[reforester]

Just to make all aware be careful if you order from these guys. Quick overview is that I ordered a set of AST4100 coil overs and their camber plates for my e92. Their sales rep Matt, told me they would come with Swift springs. When I received them the fronts came with AST springs. Rear springs (SWIFT) actually came on a separate day in a separate box. I initially talked to Matt at AST about the AST from springs and he said there was nothing he could do "that is the way AST sends them". So I moved on to the owner Terry. When I indicated to Terry the same he told me I was having a "meltdown about the springs. When I insisted that they had told me they would send me Swift springs he said that not to get my panties (these are his words) out of wack. They have done testing and the AST springs are just as good as Swift in their testing. That may well be true but the fundamental issue is that they did not send me what they said they were going to. So expect rudeness and childlike language responses from these quys if you have any issues.

[Nedim]

Thanks for lettin everyone know!

[Fair]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

There might be a "meltdown" brewing at Vorshlag? I've seen a number of posts lately in different forums about customer service issues. His inappropriate response to you mirrors what has been reported elsewhere which is rather surprising. Maybe there's a lot going on behind the scenes?

There are two sides to every disagreement but it doesn't sound too complicated to me in the OP's situation. If he ordered Swift springs then that's what he should get, not an "as good" substitute.

FWIW based on data that I have seen the Hyperco springs are as good as Swift but the other spring makers, not so much. While you probably would not be able to differentiate handling performance between many of the springs, you should still get what you paid for.

Well there are two sides to every story, of course. I will explain some of the details of his order so you can judge for yourself at how terrible we are or are not. I don't think I had a meltdown, but it does get frustrating sometimes dealing with some customers.


Pictures of the special ordered 4100 kit for David's car, as delivered with AST springs

First, David's kit he got was not an off-the-shelf normal AST 4100 kit, as his car had the rear E92 M3 control arms, so it had to be specially put together. AST-USA was great in that they included special M3 style rear shocks, that I figured would normally be an upgrade, at no additional charge. We passed along the normal E82 4100's $1899 kit price to David. I've found out since that there's now a new part number and this kit will be offered specifically like this for the same price for everyone. This is pretty cool and we're adding it to our website this week. The pin-to-eye style shock is a better design than the pin-to-pin shocks that stock E90s/E82s non-M's have

Next, the springs... we don't specifically put the spring brand on our website product entries for AST kits, as it changes depending on the car and it sometimes changes over time. AST kits normally come with Hyperco or Swift springs, and sometimes AST sourced springs (all of which we've tested here and have the highest quality for spring rating accuracy, linearity, etc). Admittedly there was a mix-up in one of the dozen or so emails to David and he was told by one of our guys that Swift springs were going to be supplied, which is what he read from an the current model AST sheet for the normal E82 4100 kit. We should have re-verified this on his special-ordered kit before passing that along to him. David even stated that if we hadn't said they were coming with Swift springs in one email he would have been fine with AST or Hyperco springs. There was a time crunch on his end, so we were scrambling to get his shocks shipped ASAP - and I picked them up fully 2 weeks before he even paid for them. The supposed time crunch made the drop-ships necessary on the rear Swift springs, as well.



AST-USA provided us with the struts/shocks with AST branded springs, and we noticed that the rear rates were 10 N/mm higher than what was shown on the list and that we told him he'd get. We notified him about the rear spring rate discrepancy and he was very adamant that he wanted the rates promised, so we had the proper rear rate springs drop-shipped from Swift through AST-USA. Again, we were told time was a big issue. I had no idea he would care about the spring brand for the front pair (90% of our customers do not even ask) but when he got AST branded front springs in the kit we shipped he let us know very VERY adamantly that they weren't going to suit his tastes and was "returning the whole kit!" because of this. So even though he told us he would have been fine with either AST or Hyperco springs, since one of our guys mistakenly told him they were going to be Swift springs, that is the only thing he would accept. It was an odd response, as customer emails go, but I wanted to talk to him about it. I missed one of his calls at the end of a workday and that set him off a bit more... and his poor attitude was maybe a bit contagious. I haven't dealt with someone that handled an order issue so... well... in this way, in a while. With as many customers that we deal with, we do get a bit of everything.

After several messages left to him I did manage get David on the phone, to try to explain that the springs he received were what came in his special-ordered kit, and that all AST supplied springs were a quality offering. His bad attitude continued and he made some threats about returning this kit, and then I said "no way" and was a bit rude to him (for which I've tried to apologize - and I do here again - David, I'm sorry for that), but after that point David abruptly threatened me with internet blackmail (ie: his post here) and then hung up on me, and wouldn't answer or return calls from that point on. I tried to call him back but his next email to us let us know how he felt, and that nothing we could do could ever make him happy.



We could have dropped it there, since we were never going to please this guy - but I drove that day to the AST-USA facility in person and expressed David's extreme displeasure (and attitude and threats) about the spring brand. We placed another PO with AST for the other pair of Swift springs to be drop-shipped to him. We let David know that his extra pair of Swift springs were coming via an email, at no charge to him, since he wouldn't take our calls. Next we sent him an RMA and pre-paid return label for the AST supplied springs he didn't want - hoping he'd send them back. We had sure hoped the problem was solved, but we got another email today to tell us how terrible we were even though his issue was handled just like he wanted, but I guess we can't make everyone happy.

