[JayD]

I have some questions for you audio experts out there.

I have a 2008 335 w/ the factory logic 7 sound system and the 6FL option which has the usb plug in the center console. I really like the sound of CD's when I play them. The same song through the iphone or USB mem stick or SAT radio all sound different. here is what I am perceving:

Best sound : CD
second best sound : iphone or SAT
third best sound : USB mem stick

I assume the quality of the CD is much better than any of the others.
Why is this and is there a way to improve the others? I know I can't do anything about SAT radio but I wonder why that is not as good as a CD. I use itunes to load songs from CD's to my computer and then to my iphone or USB mem stick.

thanks
Jay

[deletedelete]

I dont think thats right. The cd, iphone, and usb, can all have the music formatted whatever way you want. So the sound should be the same, right? I have no idea though.

[JayD]

The difference is very clear. It's like the difference between 2 channel stereo vs 5 channel surround sound. if anyone knows of a better sound quality way to copy CD songs to the iphone or USB mem stick, let me know. I have only used itunes to move and copy songs. I'm not savy when it comes to audio technology when it comes to computers and copying.

[VP Electricity]

The difference is based on the compression format your software uses to create the compressed file.

For instance, I use Apple Lossless on my iPod when I burn from CD. This is very close to an inaudible difference. But standard default compression settings, or the songs from iTunes, are compressed much more, and the difference is audible.

Congrats. You have figured out on your own how a generation of music listeners is giving up CD sound quality for cassette sound, just so they can have easy/free music over the internet. Sure glad we pioneered that technology so it could be ignored :/

If you re-burn the file at Apple Lossless or some high-numbered (low-compression-rate) format, you will hear the difference between tracks.

My shop used to install iPod interfaces. Our iPods always sounded great, but theirs often sounded like crap. Ding ding.

[VP Electricity]

Originally Posted by Prowess Symphony

I dont think thats right. The cd, iphone, and usb, can all have the music formatted whatever way you want. So the sound should be the same, right?

If the CD is using WAV files and the iPhone and USB are using low-bitrate compressed files, there will be an audible difference.

WAV files spank default MP3 compression files.

[deletedelete]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

If the CD is using WAV files and the iPhone and USB are using low-bitrate compressed files, there will be an audible difference.

WAV files spank default MP3 compression files.

True, but the OP can make whatever type of file he wants on the ipod/usb. So if all three players have the same bitrate and compression, wont they all sound the same?

cd, usb, ipod, all with the exact same file, will sound the same, correct? So the op has to rip his cd, and copy it to the usb and ipod without changing the format.

[cancunboy2009]

CD > Mp3 > Ipod > Aux
Everyone knows that.
CDs are uncompressed and MP3s are.

[VP Electricity]

Originally Posted by cancunboy2009

CD > Mp3 > Ipod > Aux
Everyone knows that.

Apparently not everyone.

Me, for instance. I would prefer an Apple Lossless over a low-qual MP3. Some will say a FLAC is better than an iPod, but there is no inherent difference among the last three on your list.

You are speaking of CD as a digital medium. That's an unwarranted assumption. When someone talks about listening to music on a CD, it's reasonable to expect them to be listening to WAV files, just like it's reasonable to expect an iPod to be playing MP3 files (even though an iPod can store WAV files - just not as many).

[deletedelete]

Originally Posted by VP Electricity

Apparently not everyone.

Me, for instance. I would prefer an Apple Lossless over a low-qual MP3. Some will say a FLAC is better than an iPod, but there is no inherent difference among the last three on your list.

You are speaking of CD as a digital medium. That's an unwarranted assumption. When someone talks about listening to music on a CD, it's reasonable to expect them to be listening to WAV files, just like it's reasonable to expect an iPod to be playing MP3 files (even though an iPod can store WAV files - just not as many).

You haven't answered my question though. If the audio file was the same on all three, cd/ipod/usb, then the sound would be the same correct? The sound quality is based on the audio file, not on what the audio file is stored on? Am I wrong?

