[snerkler]

Sorry if this has been talked about already but I couldn't find it.

I'm considering an X5 50e M Sport and having never had a hybrid before I'm not exactly sure how it works.

The first thing I'd like to know is what range can you get in hybrid mode before the battery depletes and you're running on combustion only? I know this will depend on city vs motorway vs combined etc but are you able to do long journeys whilst still getting the benefit of having both motors working and therefore having access to all that lovely torque?

Does the combustion engine have enough power and torque to suit this kind of vehicle? I currently have an F15 X5 X30d M Sport for comparison and I wouldn't want to find that half way into a journey the 50e felt underpowered because the battery was depleted.

I'm in the UK if that makes any difference as I know cars are slightly different from country to country.

Any thought would be appreciated.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by snerkler

Sorry if this has been talked about already but I couldn't find it.

I'm considering an X5 50e M Sport and having never had a hybrid before I'm not exactly sure how it works.

The first thing I'd like to know is what range can you get in hybrid mode before the battery depletes and you're running on combustion only? I know this will depend on city vs motorway vs combined etc but are you able to do long journeys whilst still getting the benefit of having both motors working and therefore having access to all that lovely torque?

Does the combustion engine have enough power and torque to suit this kind of vehicle? I currently have an F15 X5 X30d M Sport for comparison and I wouldn't want to find that half way into a journey the 50e felt underpowered because the battery was depleted.

I'm in the UK if that makes any difference as I know cars are slightly different from country to country.

Any thought would be appreciated.

1) while in Hybrid drive mode, the vehicle may alternate between ICE power and electric power depending on speed, terrain, etc. it’s a hybrid vehicle so they work together…all the time. don’t look at it as electric first then ICE; it doesn’t always happen like that…depends. overall, expect about 400 miles on fuel itself. electric range starts with 40 miles but can provide more with regeneration that occurs throughout the trip (Hybrid > Hybrid Eco Pro). on a few road trips on my 45e, I’ve gone just over 500 miles on a full tank and starting off with a fully charged battery. with no road trips, I can go months and a couple thousand miles on one full tank since work commutes are fully electric, so I rarely use fuel (I charge every night)

2) the HV battery doesn’t deplete because gross capacity isn’t utilized; only the usable capacity depletes. 1-2 minutes after this occurs, the vehicle maintains a minimum charge so there’s always electric power assisting the ICE. (it needs to do this also because 12V accessories receive their power from the HV battery after DC-DC conversion; its 12V batteries are also recharged from the HVB as there’s no alternator.) BOTTOM LINE: you “never” run on ICE alone, so no worries about being underpowered**

**batteries are batteries. they don’t like extreme cold or heat, so there can be rare instances when the electric motor will be offline because the battery isn’t in a condition to provide power. search the forum for similar threads on this subject. I posted screenshots showing those particular instances. at these times, only the ICE is operable so be aware of power needs. from what I’ve read through other’s experiences, the condition is short-lived but can still feel a bit dicey.

BTW I bought my 45e blind so I didn’t know anything about hybrids either. be open to doing some things differently than an ICE-only vehicle as it’s a different class altogether. I consider this vehicle the best I’ve owned to date

[Mattl0806]

I think hybrid mode often confuses people.

You really have to look at a hybrid as having 2 separate sources of power, gasoline and electric. They both have independent ranges associated with them.

Hybrid mode is pretty much just trading off between using one or the other. You can run in this mode until both sources of power are exhausted.

Typically if a destination is not inputted in the nav - the vehicle will run electric first - using all of the battery immediately then switching over to fuel. If a destination is put in the vehicle will spread out the use of both sources of power. After the electric is used - you will recoup some more electric power throughout driving to aid in further fuel economy.

As stated above me - The car can go about 40 miles on electric and 400 miles on fuel.

If you understand my post - you would not want to say the car can go 440 miles before the battery is used.

[nZtiZia]

Hybrid mode’s utilization of electric first then ICE without navigation is highly dependent on other factors. e.g., if you’re going highway speeds at the outset, you’re likely using the ICE. if you’re running local errands in the burbs, then electric will likely be the power source.