There was even more to this sale than even that long story, none of which helps his case here, but that isn't going to be brought up by the OP because he really seems like he wants us to seem like the bad guys. And hey, I get that, and I was kind of a jerk on the phone to David before he hung up on me. In the end he got his custom kit with the Swift springs he wanted. Also, AST-USA has taken this customer reaction and other suggestions from AST dealers and is switching all BMW E90/E82 kits to Swift springs - as that seems to be the crowd that has to have Swift. I personally don't understand the fascination with this brand of springs, and some people's posts make it seem that they have magical properties, but whatever. I'm sure that nobody will mind seeing Swift on their E82/E90 4100 orders. To avoid a situation like this in the future, neither will I.

I hope this clears up any confusion over our customer service on this issue, and I have no hard feelings to the OP. We won't do business with him in the future, but I don't think he minds that. And again - I apologize for being short or rude in my explanation to him on the phone. He got exactly what he wanted, in the end. As well, now all AST 4100s kits for these cars will come with Swift springs and there's a new part number and 4100 kit for this E82front/M3 rear shock set-up - so AST-USA has taken this situation and made positive changes for everyone with these cars.

Cheers,

[Fair]

Originally Posted by TrackRat

Regardless of what did or did not happen several people have posted about the attitude exhibited by you including voice mail messages, so perhaps there are some personal issues you need to address?

Well, the only "bad voicemail" message situation that comes to mind was after dealing with a kid on a Subaru forum a month or two ago - that was dealt with there, and 100% of the people that replied about that situation in that forum (I'm not going to get into it here) and even the other forums he tried to slander us on agreed with my response there, including the forum owner and moderators. Long story short - he tried to blackmail us for free parts, due to issues he was having because he was putting his camber plates incorrectly, but I told him that wasn't going to work. It didn't. He was - as I had warned him in my voicemail beforehand - laughed off that forum. But he won't let it go, and that's part of the fun of the internet - Everybody gets a voice! I don't enjoy those situations, AT ALL, but I also don't appreciate being threatened with blackmail and/or slander by customers, especially when they are in the wrong - like he was there.

I'm not trying to let that Subaru kid's blow-up cloud this customer David's situation. David was told he'd get Swift springs (I didn't get that email and didn't know until much later that was the case) so yes, he had a legitimate gripe about the brand of spring coming with his kit (even if he said elsewhere he didn't care about the spring brand). But it quickly blew up to giant proportions, he had a very bad attitude and hung up on me after I was slightly rude to him in kind, but in the end his spring situation was eventually handled, end of story. I would have been OK to leave it at that, but he had to go on a mission calling us out here, so I'm now telling our side of the story. There was a lot more to it than even what I'm posting here, with respect to his end, but I left out a lot of it. He's going to shop elsewhere in the future for his suspension needs, and I'm OK with that.

You have to realize - and its taken me years of dealing with all sorts of customers to learn this - its impossible to make everyone happy in this world. Any vendor is always going to have a small percentage of negative reviews, no matter how much they bend over backwards for people - and its usually the people that demand free shipping or discounts or custom this or that, that end up being the hardest to please. And anyone can hop on the internet and trash a vendor, legitimately or not. People tend to believe the customer first ("the little guy") and the vendor ("the big guy") is always "guilty until proven innocent." I've seen it happen to other vendors, and I've even interjected when I saw somebody getting unfairly slandered. But when you get thousands of customers a year its hard to keep track of everyone's smallest gripe - but we try. Ask on a bigger forum like bimmerforums about us, and I think the overwhelming majority of customers there will note a very positive view of our customer service dealings. Again, any one person can take offense at anything, even our polite refusal for the constant barrage of sponsored free parts everyone and their brother wants.

I used to get bent out of shape trying to make every single customer happy, but some people... there's not enough great quality, free swag, or discounts in the world to please them. With a small percentage of customers you just have to cut your losses at some point. There's almost always some "red flags" I notice on the phone or via an email up front that let me know to send a customer to another dealer or competitor... but I do miss some critical cues from time to time. Eventually I'll get better and avoid more potentially problem customers from the get-go... at least I hope.

Cheers,

[JB991]

^^ As a business owner, you should be able to take people being upset and rude when they don't get exactly what they thought they were supposed to get, regardless of his response afterwards.

You said it yourself, you didn't know what was initially promised until much later. I'm assuming after you told him to "not get his panties out of whack" is when he hung up the phone. I would have hung up on you as well. Then I would have called my CC company to dispute the charges and make you eat the return anyways.
Even if you tried to make right, after saying something like that, you'd end up keeping them. As a business owner, you should learn to bite your tongue

In the end, everyone got what they wanted, but you can't fault the guy for being upset and warning others of what they may have to encounter when placing an order with you. He didn't say don't buy or stay away from Vorshlag, he said to be aware of what to expect when the order is not filled properly.

My .02