Don't buy an M4 over MSRP

AdipopM · 03-22-2022, 08:37 PM

I find the level of transparency on car pricing extremely frustrating. Transparency on pricing is poor under normal circumstances but in this supply constrained environment, things are much much worse.

Some dealerships have the audacity to ask for $25k above MSRP on an inventory BMW M4 convertible that hasn't shipped from Bremerhaven yet. On the other hand, other dealerships are selling a coupe on the ship, at MSRP or something small above e.g. +$1-2K.

Many dealerships with these ridiculous mark ups are counting on the fact that they can successfully convince some dude with a high money/knowledge ratio that the market is so bad right now that these cars will be unavailable soon. When they move from $25k -> $10k this customer will be besides themselves with the great deal they got and just buy the car.

I wanted to share my learnings from 50+ calls with dealers, multiple showroom visits, long trips to LA and finally settling on a car for a reasonable price.

In general: M3 >>>>> M4 Coupe >>>> M4 Convertible in terms of demand and is proportional to how much on top of MSRP the dealers are asking and, more importantly, getting.

For a G82 in inventory, I would say 0-3k above MSRP is par.
For a G83 in inventory, I would say 0-3K below MSRP is par.

For a G80 in inventory - I would estimate somewhere between 5-7k above MSRP is par but I am not sure since I wasn't looking for an M3 and I don't know the market as well.

The evidence suggests that the market is becoming significantly better. There are now nearly 40 unsold M4s in SoCal that are publicly visible on bmwusa.com and are in transit to the dealership.

On top of that, a ton of people actually cancel their orders when the car comes closer to delivery. So there are a whole bunch of cars that you won't easily see unless you call the dealer and ask them. So - call the dealer, ask to speak to the Sales Manager or someone who sounds like they are familiar with the inventory and ask them if there are cancelled orders which are coming in soon. I promise you, it works more often than it doesn't.

Then, a lot of dealers are flexible, they will publicly state they are looking for $10-15k above, but will negotiate down to $5k easily. Some dealers will just tell you they aren't looking to go over MSRP.

Looking for cars that haven't reached the dealership yet is the best strategy because while it's easier for them to sell these cars once they are physically in the dealership, money now is always better than money later. Cars that are predicted to reach Oxnard in 1-2 weeks without a stop sale are the sweet spot.

In order to avoid asking you to pay over MSRP, the dealers are often speccing the cars like crazy - adding unusual special colors, bits of custom carbon that not everyone would want and things like M Drive Pro. It means that some MSRPs are 100-105K+. One dealer asked me to pay $130,000 for an M4 the other day because they added $25k to the base price. This is more expensive than a 911 C4S. The point im making is that if a car already has a lot of very expensive additions that hardly anyone would want, feel free to point that out.

I hope that helps and happy to answer any questions

Mowe · 03-22-2022, 10:10 PM

I ordered a G82 in November and got 3% odd MSRP.

sleepy floyd · 03-24-2022, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mowe

I ordered a G82 in November and got 3% odd MSRP.

Yeah, but you're not in California :-).

I found 2 dealers (fairly easily) in the area that would allow me to order @ MSRP. Made sure to get the OTD price before placing my order to insure no crazy fees. OP is correct, these things are so easy to spec through the roof. I only ordered what I thought was worthwhile for G82 XDrive, MSRP of $83k.

zioziozio · 03-24-2022, 05:32 PM

Is it just me or is the sedan better looking?

Mowe · 03-24-2022, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zioziozio

Is it just me or is the sedan better looking?

Just you 😘

chicagoguy0822 · 03-24-2022, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdipopM

I find the level of transparency on car pricing extremely frustrating. Transparency on pricing is poor under normal circumstances but in this supply constrained environment, things are much much worse.

Some dealerships have the audacity to ask for $25k above MSRP on an inventory BMW M4 convertible that hasn't shipped from Bremerhaven yet. On the other hand, other dealerships are selling a coupe on the ship, at MSRP or something small above e.g. +$1-2K.

Many dealerships with these ridiculous mark ups are counting on the fact that they can successfully convince some dude with a high money/knowledge ratio that the market is so bad right now that these cars will be unavailable soon. When they move from $25k -> $10k this customer will be besides themselves with the great deal they got and just buy the car.

I wanted to share my learnings from 50+ calls with dealers, multiple showroom visits, long trips to LA and finally settling on a car for a reasonable price.

