[JLR1969]

I have bought a picture and frame from a dealer on ebay for £289, when it arrived the glass was broken and the picture damaged.

I have asked for a full refund and the dealer is trying to wriggle out of it saying its the couriers fault etc etc.

To cut a long story short I have basically said unless I receive a full refund within 24 hours I am reporting him to the Paypal resolution centre and leaving negative feedback.

What are my rights??? Any advice welcome......

PS. Carlos no comments from you about Paypal

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by JLR1969

I have bought a picture and frame from a dealer on ebay for £289, when it arrived the glass was broken and the picture damaged.

I have asked for a full refund and the dealer is trying to wriggle out of it saying its the couriers fault etc etc.

To cut a long story short I have basically said unless I receive a full refund within 24 hours I am reporting him to the Paypal resolution centre and leaving negative feedback.

What are my rights??? Any advice welcome......

PS. Carlos no comments from you about Paypal

Lodge a dispute direclty with Paypal now, don't wait for the seller to 'resolve' it. Paypal should refund the money to you and take up your case with the seller - Paypal always protects the buyer much more than the seller.

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by E92Fan

Lodge a dispute direclty with Paypal now, don't wait for the seller to 'resolve' it. Paypal should refund the money to you and take up your case with the seller - Paypal always protects the buyer much more than the seller.

Thanks Tone

I did say to the seller that he has 24 hours to resolve it, do you not think I should allow him this time as agreed?

Could my position be jeopardized if I dont act straight away.

[- Paul -]

I'm with Tony - straight to Paypal - you've been reasonable by letting him know and asking for a refund.

[JonD]

Surely something of that value had insurance with the carrier, if so then he should refund you and recover the money from the courier. As E92 say’s log a complaint with paypal & ebay immediately.

[JLR1969]

He says the insurance was up to £100 as we declined the extra cover. The extra cover was never offered, either way its not for me to pay extra for delivery as he is the one who is posting it.

I pay for postage and expect it to arrive in one piece simple really.

[dxb335d]

Hope you get it Sorted Jon mate!

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

Hope you get it Sorted Jon mate!

Just completed the resolution section so we will see mate.

[beemerbird]

Have you checked to see if he's had other similar disputes ie. from negative feedback, just to see if he's a regular at this sort of thing.

Well, it's his reputation he has to defend and you've done the right thing in reporting it so good luck Jon.

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by beemerbird

Have you checked to see if he's had other similar disputes ie. from negative feedback, just to see if he's a regular at this sort of thing.

Well, it's his reputation he has to defend and you've done the right thing in reporting it so good luck Jon.

Cheers Helen. 100% positive feedback so far although this may change

[M3-FAST]

I would defo lodge the complaint with paypal straight away - They will then give the seller time to comply and sort it out. If he doesn't you will get the refund from them. Just check that the transaction offered 'buyer' protection and if so to what value? If the guy is a business and has top feedback, you will almost certainly be covered to the amount you paid.

I had a similar incident this week (but I was the seller) - I sold a piece of test equipment (£600 worth) that I had fully tested and calibrated before despatch. The buyer claimed it was faulty upon arrival and asked for a replacement. I did not have one so said that if he returned it I would refund him. He did this and I refunded his payment in full. He then wanted his return postage back else he would leave bad feedback for me. I asked ebay for advice and they said he is within his rights and I should reimburse his postage also unless my listing specifically states that I don't refund postage costs. PAYPAL refunded my selling fees (£20 ish) when I gave him his refund and ebay refunded my final value fees (£30ish). All I have lost out is the return postage and re-listing fees.

Give the seller a chance, if he has 100% feedback I am pretty sure he will want to safeguard that but show you mean business by following the process via ebay/paypal - make sure all correspondance utilises the ebay message system as that can be viewed by the resolution centre team.

Things do go wrong and am sure you will get it all sorted

PS: A seller can only leave positive feedback, whereas you can leave negative, neutral or positive. This further re-enforces your position as a buyer as he can't leave silly comments against you.

PS: What did you buy, anything nice? Collect quite a bit of art myself. Got the missus a Peter Smith piece as a surpirise for xmas.

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by M3-FAST

I would defo lodge the complaint with paypal straight away - They will then give the seller time to comply and sort it out. If he doesn't you will get the refund from them. Just check that the transaction offered 'buyer' protection and if so to what value? If the guy is a business and has top feedback, you will almost certainly be covered to the amount you paid.

I had a similar incident this week (but I was the seller) - I sold a piece of test equipment (£600 worth) that I had fully tested and calibrated before despatch. The buyer claimed it was faulty upon arrival and asked for a replacement. I did not have one so said that if he returned it I would refund him. He did this and I refunded his payment in full. He then wanted his return postage back else he would leave bad feedback for me. I asked ebay for advice and they said he is within his rights and I should reimburse his postage also unless my listing specifically states that I don't refund postage costs. PAYPAL refunded my selling fees (£20 ish) when I gave him his refund and ebay refunded my final value fees (£30ish). All I have lost out is the return postage and re-listing fees.

