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      05-13-2009, 03:21 PM   #1
03BeastCharmer
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Z4 M Autox Alignment Settings?

My suspension is currently stock. I'm running Dunlop Star Spec's in 245/275 with the stock alignment settings. I'm wearing away the outside edge of my tires like I did on the stock Conti's. Before I completely kill these tires, I wanted to get a more aggressive alignment done. I plan to pull the front alignment pins and get as much negative camber as possible (I know it will not be much more than stock), but are there other setting that I should request be adjusted for a fun weekend car that does autox, but isn't a dedicated track car.

Thanks
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      05-13-2009, 04:29 PM   #2
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From a lot of research and a lot of asking around, if you're aligning the stock suspension, you want the following:

Front
Camber: -1.85 (Pull Camber Pins, and max out)
Toe: 0.00

Rear
Camber: -1.6
Toe: 0.15
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      05-14-2009, 04:02 PM   #3
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-1.85 degree of negative camber won't do you much good wrt wearing out the outside edge on autocross. You need at least 2.5 degrees, 3.0 would be ideal on stock suspension and on a lowered car with uprated swaybars and sticky tires, as much as you can stomach (I've seen guys run 5 degrees of negative camber).

If you don't want to get camber plates (for rule reasons, if they're not allowed), you can install camber bolts on the bottom of the MZ4 front strut to increase camber. Turner Motorsports sells them:

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html..._ID=TSU3690036

Yes it says E36/Z3 but it works on the MZ4. Trust me. Each washer will get you about another 0.5 degrees of additional negative camber, I'm running 2 washers with the strut pushed out to get to about -2.5 degrees for a dual purpose MZ4 Coupe. Will eventually get camber plates, but for now this solution will suffice.
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      05-14-2009, 04:41 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
-1.85 degree of negative camber won't do you much good wrt wearing out the outside edge on autocross. You need at least 2.5 degrees, 3.0 would be ideal on stock suspension and on a lowered car with uprated swaybars and sticky tires, as much as you can stomach (I've seen guys run 5 degrees of negative camber).

If you don't want to get camber plates (for rule reasons, if they're not allowed), you can install camber bolts on the bottom of the MZ4 front strut to increase camber. Turner Motorsports sells them:

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html..._ID=TSU3690036

Yes it says E36/Z3 but it works on the MZ4. Trust me. Each washer will get you about another 0.5 degrees of additional negative camber, I'm running 2 washers with the strut pushed out to get to about -2.5 degrees for a dual purpose MZ4 Coupe. Will eventually get camber plates, but for now this solution will suffice.
Thanks for the info on the camber bolts, I've been wanting to push mine out more without doing anything real drastic to the suspension. The numbers I listed were the best I could come up with for a completely stock suspension...
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      05-15-2009, 09:21 AM   #5
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Out of curiosity, what are standard spec alignment settings?
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      05-29-2009, 11:36 AM   #6
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Just ordered the camber bolts, should have them in time for a track event next weekend.
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      05-29-2009, 02:40 PM   #7
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I will soon have TCKline D/As and I'll report on how these improve handling.
I have the Dinan springs on currently with pins pulled neg camber to 2 degrees. My handling was improved, but still understeered. I hope my new suspension with camber plates will help.
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      05-29-2009, 06:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z4MCJJ View Post
I will soon have TCKline D/As and I'll report on how these improve handling.
I have the Dinan springs on currently with pins pulled neg camber to 2 degrees. My handling was improved, but still understeered. I hope my new suspension with camber plates will help.
Interested in your feedback. I think at the end of the year I may end up ordering some TCKline's. I pulled the pin and was only able to get about -1.1 camber. They wanted to slot the top to get me to -1.8, but I said No way. I may add a washer to the bottom of the shock to get a little more camber before I replace it all. What spring rate did you go with?
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      05-29-2009, 07:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03BeastCharmer View Post
Interested in your feedback. I think at the end of the year I may end up ordering some TCKline's. I pulled the pin and was only able to get about -1.1 camber. They wanted to slot the top to get me to -1.8, but I said No way. I may add a washer to the bottom of the shock to get a little more camber before I replace it all. What spring rate did you go with?
Whoa..Where did you take it to for this alignment, because I have serious doubts about their abilities. I'd say only one out of every twenty shops with a rack actually know how to use it...
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      06-01-2009, 09:54 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
-1.85 degree of negative camber won't do you much good wrt wearing out the outside edge on autocross. You need at least 2.5 degrees, 3.0 would be ideal on stock suspension and on a lowered car with uprated swaybars and sticky tires, as much as you can stomach (I've seen guys run 5 degrees of negative camber).