In general: M3 >>>>> M4 Coupe >>>> M4 Convertible in terms of demand and is proportional to how much on top of MSRP the dealers are asking and, more importantly, getting.

For a G82 in inventory, I would say 0-3k above MSRP is par.
For a G83 in inventory, I would say 0-3K below MSRP is par.

For a G80 in inventory - I would estimate somewhere between 5-7k above MSRP is par but I am not sure since I wasn't looking for an M3 and I don't know the market as well.

The evidence suggests that the market is becoming significantly better. There are now nearly 40 unsold M4s in SoCal that are publicly visible on bmwusa.com and are in transit to the dealership.

On top of that, a ton of people actually cancel their orders when the car comes closer to delivery. So there are a whole bunch of cars that you won't easily see unless you call the dealer and ask them. So - call the dealer, ask to speak to the Sales Manager or someone who sounds like they are familiar with the inventory and ask them if there are cancelled orders which are coming in soon. I promise you, it works more often than it doesn't.

Then, a lot of dealers are flexible, they will publicly state they are looking for $10-15k above, but will negotiate down to $5k easily. Some dealers will just tell you they aren't looking to go over MSRP.

Looking for cars that haven't reached the dealership yet is the best strategy because while it's easier for them to sell these cars once they are physically in the dealership, money now is always better than money later. Cars that are predicted to reach Oxnard in 1-2 weeks without a stop sale are the sweet spot.

In order to avoid asking you to pay over MSRP, the dealers are often speccing the cars like crazy - adding unusual special colors, bits of custom carbon that not everyone would want and things like M Drive Pro. It means that some MSRPs are 100-105K+. One dealer asked me to pay $130,000 for an M4 the other day because they added $25k to the base price. This is more expensive than a 911 C4S. The point im making is that if a car already has a lot of very expensive additions that hardly anyone would want, feel free to point that out.

I hope that helps and happy to answer any questions

Good advice, but many dealers list cars already sold (like my G83 that is on a boat) as inventory to draw traffic to the dealership. I even reached out to another dealer at one point to check on a car they had in stock and they said "sorry... that car is sold... can we interest you in another." I would not assume any cars that are stated as "in stock" or "in transit" as being available to customers.

AdipopM · 03-24-2022, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mowe

I ordered a G82 in November and got 3% odd MSRP.

That's an order though, my estimates are for inventory eg. <4 wks delivery ish.

AdipopM · 03-24-2022, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chicagoguy0822

Good advice, but many dealers list cars already sold (like my G83 that is on a boat) as inventory to draw traffic to the dealership. I even reached out to another dealer at one point to check on a car they had in stock and they said "sorry... that car is sold... can we interest you in another." I would not assume any cars that are stated as "in stock" or "in transit" as being available to customers.

It depends on which source you use to check. In general, most of the dealer websites tend to show a lot of sold cars. BMW USA tends to have mostly unsold cars with a few sold ones and they generally go away in a few days once they're sold. That's been my experience anyway.

chicagoguy0822 · 03-25-2022, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdipopM

It depends on which source you use to check. In general, most of the dealer websites tend to show a lot of sold cars. BMW USA tends to have mostly unsold cars with a few sold ones and they generally go away in a few days once they're sold. That's been my experience anyway.

Good to know. I was a little put off when I saw my VIN on the dealer website!

zioziozio · 03-25-2022, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mowe

Just you 😘

The front isn't the issue. It's the very un-BMW like rear quarter which resembles a Mustang.

Dave07997S · 04-02-2022, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zioziozio

The front isn't the issue. It's the very un-BMW like rear quarter which resembles a Mustang.

Thats not a bad thing actually. Also the 8 series looks a lot like a Mustang. I love my Mustang, but looking to get back into an M.

Dave07997S · 04-02-2022, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mowe

Just you 😘

Wow, love that color...

kiw1 · 05-17-2022, 07:28 PM

I called 8 dealers in Socal and all estimates for inventory < 4 weeks were 10-25. I picked mine up for 10 over and don't regret it.

kDot17 · 05-18-2022, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiw1

I called 8 dealers in Socal and all estimates for inventory < 4 weeks were 10-25. I picked mine up for 10 over and don't regret it.

