[hun77777]

i was at the track for 5+ hours. had 16 runs. i have had cylinder 5 and 6 misfire issues for few months now which is not coil or spark plug related issue so i'm thinking either hpfp or injector... outta warranty no fun...

anyways, long story short, best time was done at my 14th run of the day out of 16 runs (there was an accident caused by some dragster towards the end of the night which resulting in ending the night early for everybody; otherwise i would've ran 20+ runs). No meth. peak bosot @ 18.2 psi. 1/8 of 92 Oct + 3 gal of trick 101 unleaded race gas so i don't know what that comes out to be... (anyone?)

R/T ... .114
60' ... 1.971
330 ... 5.421
1/8 ... 8.194
MPH ... 90.57
1000 ... 10.533
1/4 ... 12.481
MPH ... 115.89

9 outta 16 runs were worthless with misfires (didn't even hit 100mph and most of them less than 13s). 3 at 13 flat and 5 at 12s; 12.820, 12.677, 12.481, 12.584, 12.485.


anyways, the interesting thing happened after the track event... on my way home i smash the gas and boost spiked up to 20.8 psi. i drove kinda hard on my way back in order to make a best out of remaining race gas and hit 20+ psi few times and eventually got limp mode at another 20.8psi so i granny back home from thereon. it consistantly hit 19.x psi during the track event too so i don't know if my setting is off or what... even at pump gas, autotune let the peak psi to pump up to be around 16.x psi... so... why am i getting all this high boost psi compared to others getting around 15.x...? just fyi, my starting point was only 30% which would be 13 psi... autotune bump all the way up to 16. and with race gas it goes up to 19 psi... is that normal? i don't even have meth......... yet


not that i'm complaining but just to see how everyone else is doing because i've dig around few thread and it seems like everyone with procede autotune who has stage 3 bolt on without meth are getting around 15.5psi-ish...

maybe shiv can shed some light into this?

[Sniz]

IMO your running too much boost for your gas and conditions....what did your timing logs look like?

your trap speed is low for that boost.........

you should really concentrate on getting the car running right hardware wise as well.

[jpsimon]

what do you have your max boost limit set to? sounds like it's set too high. also if you have misfire issues you should probably get that fixed before going to the track

[scottp999]

I noticed short spikes above the max boost setting, at shifts (6MT) with <25 firmware on the vent gauge. So far with firmware 25 they are gone. More testing later today.

[KhanhyeEast]

16 runs while having misfire problems? hmm....

[OpenFlash]

The autotuned boost settings of 16psi and 19psi on pump and pump/race gas are reasonable given drag race conditions (12 sec at a time wot, high rpm only). But running your car when you have a hardware problem (hpfp, injector, etc) is a recipe for disaster. You really need to sort that out before anything else.

[hun77777]

Originally Posted by Sniz

IMO your running too much boost for your gas and conditions....what did your timing logs look like?

your trap speed is low for that boost.........

you should really concentrate on getting the car running right hardware wise as well.

i know i was running too much boost but my max boost limit was set at 19 psi and i was expecting it to be around 18.x psi at the max... 19.x/20.x psi i was getting could've been boost spike but i just wanted to see if this is just me.

i couldn't get up to higher trap speed because those 12 sec runs, i had to shift from 3rd to 4th way earlier in order not to get misfire (@ around 5.5kish), hence lower trap speed...

my misfire issue was not severe, or i thought at least until today, because it didn't even happen on street most of the time. it just happens once in a while and so i didn't even bother until yesterday. now that i know, i'll be on top of this...

Originally Posted by jpsimon

what do you have your max boost limit set to? sounds like it's set too high. also if you have misfire issues you should probably get that fixed before going to the track

19 psi was max boost limit. and yea now that i know misfire issue is getting in a way, i'll have it fixed...

Originally Posted by scottp999

I noticed short spikes above the max boost setting, at shifts (6MT) with <25 firmware on the vent gauge. So far with firmware 25 they are gone. More testing later today.

i was on firmware #25 and i didn't have a chance to test with race gas until yesterday... i was consistantly hitting 16~16.x psi on pump gas setup though which is still on high side...

Originally Posted by KhanhyeEast

16 runs while having misfire problems? hmm....

misfire issue i was having wasn't severe and at the end of the trap it just goes away and i already paid for the track so i just wanted to make the best out of it...

[hun77777]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

The autotuned boost settings of 16psi and 19psi on pump and pump/race gas are reasonable given drag race conditions (12 sec at a time wot, high rpm only). But running your car when you have a hardware problem (hpfp, injector, etc) is a recipe for disaster. You really need to sort that out before anything else.

yes sir. but why did it go up to my max boost setting? or was it reading the boost spike? i didn't have a chance to datalog so i guess can't really tell much...

[gerardm]

wat are you checking boost with, if ur using ur p3 gauge maybe it just needs a quick calibration.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by hun77777

yes sir. but why did it go up to my max boost setting? or was it reading the boost spike? i didn't have a chance to datalog so i guess can't really tell much...

6at or 6mt? How are u reading this peak boost value?

[hun77777]

Originally Posted by gerardm

wat are you checking boost with, if ur using ur p3 gauge maybe it just needs a quick calibration.

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

6at or 6mt? How are u reading this peak boost value?

based on both P3 guage and procede gas guage. and i checked the calibration between P3 vent guage and procede and it was correct.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by hun77777

based on both P3 guage and procede gas guage. and i rechecked the calibration between P3 vent guage and procede and it was correct.

6mt or 6at? If 6at, you are naturally going to get a 1-1.5psi spike at the upshift. Especially if you are short shifting. And peak/hold values on any gauge can be a little too revealing as they will catch super short duration spikes that you can even see on a needle gauge.

