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      06-16-2021, 05:46 AM   #1
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Testing of BMW i Hydrogen NEXT X5 Begins

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Testing of BMW i Hydrogen NEXT X5 With Hydrogen Fuel Cell Drive Train Begins
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June 16, 2021

Munich. The BMW Group is beginning to test near-standard vehicles with a hydrogen fuel cell drive train in everyday conditions on European roads. Prototypes of the BMW i Hydrogen NEXT will examine how effectively the CO2-free drive train, model-specific chassis technology and vehicle electronics systems work together under real-life conditions. The BMW i Hydrogen NEXT is a pure electric vehicle that uses hydrogen as fuel by converting it into electricity in a fuel cell. The recently launched testing programme will pave the way for the BMW Group to present a small-series model with this sustainable drive technology, developed on the basis of the BMW X5, in late 2022. Extensive field testing of these vehicles will provide practical experience in the use of this sustainable drive technology.

Hydrogen fuel cell technology has the long-term potential to supplement internal combustion engines, plug-in hybrid systems and battery-electric vehicles within the BMW Group’s flexible drive train strategy. It could become an attractive alternative to battery-electric drive trains – especially for customers who do not have their own access to electric charging infrastructure or who frequently drive long distances. “Hydrogen fuel cell technology can be an attractive option for sustainable drive trains – especially in larger vehicle classes,” according to Frank Weber, member of the Board of Management of BMW AG responsible for Development. “That is why road testing of near-standard vehicles with a hydrogen fuel cell drive train is an important milestone in our research and development efforts.”

Like the fuel tank of a conventional combustion-engine model, the hydrogen tank of the BMW i Hydrogen NEXT can also be filled within three to four minutes with a fuel that ensures a range of several hundred kilometres in all weather conditions.

Field testing focused on efficiency, safety, convenience, reliability – and driving pleasure.

A central element of the BMW i Hydrogen NEXT road tests now underway is fine-tuning the software that controls all driving and operating functions. The fuel cell system, hydrogen tanks, performance buffer battery and central vehicle control unit have all previously been tested individually and together in hundreds of test runs conducted on test benches. This functional testing is now being followed with field testing on the roads. The intensive programme, which is conducted under everyday conditions, with thousands of kilometres driven in real traffic situations, helps development engineers validate the efficiency, safety, convenience and reliability of all components. At the same time, the test series is designed to ensure the characteristic driving pleasure of BMW models – even with locally emission-free mobility using pioneering hydrogen fuel cell technology.

The BMW i Hydrogen NEXT uses fuel cells from the product development cooperation with the Toyota Motor Corporation. The individual cells come from Toyota, while the fuel cell stack and complete drive system are original BMW Group developments. The cooperation established in 2013 seeks to optimise the everyday practicality and scalability of hydrogen fuel cell technology for use in each company’s respective production vehicles through the intensive exchange of experience.

Typical BMW driving dynamics delivered by electric drive train with system output of 275 kW/374 hp.

The complete drive system in the BMW i Hydrogen NEXT combines hydrogen fuel cell technology with fifth-generation BMW eDrive technology – which can already be experienced in the BMW iX3 and soon the BMW iX and BMW i4, as well. Energy is generated in the fuel cell as the result of a chemical reaction between the hydrogen carried by the vehicle and oxygen from the air. This delivers an electrical output of 125 kW/170 hp. An electric converter located below the fuel cell adjusts its voltage to that of the electric motor, which powers the BMW i Hydrogen NEXT.

Energy stored in a performance buffer battery is also used for dynamic acceleration manoeuvres and short bursts of speed for overtaking. As a result, the system delivers an output of 275 kW/374 hp that corresponds exactly to that of the most powerful six-cylinder in-line petrol engine currently used in BMW models – thereby guaranteeing the driving dynamics the brand is known for.

The energy stored in the performance buffer battery is generated in a particularly efficient way during driving by recovering energy from coasting overrun and braking phases. The hydrogen needed to supply the fuel cell is stored in two 700-bar tanks made of carbon-fibre reinforced plastic (CFRP), which together hold six kilograms of hydrogen. Its precisely controlled reaction with oxygen in the fuel cell generates electricity, while water vapour is the only emission produced by the drive train.