I ordered mine in September from Beverly Hills and they told me MSRP. Mine finally came in last weekend and they still honored MSRP. Before I got my allocation I was on 3 different dealers' waiting lists and they all had me at MSRP..

kiw1 · 05-18-2022, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kDot17

I ordered mine in September from Beverly Hills and they told me MSRP. Mine finally came in last weekend and they still honored MSRP. Before I got my allocation I was on 3 different dealers' waiting lists and they all had me at MSRP..

Makes sense, but I don't think these deals (atleast from my experience) are possible in SOCAL right now for cars which are either on the lot or a couple of weeks out like mine. I guess I need to learn to be more patient

kDot17 · 05-18-2022, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiw1

Quote:

Originally Posted by kDot17

I ordered mine in September from Beverly Hills and they told me MSRP. Mine finally came in last weekend and they still honored MSRP. Before I got my allocation I was on 3 different dealers' waiting lists and they all had me at MSRP..

Makes sense, but I don't think these deals (atleast from my experience) are possible in SOCAL right now for cars which are either on the lot or a couple of weeks out like mine. I guess I need to learn to be more patient

I truly learned a lot about patience while waiting for my car. I got allocated Sep 2nd for a week 40 build, ended up getting delayed 3-4 times to week 10 lol

kiw1 · 05-18-2022, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kDot17

I truly learned a lot about patience while waiting for my car. I got allocated Sep 2nd for a week 40 build, ended up getting delayed 3-4 times to week 10 lol

That's what I was concerned about. I'm not sure if I was being bsed but one dealer told me that order - delivery at the moment was estimated at +6 months and I didn't want to wait that long.

kDot17 · 05-18-2022, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiw1

Quote:

Originally Posted by kDot17

I truly learned a lot about patience while waiting for my car. I got allocated Sep 2nd for a week 40 build, ended up getting delayed 3-4 times to week 10 lol

That's what I was concerned about. I'm not sure if I was being bsed but one dealer told me that order - delivery at the moment was estimated at +6 months and I didn't want to wait that long.

When I took delivery, Beverly Hills told me everyone on their M3 waiting list right now will most likely be waiting a year. Next spring at the earliest apparently. However I believe the current situation is partially due to BMW stopping MY22 production and transitioning to MY23, of which order guides haven't even reached the dealerships yet (from what I can tell)

kiw1 · 05-18-2022, 05:03 PM

That makes sense

RPM33 · 05-18-2022, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepy floyd

Yeah, but you're not in California :-).

I found 2 dealers (fairly easily) in the area that would allow me to order @ MSRP. Made sure to get the OTD price before placing my order to insure no crazy fees. OP is correct, these things are so easy to spec through the roof. I only ordered what I thought was worthwhile for G82 XDrive, MSRP of $83k.

Sleepy Floyd is right again. Basically California residents have higher incomes so dealers charge them more dollars because the residents can pay more. This is noted on Rennlist for Porsche as well. I'm sure Ferrari is the same as well.

Limegrntaln · 05-18-2022, 06:18 PM

Ordered in July 2021, in NorCal. MSRP.

sleepy floyd · 05-19-2022, 12:35 PM

btw --- highly recommend East Bay BMW if you're looking in NorCal. No tricks, extra fees, etc...my rep made sure the car wasn't washed (my request as I was taking it in for ceramic/ppf), and when I went to pick it up there was a sign taped to the windshield "no front license plate holes", which i didn't even think to ask for. He told me they had made a trade with another dealer recently only to find out the other dealer had tacked on $7k of dealer accessories. He also filled the tank while I was signing paperwork. All around great experience.

