 8HP51 and 8HP76 that the 40i would actually be a better option for heavy towing?

[lemetier]

Originally Posted by bono

Lemetier, thanks!

How to recognize that 7 seater has 2 Axle Air Suspension? Is this is standard for 7 seater G05? With the previous X5 it was only rear air axle (obviously there was no 2 axle option).

May I ask where did you take those details around towing with G05? Interesting stuff. By the way, do you know, if BMW prepared any language around using weight distribution hitch with G05?

All 7 Seat G05 have 2 Axle Air.

The details (some of which are incorrect on my part) are compiled from the different sources available.

First mistake: 4409lbs is the initial limiting point (I incorrectly rounded up to 4500 from 4490).

Second Mistake: Max Towing Capacity 7200lbs with factory installation; 6800lbs with after-sales accessory installation. Factory install upgrades the rear air springs along with modifications to engine/drivetrain cooling.

The grade limits are dependent on specific vehicle weight, trailer weight, and presence of electronic trailer brake module.

Maximum towing ability spec for all G05 would be (I think via calculation), xLine 5 Seat with factory installed hitch, Offroad Package, and no spare combo. That still puts you extremely close if not over the limit with your trailer specs.

Weight distribution hitch use is discouraged and doesn't change the max combination loads. E53 had 2 Axle as an option or standard on certain models and I've seen 3 oscillate vertically to the point of lifting the rear off the ground after coming to a stop.

Originally Posted by brad850csi

Is quite a bit of this related to the 8HP setting off in 2nd whenever it can?

The 40i has a slightly shorter first gear and final drive, 5.25 and 3.39 vs the 50i at 5.00 and 3.15. Would this mean that if the brake set B is the same on the 8HP51 and 8HP76 that the 40i would actually be a better option for heavy towing?

Not really anything to do with the D1/D2 as the Trailer Module detects when something is plugged into it automatically. It's that Brake Set B opens 100% when stationary and both gear 1 and 2 use Brake Set A and B closed. Upon brake release, it closes 30%, then 70% upon initial accelerator application before going to 100% closed. Rolling backwards with the trans output partially engaged is a problem if you're not conscious about it. Hill Start only works for 1.5 sec after brake pedal release (not enough time to get a heavy loaded rig moving forward on an incline).

[bono]

Thank you for your responses!

I am disappointed with the specs. I still cannot believe that 50i has only 870 lbs payload. Let's imagine four dudes who want to go skiing. Their ski gear would need to be couriered to the ski resort, as 4 big guys may weight more than 870 lbs. All E70 had 1,100 lbs payload...

Also re towing capacity - all E70 had 7,700 lbs towing capacity. Only in the US the towing rating was lowered to 6,000 lbs. Current 7,200 lbs towing capacity may appear to be an upgrade, but in fact it is downgrade. Also the tongue weight limit was 600 lbs for E70, now it is 551 lbs.

As long as I like G05 design, I do not see any sense paying >$90k for what appears to be less capable car for towing than E70 (and most of other German SUVs).

Thanks again for your input!

Originally Posted by lemetier

(...)

Maximum towing ability spec for all G05 would be (I think via calculation), xLine 5 Seat with factory installed hitch, Offroad Package, and no spare combo. That still puts you extremely close if not over the limit with your trailer specs.

Weight distribution hitch use is discouraged and doesn't change the max combination loads. (...)

[drilling]

Is 870lbs even accurate? I checked bmw germany website and it says payload is 575kg which is ~1200 lbs.

[bono]

1200 lbs makes much more sense. 870 lbs comes from the document that i provided earlier, obtained from the dealer.

Originally Posted by drilling

Is 870lbs even accurate? I checked bmw germany website and it says payload is 575kg which is ~1200 lbs.

[drilling]

Originally Posted by bono

1200 lbs makes much more sense. 870 lbs comes from the document that i provided earlier, obtained from the dealer.

Hi bud, I've been following some of the posts you wrote.

Yeah I just spoke to my Canadian dealer and he said 1350lbs from spec sheet. No way it's 870lbs. That's like 3 fat dudes and car can't move. I've been contemplating to use the car as my towing vehicle so glad to hear that it has payload of 1350lbs (I got air suspension).

[bono]

Yeah, the sticker may be generic and say 1,100 or 1,200 as it was with the other X5 models, but payload can be calculated in another way.

Could someone with G05 check what the sticker by the driver door states in terms of the payload?

[drilling]

Originally Posted by bono

Yeah, the sticker may be generic and say 1,100 or 1,200 as it was with the other X5 models, but payload can be calculated in another way.

Could someone with G05 check what the sticker by the driver door states in terms of the payload?

It'd be awesome if there is a solid data on payload of G05.

[MystroX5]

Originally Posted by drilling

It'd be awesome if there is a solid data on payload of G05.

Jeep was the same way as their own web site never had correct data. Worse yet, it would vary all the time for years as if no one did any fact checking.

[drilling]

OK! I think I finally see what's going on.


Payload for X5 with regular suspension is 849lbs

Payload for X5 with 2 axel air suspension is ~1300lbs.

If you choose 3rd row option on config, the sytsem automatically selects 2 axel air suspension. Thus, car needs 2 axel suspension for increased payload. Thank god I got air suspension.

[bono]

Still 849 lbs for regular suspension is crazy low and I do not understand why BMW publishes such low number, even though from the calculation (gross weight - curb weight) the payload is much higher.

[drilling]

Originally Posted by bono

Still 849 lbs for regular suspension is crazy low and I do not understand why BMW publishes such low number, even though from the calculation (gross weight - curb weight) the payload is much higher.

I have no idea but do you think maybe the wheel is large and thus it touches the wheel arch with just 849lbs? I am pretty sure the chassis can take more. I really have no idea with 849lbs.

[bono]

I do not think that the wheel size matters. The wheel should fit into the arch even if the rear suspension rides on the stoppers.