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      06-16-2021, 06:09 AM   #2
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Curious how sustainable and clean Hydrogen is and any possible effects on global warming if every vehicle on earth starts releasing water vapor?
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      06-16-2021, 06:29 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
Curious how sustainable and clean Hydrogen is and any possible effects on global warming if every vehicle on earth starts releasing water vapor?
Every ICE vehicle already releases water vapor, among other things :-) Producing hydrogen requires lots of energy and the fuel cells have low efficiency (40-60%), so it's not a perfect solution. Not to mention that hydrogen can cause huge explosions.. EV's are the way to go, IMO.
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      06-16-2021, 07:01 AM   #4
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Now, that's the kind of non-EV better-than-EV I'm looking forward to
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      06-16-2021, 07:09 AM   #5
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I remember seeing the hydrogen E65 7er in the Munich museum ages ago.
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      06-16-2021, 07:17 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
Curious how sustainable and clean Hydrogen is and any possible effects on global warming if every vehicle on earth starts releasing water vapor?
Every internal combustion vehicle emits water vapor.
The scientific community is also not in agreement on the "global warming" issue. Many in that arena never got on the band wagon and others who did are now highly skeptical or no longer agree with all the hype that is being exploited to advance various political agendas.
Fossil fuels are going to be used in great volumes for the foreseeable future whether the environmental freaks are able to comprehend why or not. This war on fossil fuels is the stupidest thing I have seen in my lifetime as we essentially retreat into a pre industrial era not much better than the stone age in their absence. Our world or anything remotely similar does not exist without coal, natural gas and oil.
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      06-16-2021, 08:03 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
Curious how sustainable and clean Hydrogen is and any possible effects on global warming if every vehicle on earth starts releasing water vapor?
Every internal combustion vehicle emits water vapor.
The scientific community is also not in agreement on the "global warming" issue. Many in that arena never got on the band wagon and others who did are now highly skeptical or no longer agree with all the hype that is being exploited to advance various political agendas.
Fossil fuels are going to be used in great volumes for the foreseeable future whether the environmental freaks are able to comprehend why or not. This war on fossil fuels is the stupidest thing I have seen in my lifetime as we essentially retreat into a pre industrial era not much better than the stone age in their absence. Our world or anything remotely similar does not exist without coal, natural gas and oil.
No….just, no.

The official term, in general, is referred to as climate change.

And it isn't a war on fossil fuels/oil/coal necessarily, it's a war on spewing pollutants in to the dirt we walk on, air we breathe and water we drink.

If there were a healthier, more efficient and cleaner way to do things for future generations why not investigate that? Why not strive to push the envelope? Isn't that what we (humans) essentially did to kick off the Industrial Revolution?

p.s. I'm genuinely asking by the way as i'm no history major…
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      06-16-2021, 08:17 AM   #8
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"i Hydrogen NEXT can also be filled within three to four minutes with a fuel that ensures a range of several hundred kilometres in all weather conditions."

Depending on if hydrogen is more environmentally detrimental than lithium, this actually may be the future.

The real question is, where's all the comparative data surrounding climate change in relation to the automotive industry? How do we know which of the powertrain evils are the least evil?
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      06-16-2021, 08:25 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
Curious how sustainable and clean Hydrogen is and any possible effects on global warming if every vehicle on earth starts releasing water vapor?
Every internal combustion vehicle emits water vapor.
The scientific community is also not in agreement on the "global warming" issue. Many in that arena never got on the band wagon and others who did are now highly skeptical or no longer agree with all the hype that is being exploited to advance various political agendas.
Fossil fuels are going to be used in great volumes for the foreseeable future whether the environmental freaks are able to comprehend why or not. This war on fossil fuels is the stupidest thing I have seen in my lifetime as we essentially retreat into a pre industrial era not much better than the stone age in their absence. Our world or anything remotely similar does not exist without coal, natural gas and oil.
this guy … fossil fuels are going nowhere. The Oil & gas industry will just continue to evolve, get better, cleaner, more efficient.

Quote:
Originally Posted by biterror View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
Curious how sustainable and clean Hydrogen is and any possible effects on global warming if every vehicle on earth starts releasing water vapor?
Every ICE vehicle already releases water vapor, among other things :-) Producing hydrogen requires lots of energy and the fuel cells have low efficiency (40-60%), so it's not a perfect solution. Not to mention that hydrogen can cause huge explosions.. EV's are the way to go, IMO.
… they aren't using deuterium and tritium in the fuel cells : maybe do some research on what has caused the huge explosions at hydrogen plants.
Until I see battery powered heavy machinery mining the materials required to make your EVs, a reusable (and non-existent) material to make the batteries, and "green" energy to charge your batteries… your argument is just as redundant as every other green snowflake.
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      06-16-2021, 08:26 AM   #10
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Not gonna lie I have been waiting for this kind of news after they released that X5 Hydrogen concept car couple years ago.
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      06-16-2021, 08:44 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by SFBavarianArea View Post
No….just, no.

The official term, in general, is referred to as climate change.

And it isn't a war on fossil fuels/oil/coal necessarily, it's a war on spewing pollutants in to the dirt we walk on, air we breathe and water we drink.