[Daveschally]

Also in sport mode the battery is always helping but mostly when power needed to pass vehicles highway entry etc.
I have been on 50 mile trips in sport mode and used only 10% of battery range.
I also use the battery hold feature when I want to make sure I have battery when in a situation of no charging station away from home.
Lastly, you asked about combined range expectation and I would guess with the nav on and full battery you could go 75 miles when seeing the battery at 2% or so. Like previously was said you always have some reserve battery even showing empty.
I have measured acceleration both ways, full battery and 0 battery and it’s close.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by Daveschally

…you always have some reserve battery even showing empty.

to clarify this statement a bit... the vehicle doesn’t tap into the UNusable capacity as a reserve. when showing 0, there’s still a little bit of usable capacity/charge left. this is analogous to the empty fuel tank warning. when showing empty, you still have a little bit of fuel left

[nZtiZia]

snerkler on the topic of “underpowered”, one thing (well, two) you don’t want to do is:
1) run out of fuel AND battery charge, obviously
2) run out of fuel. you don’t want to be left with only electric power available as it’s not powerful enough for emergent maneuvers. (I tested this myself.) it’s also bad for the fuel system lines to run out of fuel

[snerkler]

Many thanks for all of the replies, I've not received any notifications (despite having it set, and I've checked my spam) so it's a good job I checked back on here.

Anyway, I'm understanding things a bit better now.

The reason for my question is that we go on holiday a couple of times per year, sometimes doing a 300 mile or so journey (I know that's not a lot for you US folk) and what I didn't want to find is that after 200 miles the battery was dead and I was left with ICE only for the rest of the journey. Obviously you're all saying this won't happen.

One other thing, is how long can you drive with the battery essentially depleted without plugging in? What I mean by this is, when we go on holiday as mentioned above we might go to a destination such as the Lake District staying in a remote cottage and it appears that more and more holiday cottages are not allowing you to charge your car there. Once we get to the destination we then spend the week driving around exploring.

Let's say I do the drive to the destination and the battery is essentially depleted, could I then drive around all week like this more or less running on 100% ICE or would I have to find somewhere to charge the battery up?

[nZtiZia]

snerkler
it’s a hybrid. if you don’t plug in… ever… you have the ICE to power the vehicle. as mentioned, you may experience limitations related to a no/low charged HVB. per design, it will perform optimally and more efficiently if charged.

[snerkler]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

snerkler
it’s a hybrid. if you don’t plug in… ever… you have the ICE to power the vehicle. as mentioned, you may experience limitations related to a no/low charged HVB. per design, it will perform optimally and more efficiently if charged.

Thanks

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by snerkler

Many thanks for all of the replies, I've not received any notifications (despite having it set, and I've checked my spam) so it's a good job I checked back on here.

Anyway, I'm understanding things a bit better now.

The reason for my question is that we go on holiday a couple of times per year, sometimes doing a 300 mile or so journey (I know that's not a lot for you US folk) and what I didn't want to find is that after 200 miles the battery was dead and I was left with ICE only for the rest of the journey. Obviously you're all saying this won't happen.

One other thing, is how long can you drive with the battery essentially depleted without plugging in? What I mean by this is, when we go on holiday as mentioned above we might go to a destination such as the Lake District staying in a remote cottage and it appears that more and more holiday cottages are not allowing you to charge your car there. Once we get to the destination we then spend the week driving around exploring.

Let's say I do the drive to the destination and the battery is essentially depleted, could I then drive around all week like this more or less running on 100% ICE or would I have to find somewhere to charge the battery up?

+1 on nZtiZia 's comment

You can always drive the 50e without charging for infinitely long by using gas only.

If you start your trip with full HVB, and only use sport mode, HVB will still be consumed mainly to power all electrical in the car, like HVAC, lights .... How long HVB will last really depend a lot of the weather. In a super hot summer day, driving in sport mode only, I have seen 45e HVB (~16kWh) last only 4-5 hours.

The part about both ICE and eMotor work together is accurate, but it is not like they work together all the time or even most of the time. In fact, the car hardly ever enable both power plants together. Take 45e as example because it is what I have. eMotor accounts for about 1/4 of the max HP and about 1/3 of the max torque. In sport mode, unless you demand more than 3/4 of the max hp or 2/3 of max torque, the eMotor won't turn on. The reality is, the majority of the time, we don't need nearly that much power or torque. For this reason, the HVB actually will provide the boost or assist when you need even when eRange show "- - -". The car reserve a few % of usable SoC for that rather "rare" occasion. If you want to see if and when both power plants are on, the energy flow diagram will show that info.