Give the seller a chance, if he has 100% feedback I am pretty sure he will want to safeguard that but show you mean business by following the process via ebay/paypal - make sure all correspondance utilises the ebay message system as that can be viewed by the resolution centre team.

Things do go wrong and am sure you will get it all sorted

PS: A seller can only leave positive feedback, whereas you can leave negative, neutral or positive. This further re-enforces your position as a buyer as he can't leave silly comments against you.

PS: What did you buy, anything nice? Collect quite a bit of art myself. Got the missus a Peter Smith piece as a surpirise for xmas.

It was a group wedding present a 'Mackenzie Thorpe' the glass is broken and this has damaged the picture. He says I should have paid the extra to cover the insurance from £100 to £500 and that I may have dropped it which damaged it so the blame is not on him.

[M3-FAST]

Originally Posted by JLR1969

It was a group wedding present a 'Mackenzie Thorpe' the glass is broken and this has damaged the picture. He says I should have paid the extra to cover the insurance from £100 to £500 and that I may have dropped it which damaged it so the blame is not on him.

PAYPAL will sort it, and almost certainly be on your side. Unless the listing clearly states that it is not covered unless you pay the additional insurance you will be OK. Did you check if buyer protection applied to your purchase? My arguament would be that he did not pack it adequately. He is the expert and should have packed it suitably.

Who is the seller out of interest, just so I know to avoid them in future! I have purchased a couple of pieces via ebay and they have all been very well packed. They usually have hardboard cut to the same size as the frame and placed front and back sandwiched between layers of bubble wrap and foam taped on the four corners before then being wrapped in a tough polythene to protect from water.

[themetz]

Originally Posted by JLR1969

It was a group wedding present a 'Mackenzie Thorpe' the glass is broken and this has damaged the picture. He says I should have paid the extra to cover the insurance from £100 to £500 and that I may have dropped it which damaged it so the blame is not on him.

If the ebayer you've bought off is a registered business seller then they are oblilged to comply with distance selling regulations. Therefore, if they have sent you something and it is damaged it is their problem. They can try and blame it on the carrier - but that is for them to lodge a subsequent claim against them. Your contract is with the seller.

Ref the fact that the seller was trying to make you pay for insurance - this is an extract from DSRs: http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/bus...ral/oft698.pdf

Can I charge the consumer the cost of insuring items that
I send out?
3.20 No. These items belong to you until they have been accepted by your
consumer. So you cannot charge your consumers for carrying risks
that you should bear. See paragraph 3.36 for more information.

Similarly, from http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/cons...page38102.html:

Q5. What should I do if the goods are faulty?
The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 give consumers an unconditional cancellation right, in addition to their rights under the Sale of Goods Legislation.

Where a consumer claims goods are faulty after having had a reasonable time to examine them (which could be after the expiry of the cooling off period above) the consumer's rights under the Sale of Goods Act apply.

The Act makes it clear that if the goods do not conform to contract and the consumer exercises his or her right to reject them, they can ask for their money back, providing they do so quickly. Alternatively, they can request repair and replacement or claim compensation. Please see the Sale of Goods Fact Sheet for further information.

If the matter cannot be resolved to your satisfaction, contact Consumer Direct at: www.consumerdirect.gov.uk (Tel: 08454 04 05 06). Consumers in Northern Ireland should contact Consumer Line on 0845 600 6262.

If it's a private seller - you have zero rights, which is why feedback is so important in making purchasing decisions via ebay.

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by themetz

If the ebayer you've bought off is a registered business seller then they are oblilged to comply with distance selling regulations. Therefore, if they have sent you something and it is damaged it is their problem. They can try and blame it on the carrier - but that is for them to lodge a subsequent claim against them. Your contract is with the seller.

Ref the fact that the seller was trying to make you pay for insurance - this is an extract from DSRs: http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/bus...ral/oft698.pdf

Can I charge the consumer the cost of insuring items that
I send out?
3.20 No. These items belong to you until they have been accepted by your
consumer. So you cannot charge your consumers for carrying risks
that you should bear. See paragraph 3.36 for more information.

Similarly, from http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/cons...page38102.html:

Q5. What should I do if the goods are faulty?
The Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 give consumers an unconditional cancellation right, in addition to their rights under the Sale of Goods Legislation.

Where a consumer claims goods are faulty after having had a reasonable time to examine them (which could be after the expiry of the cooling off period above) the consumer's rights under the Sale of Goods Act apply.

The Act makes it clear that if the goods do not conform to contract and the consumer exercises his or her right to reject them, they can ask for their money back, providing they do so quickly. Alternatively, they can request repair and replacement or claim compensation. Please see the Sale of Goods Fact Sheet for further information.

If the matter cannot be resolved to your satisfaction, contact Consumer Direct at: www.consumerdirect.gov.uk (Tel: 08454 04 05 06). Consumers in Northern Ireland should contact Consumer Line on 0845 600 6262.

If it's a private seller - you have zero rights, which is why feedback is so important in making purchasing decisions via ebay.

Thanks for the advice, really usefull. He sells the pictures on ebay but also has a shop in the south. I will check if he is a business seller on ebay.