[Stimulus]

I have found this to be the best combination for fidelity and convenience via USB. WMA Lossless allows tagging where WAV files do not. The FAT32 formatting allows the USB stick to be accessed much faster than FAT16.

I use foobar2000 to convert flac files to WMA Lossless and I load them onto a 16GB USB stick. Search on hydrogenaudio.org for foobar2000 conversion instructions.

I bought a used Toshiba Gigabeat S with 60GB drive too. It supports WMA Lossless and if you plug it into the USB port, the audio system finds it.

The only drawback of WMA Lossless is that it is a Microsoft closed source codec, so not many players can handle it.

Too bad BMW won't support flac.

[amlebede]

It more depends on the quality of recording, hardware, and software playing them. All of these are 2-channel (stereo) connections which deliver roughly the same quality music.

[Rosetta Stoned]

There are different EQ settings for the inputs so don't forget to check that. I also agree that ALAC/FLAC are superior but it really depends on the music. Most music these days is compressed to all hell anyways when you buy it on CD, and then further compressed when ripping onto your computer AAC/MP3. Most people perceive louder to be better and actually end up liking compressed music more, go figure....

[memento]

Originally Posted by cancunboy2009

CD > Mp3 > Ipod > Aux
Everyone knows that.
CDs are uncompressed and MP3s are.

wow. looks like everyone needs an education.

First, CD is indeed > than the rest. you got that right.

iPod can handle a number of different formats. MP3 actually being the worst sounding. Apple Lossless is the best sounding, meaning closest to CD quality. AAC is next, then MP3 (for iPod compatible formats). Add to that bitrates. higher bitrates will always sound better, but comparing the same bitrates, AAC will blow MP3 away. Now where does Aux fit in? That is just a 1/8" stereo jack. That should not even be a part of the comparison. But if you want to talk about connections, then aux is pretty good. That is REALLY dependent on the D/A converter of your device for the sound quality. Same for USB and iPod interfaces. Using a 1st gen iPod nano with the iPod interface and Apple Lossless, the sound is still not as good when compared to the same music on CD. Why? a couple of reasons. Apple's method of transmitting audio via the dock. BMW's method of receiving and processing iPod dock audio. It all adds up.

one more correction to this thread. CD audio is NOT WAV format. WAV is a Windows format that windows PCs use to read CD audio, which is actually PCM.

[discs4sale]

Hi JayD,

I think I have a reason and solution for your situation with Apple iPod at least. I have a 2008 535i, but your 2008 335i is probably similar in which the built-in USB/Aux module is inside the center armrest compartment. On the BMW, the USB portion is used for iPod control and the AUX connector is used for the actual analog audio from the iPod line output. There has been talk in the 5series.net forum about an older BMW AUX cable having a filter/protection circuit embedded in the wiring which degrade sound quality. I've been dissatified with my AUX input for over a year and realized that the USB/AUX module might have a simlar limitation as that was documented with the standalone AUX option. To cut to the chase, I removed two 0.1uF caps that were on a PCB inside the AUX connector module. They were acting as low pass filters and took some life out of the high frequencies. I did this mod over last weekend and is documented in the thread link below. Hope that helps and is the solution for you. I can't comment on the bad sound through USB stick since it is digital data going to BMW's DAC for conversion. That could be a hit or miss in terms of sound quality since the head unit needs to process USB data, extract samples, perform sampling rate/bit rate conversions etc before presenting to the DACs.


http://forums.5series.net/index.php?showtopic=89170

[HighVoltage]

Originally Posted by Prowess Symphony

True, but the OP can make whatever type of file he wants on the ipod/usb. So if all three players have the same bitrate and compression, wont they all sound the same?

cd, usb, ipod, all with the exact same file, will sound the same, correct? So the op has to rip his cd, and copy it to the usb and ipod without changing the format.

To answer your question, yes given the exact same file and DAC, the storage medium for the most part is irrelevant. However it could be argued that some storage formats are quicker to read (access) from than others, which could impact the overall playback if the platform is approaching its max processing bandwidth.