If you don't want to get camber plates (for rule reasons, if they're not allowed), you can install camber bolts on the bottom of the MZ4 front strut to increase camber. Turner Motorsports sells them:

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html..._ID=TSU3690036

Yes it says E36/Z3 but it works on the MZ4. Trust me. Each washer will get you about another 0.5 degrees of additional negative camber, I'm running 2 washers with the strut pushed out to get to about -2.5 degrees for a dual purpose MZ4 Coupe. Will eventually get camber plates, but for now this solution will suffice.
Hack,
I had already ordered the kit, but sent an email to the guys at Turner letting them know that their kit works on the E86 (per you) but they just sent me an email back stating that it would in fact not work...

Could you shed some light on this and/or possibly take pictures of your completed work so I can make sure my alignment shop knows what they're doing?

Thanks!
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      06-02-2009, 10:14 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jragan View Post
Hack,
I had already ordered the kit, but sent an email to the guys at Turner letting them know that their kit works on the E86 (per you) but they just sent me an email back stating that it would in fact not work...

Could you shed some light on this and/or possibly take pictures of your completed work so I can make sure my alignment shop knows what they're doing?

Thanks!
It doesn't work for the E86. It works ONLY for the E86 M. The M shares the same front suspension design with the E36 M3 and Z3 M. I think that's where the confusion is coming from, they assume that you have a Z4 3.0Si Coupe, which the camber bolts WILL NOT work on. But it does work on the M.

Be careful installing the bolt, it is fairly easy to cross thread when starting it since you need to have the hole on the strut line up perfectly with the hole on the king-pin, if not it'll start turning and in a couple of turns it'll be cross threaded. If you feel resistance in installing it in the first few turns, back it out immediately. It also takes about 90 ft-lbs to tighten if I recall.
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      06-02-2009, 10:37 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
It doesn't work for the E86. It works ONLY for the E86 M. The M shares the same front suspension design with the E36 M3 and Z3 M. I think that's where the confusion is coming from, they assume that you have a Z4 3.0Si Coupe, which the camber bolts WILL NOT work on. But it does work on the M.

Be careful installing the bolt, it is fairly easy to cross thread when starting it since you need to have the hole on the strut line up perfectly with the hole on the king-pin, if not it'll start turning and in a couple of turns it'll be cross threaded. If you feel resistance in installing it in the first few turns, back it out immediately. It also takes about 90 ft-lbs to tighten if I recall.
Thanks for the heads up and clarification. Looking forward!!!!
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      08-11-2009, 12:20 PM   #13
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No one mentioned altering the fronts caster angle. You could conceivably increase the caster angle gaining negative camber on turns only! That is the suspension will develop additional negative camber on turn in but will return to normal once the wheel straightens up. Not sure on how hard it is to alter though
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      01-11-2010, 11:54 AM   #14
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for the rear toe
do we want toe in or out?
I have the stock setup and did my M Coupes first AX this weekend.
running 245 front 265 rear Dunlops star specs
stock alignment ( did not have time to max the camber etc..)
Ive notice the rear really wants to come out while on throttle.
coming down an off camber turn just killed this car and it pushed like a pig.
Initial turn it seemed pretty good though. Then a little throttle steer while in the sweepers.
I was fairly pleased with the slalom transitioning
stock brakes were also not bad.
These cars have some great power just need to keep the rear from coming around on me.
Car did feel a bit like a sailboat on pillows compared to my Exige S though.
Might think about some stiffer single adj. Konis with the stock springs ( cant change the spring rate)
Any more info or help with alignment would be great.
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      01-11-2010, 12:38 PM   #15
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Did you get the 1,8 (1'48) on both sides, or is this in totall? My stock setup got max not further than 1 degree each side. After swapping left to right I've got almost 2 degree on both sides .