If there were a healthier, more efficient and cleaner way to do things for future generations why not investigate that? Why not strive to push the envelope? Isn't that what we (humans) essentially did to kick off the Industrial Revolution?

p.s. I'm genuinely asking by the way as i'm no history major…
"Climate change" indeed. Sounds painfully reminiscent of the impending Ice Age that was rapidly approaching or so the Liberals of the '70s claimed. What ever happened to all of that BS?
Oh well, Green New Deal will save the day and show us the way. India, China, and Co. will surely be on board with all that nonsense.

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      06-16-2021, 08:52 AM   #12
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Here in the UK, over 75% of homes and domestic water is heated by gas. Even in the middle of summer I heat the water with gas as this keeps the boiler and pumps serviceable, and only needs to run for 15 mins each morning and evening to supply all the hot water for the family. A typical natural gas boiler is about 30" x 10" x 20" (and some are much smaller). Most places have now got relatively new gas distribution piping. Every so often, someone does something stupid and there's a gas explosion that kills a couple of people, but fewer people die from gas explosions than from electrocution each year (by a long way). Everyone is used to the odd accident.

Two towns are currently test-beds for replacing gas with hydrogen boilers, as the safety spec' for the distribution network of pipes, storage etc. is no different, apparently. All that needs replacing is the gas boiler: most of the existing distribution piping network remains in place. As does the existing wet heating radiator and hot water system in the home.

It helps that about 40 years ago, we switched from coal gas to natural gas, and this is within the memory of many people around today. This involved decommissioning of a load of infrastructure and from-scratch an all new replacement distribution network. So the idea of a natural to hydrogen switch just involving a domestic boiler replacement is no big deal by comparison.

The upside if all this is viable will be that homeowners with parking would be able to re-charge their car form their domestic H supply. Which would make it more competitive to electricity. For many people the decision will be a cost/benefit one, independent of whether H has better environmental credentials. On current estimates, H-based vehicles look viable and competitive in the UK, but that may only be because the cost of the distribution system will be written-off by a move to domestic hydrogen heating anyway. A lot will then depend on the basic cost of the powertrain technology of hydrogen vs electricity.

It'll be interesting to see if and how this progresses. Obviously, in countries without a tradition of gas domestic heating, the challenges to the viability of hydrogen-based transportation will be greater.
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      06-16-2021, 08:56 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguino View Post
Curious how sustainable and clean Hydrogen is and any possible effects on global warming if every vehicle on earth starts releasing water vapor?
Every internal combustion vehicle emits water vapor.
The scientific community is also not in agreement on the "global warming" issue. Many in that arena never got on the band wagon and others who did are now highly skeptical or no longer agree with all the hype that is being exploited to advance various political agendas.
Fossil fuels are going to be used in great volumes for the foreseeable future whether the environmental freaks are able to comprehend why or not. This war on fossil fuels is the stupidest thing I have seen in my lifetime as we essentially retreat into a pre industrial era not much better than the stone age in their absence. Our world or anything remotely similar does not exist without coal, natural gas and oil.
Care to cite the preponderance of "scientists" who are skeptical about climate change? Cuz thats news to me. Sounds like something you must've heard on OAN.
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      06-16-2021, 09:00 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msej449 View Post
Here in the UK, over 75% of homes and domestic water is heated by gas. Even in the middle of summer I heat the water with gas as this keeps the boiler and pumps serviceable, and only needs to run for 15 mins each morning and evening to supply all the hot water for the family. A typical natural gas boiler is about 30" x 10" x 20" (and some are much smaller). Most places have now got relatively new gas distribution piping. Every so often, someone does something stupid and there's a gas explosion that kills a couple of people, but fewer people die from gas explosions than from electrocution each year (by a long way). Everyone is used to the odd accident.

Two towns are currently test-beds for replacing gas with hydrogen boilers, as the safety spec' for the distribution network is of pipes, storage etc. is no different, apparently. S all that needs replacing is the gas boiler. The rest of the wet heating radiator and hot water system remains in place.

It helps that about 40 years ago, we switched from coal gas to natural gas, and this is within the memory of many people around today. So the idea of a natural to hydrogen switch is probably more acceptable.

The upside if all this is viable will be that homeowners with parking would be able to re-charge their car form their domestic H supply. Which would make it more competitive to electricity.