[snerkler]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

+1 on nZtiZia 's comment

You can always drive the 50e without charging for infinitely long by using gas only.

If you start your trip with full HVB, and only use sport mode, HVB will still be consumed mainly to power all electrical in the car, like HVAC, lights .... How long HVB will last really depend a lot of the weather. In a super hot summer day, driving in sport mode only, I have seen 45e HVB (~16kWh) last only 4-5 hours.

The part about both ICE and eMotor work together is accurate, but it is not like they work together all the time or even most of the time. In fact, the car hardly ever enable both power plants together. Take 45e as example because it is what I have. eMotor accounts for about 1/4 of the max HP and about 1/3 of the max torque. In sport mode, unless you demand more than 3/4 of the max hp or 2/3 of max torque, the eMotor won't turn on. The reality is, the majority of the time, we don't need nearly that much power or torque. For this reason, the HVB actually will provide the boost or assist when you need even when eRange show "- - -". The car reserve a few % of usable SoC for that rather "rare" occasion. If you want to see if and when both power plants are on, the energy flow diagram will show that info.

Thanks, makes sense. I assume the change from electric to ICE etc is unnoticeable and there’s no lag/hesitancy?

Strangely I received a notification for your reply but haven’t for any of the others

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by snerkler

Thanks, makes sense. I assume the change from electric to ICE etc is unnoticeable and there’s no lag/hesitancy?

Strangely I received a notification for your reply but haven’t for any of the others

I think this is because I quoted your post.

The switch from electric to ICE, mostly because you are in hybrid or electric mode to begin with, right?

In electric mode, if you push the gas paddle enough, you will switch to ICE. This switch is very noticeable

In hybrid mode, the switch is more seamless, but I would say not necesssry unnoticeable. Depend on how sensitive you are

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by snerkler

Thanks, makes sense. I assume the change from electric to ICE etc is unnoticeable and there’s no lag/hesitancy?

Strangely I received a notification for your reply but haven’t for any of the others

1) the transition from electric to ICE should be fairly seamless in Hybrid mode and vice versa though there have been reports of rough transitions in some 50e.. something to look out for. Electric to ICE can be more noticeable in Electric mode because of the kickdown maneuver or simply the relative power difference between topping out the electric motor and the turbo inline 6 suddenly kicking in. if I anticipate a needed boost in power such as in an emergent maneuver while in Electric mode, I’ll tap the steering wheel shift paddle. this transition is less abrupt than kickdown; a few seconds after completing the maneuver, it automatically returns to Electric mode

2) one should see notifications whenever you’ve been quoted or mentioned in a fellow forum member’s post

[snerkler]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

1) the transition from electric to ICE should be fairly seamless in Hybrid mode and vice versa though there have been reports of rough transitions in some 50e.. something to look out for. Electric to ICE can be more noticeable in Electric mode because of the kickdown maneuver or simply the relative power difference between topping out the electric motor and the turbo inline 6 suddenly kicking in. if I anticipate a needed boost in power such as in an emergent maneuver while in Electric mode, I’ll tap the steering wheel shift paddle. this transition is less abrupt than kickdown; a few seconds after completing the maneuver, it automatically returns to Electric mode

2) one should see notifications whenever you’ve been quoted or mentioned in a fellow forum member’s post

Thanks

[jad03060]

How seamless the starting of the ICE depends somewhat on the starting condition, and how fast and far you press the go pedal. In less stressful situations, you may not notice. Under sudden, full-acceleration situations, you will notice a slight delay. Also note, if the ICE has not been running, under some circumstances, the computer will limit the ICE RPMs but things warm up enough fairly quickly, and at least to me, that situation is a rare occurrence. Basically, BMW seems to have worked out the mating of the two motors quite well.

[apw2607]

Originally Posted by snerkler

Sorry if this has been talked about already but I couldn't find it.

I'm considering an X5 50e M Sport and having never had a hybrid before I'm not exactly sure how it works.

The first thing I'd like to know is what range can you get in hybrid mode before the battery depletes and you're running on combustion only? I know this will depend on city vs motorway vs combined etc but are you able to do long journeys whilst still getting the benefit of having both motors working and therefore having access to all that lovely torque?