03-22-2022, 08:37 PM	#1
AdipopM Private 88 Rep 57 Posts Drives: G80 M3 xDrive Join Date: Mar 2022 Location: CA iTrader: (0)	Don't buy an M4 over MSRP - some advice I find the level of transparency on car pricing extremely frustrating. Transparency on pricing is poor under normal circumstances but in this supply constrained environment, things are much much worse. Some dealerships have the audacity to ask for $25k above MSRP on an inventory BMW M4 convertible that hasn't shipped from Bremerhaven yet. On the other hand, other dealerships are selling a coupe on the ship, at MSRP or something small above e.g. +$1-2K. Many dealerships with these ridiculous mark ups are counting on the fact that they can successfully convince some dude with a high money/knowledge ratio that the market is so bad right now that these cars will be unavailable soon. When they move from $25k -> $10k this customer will be besides themselves with the great deal they got and just buy the car. I wanted to share my learnings from 50+ calls with dealers, multiple showroom visits, long trips to LA and finally settling on a car for a reasonable price. In general: M3 >>>>> M4 Coupe >>>> M4 Convertible in terms of demand and is proportional to how much on top of MSRP the dealers are asking and, more importantly, getting. For a G82 in inventory, I would say 0-3k above MSRP is par. For a G83 in inventory, I would say 0-3K below MSRP is par. For a G80 in inventory - I would estimate somewhere between 5-7k above MSRP is par but I am not sure since I wasn't looking for an M3 and I don't know the market as well. The evidence suggests that the market is becoming significantly better. There are now nearly 40 unsold M4s in SoCal that are publicly visible on bmwusa.com and are in transit to the dealership. On top of that, a ton of people actually cancel their orders when the car comes closer to delivery. So there are a whole bunch of cars that you won't easily see unless you call the dealer and ask them. So - call the dealer, ask to speak to the Sales Manager or someone who sounds like they are familiar with the inventory and ask them if there are cancelled orders which are coming in soon. I promise you, it works more often than it doesn't. Then, a lot of dealers are flexible, they will publicly state they are looking for $10-15k above, but will negotiate down to $5k easily. Some dealers will just tell you they aren't looking to go over MSRP. Looking for cars that haven't reached the dealership yet is the best strategy because while it's easier for them to sell these cars once they are physically in the dealership, money now is always better than money later. Cars that are predicted to reach Oxnard in 1-2 weeks without a stop sale are the sweet spot. In order to avoid asking you to pay over MSRP, the dealers are often speccing the cars like crazy - adding unusual special colors, bits of custom carbon that not everyone would want and things like M Drive Pro. It means that some MSRPs are 100-105K+. One dealer asked me to pay $130,000 for an M4 the other day because they added $25k to the base price. This is more expensive than a 911 C4S. The point im making is that if a car already has a lot of very expensive additions that hardly anyone would want, feel free to point that out. I hope that helps and happy to answer any questions Last edited by AdipopM; 03-22-2022 at 08:51 PM..
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03-22-2022, 10:10 PM	#2
Mowe Lieutenant 2456 Rep 541 Posts Drives: G82 Join Date: Nov 2021 Location: Georgia iTrader: (0) Garage List 2022 BMW M4 [10.00]	I ordered a G82 in November and got 3% odd MSRP. __________________ Instagram - _MOWE_
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03-24-2022, 05:32 PM	#4
zioziozio Private 92 Rep 63 Posts Drives: m550i Join Date: Feb 2022 Location: NorCal iTrader: (0)	Is it just me or is the sedan better looking?
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05-17-2022, 07:28 PM	#13
kiw1 Lieutenant 617 Rep 438 Posts Drives: 2022 M3 Comp xDrive Join Date: May 2022 Location: Mammoth Lakes, CA iTrader: (0)	I called 8 dealers in Socal and all estimates for inventory < 4 weeks were 10-25. I picked mine up for 10 over and don't regret it.
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05-18-2022, 05:03 PM	#19
kiw1 Lieutenant 617 Rep 438 Posts Drives: 2022 M3 Comp xDrive Join Date: May 2022 Location: Mammoth Lakes, CA iTrader: (0)	That makes sense
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05-18-2022, 06:18 PM	#21
Limegrntaln Major General 13472 Rep 6,962 Posts Drives: 2022 DG/BLk xDrive M4C Wk 34 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Sacramento Area iTrader: (3) Garage List 2022 G82 M4 Competi ... [9.23]	Ordered in July 2021, in NorCal. MSRP. __________________ 2022 DravitGrau /Black Full Merino M4 Competition M xDrive / Production Week 34/ Delivered 10/19/21/ IG: dravit_m4_comp YT: G Dubyou
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05-19-2022, 12:35 PM	#22
sleepy floyd Private First Class 197 Rep 172 Posts Drives: 1974 Ford Bronco, 2022 M4 Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Walnut Creek, CA iTrader: (0)	btw --- highly recommend East Bay BMW if you're looking in NorCal. No tricks, extra fees, etc...my rep made sure the car wasn't washed (my request as I was taking it in for ceramic/ppf), and when I went to pick it up there was a sign taped to the windshield "no front license plate holes", which i didn't even think to ask for. He told me they had made a trade with another dealer recently only to find out the other dealer had tacked on $7k of dealer accessories. He also filled the tank while I was signing paperwork. All around great experience.
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