It'll be interesting to see if and how this progresses. Obviously, in countries without a tradition of gas domestic heating, the challenges will be greater.
The US has a natural gas reserve that is overwhelming to the point of being inconceivable with much yet to be discovered. Unfortunately our current President is on a mission to end all of that. Mindless stupidity.
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      06-16-2021, 09:08 AM   #15
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Care to cite the preponderance of "scientists" who are skeptical about climate change? Cuz thats news to me. Sounds like something you must've heard on OAN.
I'll bet Google works on your computer also.
You are living in a Liberal fantasy land if you believe that the scientific community is in universal agreement on this highly debatable idea.
Good to know however that the threat of another Ice Age the environmental hacks warned about a few decades ago has obviously passed. Amazing how quickly things can change in Liberal Yo Yo Land.
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      06-16-2021, 09:12 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmack123 View Post
Care to cite the preponderance of "scientists" who are skeptical about climate change? Cuz thats news to me. Sounds like something you must've heard on OAN.
I'll bet Google works on your side of the pond also.
You are living in a Liberal fantasy land if you believe that the scientific community is in universal agreement on this highly debatable idea.
Good to know however that the threat of another Ice Age that the environmental hacks barked a few decades ago has obviously passed. Amazing how quickly things can change in Liberal Yo Yo Land.
Haha. Exactly as I thought, stated a (BS) claim (this is a claim you made, not me) and can't back it up with evidence, because of course your assertion is utter nonsense. Here you go bucko. From NASA (or is NASA now a "liberal" rag?):
"Multiple studies published in peer-reviewed scientific journals1 show that 97 percent or more of actively publishing climate scientists agree*: Climate-warming trends over the past century are extremely likely due to human activities"

https://www.google.com/amp/s/climate...-consensus.amp

Google sure does work on this side of the pond ay?
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      06-16-2021, 09:18 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFBavarianArea View Post
No….just, no.

The official term, in general, is referred to as climate change.

And it isn't a war on fossil fuels/oil/coal necessarily, it's a war on spewing pollutants in to the dirt we walk on, air we breathe and water we drink.

If there were a healthier, more efficient and cleaner way to do things for future generations why not investigate that? Why not strive to push the envelope? Isn't that what we (humans) essentially did to kick off the Industrial Revolution?

p.s. I'm genuinely asking by the way as i'm no history major…
"Climate change" indeed. Sounds painfully reminiscent of the impending Ice Age that was rapidly approaching or so the Liberals of the '70s claimed. What ever happened to all of that BS?
Oh well, Green New Deal will save the day and show us the way. India, China, and Co. will surely be on board with all that nonsense.
Ok but nothing in my reply was overtly or inadvertently political so there's no need for the liberal this-liberal that.

Though no excuse, I wasn't around in the 70's and never heard of the "ice age" stuff but will look into it.

…meanwhile Nebraska's expecting a high of 108 degrees Fahrenheit
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      06-16-2021, 09:19 AM   #18
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Haha. Exactly as I thought, stated a (BS) claim (this is a claim you made, not me) and can't back it up with evidence, because of course your assertion is utter nonsense.
Classic, expectable response when Liberal ideals are questioned or god forbid disagreed with. Hilarious but absolutely to be expected.
Where is Al Gore when you need him?
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      06-16-2021, 09:20 AM   #19
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Every internal combustion vehicle emits water vapor.
The scientific community is also not in agreement on the "global warming" issue. Many in that arena never got on the band wagon and others who did are now highly skeptical or no longer agree with all the hype that is being exploited to advance various political agendas.
Fossil fuels are going to be used in great volumes for the foreseeable future whether the environmental freaks are able to comprehend why or not. This war on fossil fuels is the stupidest thing I have seen in my lifetime as we essentially retreat into a pre industrial era not much better than the stone age in their absence. Our world or anything remotely similar does not exist without coal, natural gas and oil.
I am not sure what your point is. How has increasing fuel efficiency and use of alternative energy made anything worse for anyone. You can call people 'environmental freaks', but I doubt you'll buy a house or live next to a toxic dump.

No country or industry has gone backwards, quality of life diminished because they adopted less polluting or cleaner technology or made their engines more efficient. That is just progress. FWIW, people hated all types of progress but clean energy, EV (debatable about how clean they are in effect) all are part of progress...

Maybe you were just ranting, so missed your point...BMW is investing in this because they feel it helps their business. End of story. No one is forcing them.
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      06-16-2021, 09:21 AM   #20
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Haha. Exactly as I thought, stated a (BS) claim (this is a claim you made, not me) and can't back it up with evidence, because of course your assertion is utter nonsense.
Classic, expectable response when Liberal ideals are questioned or god forbid disagreed with. Hilarious but absolutely to be expected.
Where is Al Gore when you need him?
Care to respond to the evidence from NASA that I posted? Or respond with facts of your own? Thats right you are the "feelings" over facts crowd huh? Hahaha. You must be big into participation trophies too? Tell you what, when you have some facts instead of your expert non-liberal instincts, please let me know.
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      06-16-2021, 09:23 AM   #21
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Classic, expectable response when Liberal ideals are questioned or god forbid disagreed with. Hilarious but absolutely to be expected.
Where is Al Gore when you need him?
So facts are liberal ideas now. WOW! What are you?
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      06-16-2021, 09:25 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by speedyman View Post
Classic, expectable response when Liberal ideals are questioned or god forbid disagreed with. Hilarious but absolutely to be expected.
Where is Al Gore when you need him?
So facts are liberal ideas now. WOW! What are you?
Its a Russian Bot 👀
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