Does the combustion engine have enough power and torque to suit this kind of vehicle? I currently have an F15 X5 X30d M Sport for comparison and I wouldn't want to find that half way into a journey the 50e felt underpowered because the battery was depleted.

I'm in the UK if that makes any difference as I know cars are slightly different from country to country.

Any thought would be appreciated.

You don’t need to worry and will have more power than you know what to do with.

[bono]

I have a 2011 X5 35d (the more powerful version of the 30d) and the new 50e. The electric drivetrain truly makes a difference. For the last 20 years, I’ve driven only BMW diesels because the gasoline versions always lacked low-end torque. However, that’s no longer an issue with the 50e. It offers a much better package than the 30d.

I use the 50e for towing a heavy trailer, and its power is especially noticeable on steep grades—it feels like it just wants to keep going faster and faster. The combination of the electric drivetrain and overall performance makes it a significant step up from the diesel.

[snerkler]

Originally Posted by jad03060

How seamless the starting of the ICE depends somewhat on the starting condition, and how fast and far you press the go pedal. In less stressful situations, you may not notice. Under sudden, full-acceleration situations, you will notice a slight delay. Also note, if the ICE has not been running, under some circumstances, the computer will limit the ICE RPMs but things warm up enough fairly quickly, and at least to me, that situation is a rare occurrence. Basically, BMW seems to have worked out the mating of the two motors quite well.

Thanks that's good to know. TBH the 30d can have hesitancy sometimes so I guess it'll be no different. The most annoying for me is if you roll up to a t-junction and then want to jump out into a gap quickly there's a hesitancy that can mak you think you're not going to pull out quick enough.

Originally Posted by bono

I have a 2011 X5 35d (the more powerful version of the 30d) and the new 50e. The electric drivetrain truly makes a difference. For the last 20 years, I’ve driven only BMW diesels because the gasoline versions always lacked low-end torque. However, that’s no longer an issue with the 50e. It offers a much better package than the 30d.

I use the 50e for towing a heavy trailer, and its power is especially noticeable on steep grades—it feels like it just wants to keep going faster and faster. The combination of the electric drivetrain and overall performance makes it a significant step up from the diesel.

Great, that's the kind of thing I wanted to know

[Daveschally]

Originally Posted by snerkler

Great, that's the kind of thing I wanted to know

Didn’t read every post but will testify that the seamless transition from ice to electric and vice versa is so unnoticeable that it’s no different than an all gas engine car moving from 3rd to 4th gear. At least my transmission is smooth as silk 95% of the time. In sport there are some understandable power changes you feel and going into sprint mode is similar to a rocket launch so very noticeable there

[Mattl0806]

Originally Posted by Daveschally

Didn’t read every post but will testify that the seamless transition from ice to electric and vice versa is so unnoticeable that it’s no different than an all gas engine car moving from 3rd to 4th gear. At least my transmission is smooth as silk 95% of the time. In sport there are some understandable power changes you feel and going into sprint mode is similar to a rocket launch so very noticeable there

I know this has been discussed at length but how about when battery is - - and you brake into a stop light. Leaving stop light you have a little bit of juice - you get e power to about 15mph. Then ICE needs to kick on - is this unnoticed?

Or you are casually driving on E with a chunk of battery life and need a sudden acceleration and go from 20% power demand to 100%?

These are the two scenarios I’ve found other hybrids to struggle with or at least behave more like an ICE car than an EV.

[Daveschally]

Originally Posted by Mattl0806

I know this has been discussed at length but how about when battery is - - and you brake into a stop light. Leaving stop light you have a little bit of juice - you get e power to about 15mph. Then ICE needs to kick on - is this unnoticed?

Or you are casually driving on E with a chunk of battery life and need a sudden acceleration and go from 20% power demand to 100%?

These are the two scenarios I’ve found other hybrids to struggle with or at least behave more like an ICE car than an EV.

As a lifelong ICE owner I became impressed with the PHEV drivetrain dynamics roughly 60 days in. In your scenarios I really don’t feel any ice to ev or ev to ice jerking but I may be less sensitive than most folks. Definite abrupt sound effects during some transitions may play a mental game as to smoothness for some. I know it does for me.