But the bigger picture here is you needing to sort out your car before racing it.

[hun77777]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

6mt or 6at?

6AT

[hun77777]

is there a difference between 6MT and 6AT as far as boost spike goes?

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by hun77777

is there a difference between 6MT and 6AT as far as boost spike goes?

Yes... many threads on that subject. 6ATs will have a natural upshift spike which is caused by throttle remaining open while revs are being dragged down by the transmission. This means that the turbos have to decelerate quickly to equalize boost pressure. This spike duration usually lasts around 0.2 seconds. You'll see this in a stock tuned car to some degree as well. The spike is a non-issue since the DME compensates by setting ignition advance to 0 during the shift event.

This is why datalogging is important if you really want to see what is going on. Things like peak hold displays only give you a snapshot of one particular condition that you really don't care about too much.

But again, get your hardware issue solved before doing this kind of stuff. Autotune assumes that everyone else is working functionally. It has no way to compensating for a misfire issue. Whatever the cause may be.

Shiv

[hun77777]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Yes... many threads on that subject. 6ATs will have a natural upshift spike which is caused by throttle remaining open while revs are being dragged down by the transmission. This means that the turbos have to decelerate quickly to equalize boost pressure. This spike duration usually lasts around 0.2 seconds. You'll see this in a stock tuned car to some degree as well. The spike is a non-issue since the DME compensates by setting ignition advance to 0 during the shift event.

This is why datalogging is important if you really want to see what is going on. Things like peak hold displays only give you a snapshot of one particular condition that you really don't care about too much.

But again, get your hardware issue solved before doing this kind of stuff. Autotune assumes that everyone else is working functionally. It has no way to compensating for a misfire issue. Whatever the cause may be.

Shiv

oh ok. so the boost spike is not much of an issue as far as you see on 6AT. is there a reason i was getting higher psi setting under auto tune though? most ppl are getting 15.5ish with bolt on stage 3 and maybe around 16.x with meth but i was getting high 16psi without meth...

i'll probably get hardware issue squared away but if you have to guess what other possibility is there other than hpfp or injector? misfires only on cylinder 5 and 6 and i swapped around coil and spark plugs to see if it's coil or spark plug problem but misfire symptoms still persist on same cylinder which tells me it's neither coil nor spark plugs... i really hope it's not injector... which will cost me pretty penny...

[Sniz]

Originally Posted by hun77777

oh ok. so the boost spike is not much of an issue as far as you see on 6AT. is there a reason i was getting higher psi setting under auto tune though? most ppl are getting 15.5ish with bolt on stage 3 and maybe around 16.x with meth but i was getting high 16psi without meth...

i'll probably get hardware issue squared away but if you have to guess what other possibility is there other than hpfp or injector? misfires only on cylinder 5 and 6 and i swapped around coil and spark plugs to see if it's coil or spark plug problem but misfire symptoms still persist on same cylinder which tells me it's neither coil nor spark plugs... i really hope it's not injector... which will cost me pretty penny...

are those boost numbers your quoting a solid # or just something you saw on your peak recall?

datalog and report back please

[hun77777]

Originally Posted by Sniz

are those boost numbers your quoting a solid # or just something you saw on your peak recall?

datalog and report back please

16.x psi on pump gas is solid numbers based on procede program on netbook. i'll try to datalog...

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by hun77777

oh ok. so the boost spike is not much of an issue as far as you see on 6AT. is there a reason i was getting higher psi setting under auto tune though? most ppl are getting 15.5ish with bolt on stage 3 and maybe around 16.x with meth but i was getting high 16psi without meth...

i'll probably get hardware issue squared away but if you have to guess what other possibility is there other than hpfp or injector? misfires only on cylinder 5 and 6 and i swapped around coil and spark plugs to see if it's coil or spark plug problem but misfire symptoms still persist on same cylinder which tells me it's neither coil nor spark plugs... i really hope it's not injector... which will cost me pretty penny...

Different cars are going to have different knock resistance characteristics. Which is why we place max limits on auto learning. FWIW, my stg3 car autotunes up to 14-15psi on pump gas (91oct) and up to 17-17.5psi on meth. On meth and race gas, it goes immediately to 20psi which is the max limit.

Last night, StartupJunkie was running his stg3 6AT at the track with race gas and meth. Boost climbed up to 20psi and ignition correction down to 0%. Stayed there the whole night with aggression level in the .5-1 range. Car ran 11.5-11.6 @ 124.5mph despite his.. ahem... dedication to the right pedal

[hun77777]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Different cars are going to have different knock resistance characteristics. Which is why we place max limits on auto learning. FWIW, my stg3 car autotunes up to 14-15psi on pump gas (91oct) and up to 17-17.5psi on meth. On meth and race gas, it goes immediately to 20psi which is the max limit.

Last night, StartupJunkie was running his stg3 6AT at the track with race gas and meth. Boost climbed up to 20psi and ignition correction down to 0%. Stayed there the whole night with aggression level in the .5-1 range. Car ran 11.5-11.6 @ 124.5mph despite his.. ahem... dedication to the right pedal

yea that's what i know and what i thought. it's just that everyone on stage 3 without meth seem to be getting around 15ish psi and i was getting about 1psi higher so i was just wondering... i'm hoping to hit 11s by next year with meth, without pass seat and DR, of course, once i take care of this misfire issue...

[StartupJunkie]

Thanks Shiv - yes, I'll post more of my results ... I beat my PR, but there was a lot more left in the car. I'll explain in a different thread. (/@sshat_on)

Junk

[jpsimon]

Originally Posted by StartupJunkie

Thanks Shiv - yes, I'll post more of my results ... I beat my PR, but there was a lot more left in the car. I'll explain in a different thread. (/@sshat_on)

Junk

get to it!