(front)
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      01-13-2010, 08:38 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasteel View Post
Did you get the 1,8 (1'48) on both sides, or is this in totall? My stock setup got max not further than 1 degree each side. After swapping left to right I've got almost 2 degree on both sides .

(front)


Did you check the front caster after swapping? I havenīt looked at the bolts layout to find out how the caster would be altered if swapped, thatīs why Iīm asking.

I have a shimming kit to play with the front camber for track days anyways, but would like to know how the caster is affected if the strut mounts are swapped left to right.
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      01-13-2010, 12:15 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutOn View Post
Did you check the front caster after swapping? I havenīt looked at the bolts layout to find out how the caster would be altered if swapped, thatīs why Iīm asking.

I have a shimming kit to play with the front camber for track days anyways, but would like to know how the caster is affected if the strut mounts are swapped left to right.
I knew it was a common thing @ CSL's, so that's why I tried (bmw-specialist, who didn't knew about it). I'm not sure about de caster difference, I'll look for the print (should be anywere around the garage).
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      01-15-2010, 08:16 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stubble88 View Post
for the rear toe
do we want toe in or out?
I have the stock setup and did my M Coupes first AX this weekend.
running 245 front 265 rear Dunlops star specs
stock alignment ( did not have time to max the camber etc..)
Ive notice the rear really wants to come out while on throttle.
coming down an off camber turn just killed this car and it pushed like a pig.
Initial turn it seemed pretty good though. Then a little throttle steer while in the sweepers.
I was fairly pleased with the slalom transitioning
stock brakes were also not bad.
These cars have some great power just need to keep the rear from coming around on me.
Car did feel a bit like a sailboat on pillows compared to my Exige S though.
Might think about some stiffer single adj. Konis with the stock springs ( cant change the spring rate)
Any more info or help with alignment would be great.
Make sure the Konis will be softer than stock the problem with the M suspension is that the struts are too stiff for its springs.

I haven't messed around with the suspension for autox but i felt that car understeer too much and that stock the toes is push in too much and needs to be closer to center. This may not be for you because i actually like the car to rotate easily through throttle input to get around the tight corners.
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      01-15-2010, 08:18 AM   #19
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I really hope our cars are put into SCCA new STR class (right now no M car). It's still not that competitive A stock and SSM (could be in SSM but i don't wanna pay a small fortune to run in that class.
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      01-17-2010, 10:30 PM   #20
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well here in SoCal they are running the SK1 SK2 Classes at the Pro and Nat tour (good)
which is stock cars on street tires. This helps me save lots of money moding the car.
I think SK1 is SS through BS?? I believe.

Things I want to do under the stock rules:

--Custom valved single adj. Konis ( any recommendations on the damping? )
can I get a lower ride height with these? Please advise if you have knowledge on this.
and where the best place to buy would be.

--Stiffer front sway bar? What is stiffer than stock Z4 M Coupe front bar?

--alignment, advise please.

--Dunlop star specs 245 front 265 rear.

thanks
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      01-19-2010, 10:34 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasteel View Post
I knew it was a common thing @ CSL's, so that's why I tried (bmw-specialist, who didn't knew about it). I'm not sure about de caster difference, I'll look for the print (should be anywere around the garage).

Thank you. Iīve been having a look at my engine bay and I couldnīt see any assimetricality between both strut towers. They looked perfectly centered to me.

I will give it a closer look later.
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      08-12-2010, 08:19 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03BeastCharmer View Post
Out of curiosity, what are standard spec alignment settings?
+1 ??

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