Apple Lossless is actually the same quality as PCM (CD) despite what has been mentioned. Any apparent decrease in quality, is an indicator in the processing prowess (or lack thereof) of the platform and not the format.
This is true of any lossless format. However lossy formats such as MP3, AAC, OGG, etc will suffer in quality as compared to the raw PCM depending on the settings for the compression. If you want a primer in the subject start with Fourier and Discrete Cosine Transforms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modifie...sine_transform

Generally speaking the more efficient the lossless format is, the more horsepower it will take to decode. Sometimes decoders take shortcuts or compromise buffers to keep up with the process.

[memento]

discs4sale - thank you for that link! That totally validates my suspicions that the connection degrades the sound quality. There's no reason why Apple Lossless should sound worse than the same music on CD, but yet I can hear a difference on my BMW.

[discs4sale]

Originally Posted by memento

discs4sale - thank you for that link! That totally validates my suspicions that the connection degrades the sound quality. There's no reason why Apple Lossless should sound worse than the same music on CD, but yet I can hear a difference on my BMW.

Mememto,
Hopefully, my ears aren't the only ones that will be able to tell a difference and that more members will be able to validate the sound improvement through the AUX input. It's a little bit of work to do the mod, but worth it if you can't stand the major sound quality difference between built-in CD and AUX sources.

[tres]

with apple itunes plus you cant tell the difference with your ear for the best quality sound music recorded on an sa cd songs the best you can look up iasca and other caraudio bodies and get some more info i used to compete in the sq division and ipods burnt cds usb stuff was a no no i personally like my ipod but then again what may sound quality to my ears may sound like garbage to your ears sound quality is very subjective

[memento]

My home system is worth over $10k, not that spending that kind of money means that I have a good ear, but it would be foolish to spend that if all I wanted to do is say that I have Martin Logans blah blah blah. Sound quality means a lot to me. Every car I've ever had, I've replaced the stereo/amp/speakers in. This is my first BMW and I'm reluctant to start hacking at it, but the crappy sound is driving me nuts. It's tempting to try your mod, but for now I'm sticking with using CDs. In the meantime, I'm watching BSW for their amp replacement. But I will say that I hear a difference with iPod vs. CD when I shouldn't.

tres - I think what you are saying is that with iTunes plus - YOU can't tell the difference. Some of us can. It is subjective and dependent on your ears, training, and system.

I had a friend who was using the power cord off a 50 year old lamp as speaker wire. I got him some actual speaker wire and the difference was huge in my ears, yet he couldn't even tell. subjective.

[tres]

Ive always had great sound systems also in my cars the last one i had mb quart qsd 3 way system in kick panels alpine pdx amps the whole car was dynamat extreme (which added weight) pioneer prs 800 hu stinger speaker wires monster xln extreme interconnects and pioneer prs subs in a custom fiberglass enclosure and youre right wire does make a difference in transfering clean signals but tuning is the key i wana upgrade my 335i also but i think im keeping it small by upgrading to morels or focals upfront and sws subs no more trunk subs for me good luck with your new system i might get some good ideas from your set up

[rolling18]

if you have the different formats ALL uncompressed wont they saound as good as a CD?

also, if you have one of these formats and convert them to .wav how could that make them sound better? it like you cant add sound quality to something that wasnt there to start with..?

[dolby]

Originally Posted by memento

I had a friend who was using the power cord off a 50 year old lamp as speaker wire. I got him some actual speaker wire and the difference was huge in my ears, yet he couldn't even tell. subjective.

Sorry to interrupt this thread but I need to scratch a pet peeve itch. This is one of the biggest consumer perpetrated myths. Any difference you hear is placebo effect. 18ga zip cord will sound the same to human ears as set of $200+/ft speaker cables on normal cable lengths. In my 20+ years of experience as an audio engineer, I have never heard anything to dispute it.

I always get a kick out of things like this....
http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/03/a...ter-cable-and/

Save your money on speaker and interconnect cables and invest it in the speakers if you truly want better sound reproduction.

dolby