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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N57 / M57 Turbo Diesel Discussions - 335d > Need a 335d in the Pacific Northwest



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      01-04-2012, 03:17 PM   #1
DieselDiner
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Need a 335d in the Pacific Northwest

Portland, to be specific. HPF is willing to test fit one of their fmic's to see what would be needed to run their unit on our cars.

Is there anyone in that area that could work with HPF for everyone's benefit?
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      01-04-2012, 03:45 PM   #2
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I would so do it but I'm in So Cal
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      01-04-2012, 04:15 PM   #3
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Hmmm. Drive up to Portland sounds nice.

I'm absoltely slammed until summer time though.
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      01-04-2012, 05:22 PM   #4
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Cmon fella's... anyone?

Convince someone local to get one as a loaner and go!
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      01-04-2012, 05:26 PM   #5
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Cmon fella's... anyone?

Convince someone local to get one as a loaner and go!
Good idea.
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      01-04-2012, 05:33 PM   #6
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I'd drive up, but I'm busted up.
You get to keep it right?
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      01-04-2012, 05:39 PM   #7
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They didn't get specific, this all happened this week. I think they will probably start with simply visually comparing the i/c's, then go from there. I *think* they are very similar (the 335i and 335d i/c's), even though the part numbers are not the same. If they occupy the same space and have the same connections, I think we will have a good chance of success.
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      01-04-2012, 05:48 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by jkman720 View Post
Hmmm. Drive up to Portland sounds nice.

I'm absoltely slammed until summer time though.
Keep it in mind, we might get to summer and still need a volunteer!
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      01-04-2012, 05:59 PM   #9
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Contact me privately. Let's see what can be done.
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      01-04-2012, 06:41 PM   #10
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Contact me privately. Let's see what can be done.
Sent you a pm.
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      01-04-2012, 10:29 PM   #11
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I may be able to assist if Ron1n's plan falls through.
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      01-05-2012, 08:19 AM   #12
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I may be able to assist if Ron1n's plan falls through.
He should let me know if the plans work out in the next couple of days, so I'll let you know. Thank you for replying!
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      01-06-2012, 11:58 AM   #13
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Update: nothing new yet, ttt.
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      01-06-2012, 02:19 PM   #14
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Ok, talked to HPF a little bit. I have some tasks this weekend that will allow us to see where things are headed. Cross your fingers...and thanks to Joe for being proactive on this...very awesome.
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      01-06-2012, 02:59 PM   #15
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Nice see others taking the iniative to pursue aftermarket options for the d.
Curious though, what is the goal? Larger IC? Then what?
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      01-06-2012, 03:10 PM   #16
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Lower temps, higher boost! :P
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      01-06-2012, 03:28 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron1n View Post
Lower temps, higher boost! :P
Has anyone yet measured the inlet and outlet temps of our stock IC to see how efficient or inefficient the stock IC is?

A larger IC may actually end up increasing turbo lag unless the car is tuned to run more boost to compensate for the cooler more condensed intake air. Boost pressure increase is not usually a bi-product of increasing the size of an IC, unless there is something different about our cars that I am not aware of.
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      01-06-2012, 03:38 PM   #18
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In my case, the fmic would preceed a tune, probably from Renntech. I would like to have the fmic in place before I take the car to them for tuning.

Chris, heat soak and retarded timing/lower boost is also a consideration. Every dyno comparison I've seen of the 335i factory i/c versus an upgraded aftermarket i/c shows the factory i/c heat soaking and then timing is pulled. I assume (bad word) our car operates in the same way, and might even be more sensitive to intake temps, since our intake plumbing has a temp sensor, and the 335i does not.

I don't disagree with any of your points, but as you know, info on the d is very sparse, so my attitude is "we gotta start somewhere."
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      01-06-2012, 04:08 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselDiner View Post
In my case, the fmic would preceed a tune, probably from Renntech. I would like to have the fmic in place before I take the car to them for tuning.

Chris, heat soak and retarded timing/lower boost is also a consideration. Every dyno comparison I've seen of the 335i factory i/c versus an upgraded aftermarket i/c shows the factory i/c heat soaking and then timing is pulled. I assume (bad word) our car operates in the same way, and might even be more sensitive to intake temps, since our intake plumbing has a temp sensor, and the 335i does not.

I don't disagree with any of your points, but as you know, info on the d is very sparse, so my attitude is "we gotta start somewhere."
Gotcha on the tune. Thought it would be worth noting since you are considering it, that I heard from Renntech that they did not really touch boost considering our turbos operate at such high pressures stock. Without the increase in turbo boost turbo lag may increase.

I can relate to the issue of heak soak,,, my point was simply that by adding a larger IC it will not increase max boost above stock pressure. And while possibly helping to mitgate the issue of heat soak during track days or during hot summer months, I would be apprehensive to assume that our engines operate in the same fashion as the N54 or N55, our turbos certainly don't. By their very nature diesel engines run much cooler, so I would not be surprised to see much cooler inlet and outlet temps by comparison with a gasoline engine and it's quite possible that the stock IC is more than adequate.

I just think a good place to start would be to determine how efficient or inefficient the stock IC is by measuring inlet/outlet temps under load throughout the RPM band and how quickly outlet temps recover after a hard pull. You might be surprised by the results.

In any event, I am all for more options, you know that! If you are heading down this path regardless, and since you are stock now I believe, try and get a baseline dyno done before the IC is installed. I would be very interested to see if the IC by itself (no tune) increases HP's.
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      01-06-2012, 04:34 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cssnms View Post
Gotcha on the tune. Thought it would be worth noting since you are considering it, that I heard from Renntech that they did not really touch boost considering our turbos operate at such high pressures stock. Without the increase in turbo boost turbo lag may increase.

I can relate to the issue of heak soak,,, my point was simply that by adding a larger IC it will not increase max boost above stock pressure. And while possibly helping to mitgate the issue of heat soak during track days or during hot summer months, I would be apprehensive to assume that our engines operate in the same fashion as the N54 or N55, our turbos certainly don't. By their very nature diesel engines run much cooler, so I would not be surprised to see much cooler inlet and outlet temps by comparison with a gasoline engine and it's quite possible that the stock IC is more than adequate.

I just think a good place to start would be to determine how efficient or inefficient the stock IC is by measuring inlet/outlet temps under load throughout the RPM band and how quickly outlet temps recover after a hard pull. You might be surprised by the results.

In any event, I am all for more options, you know that! If you are heading down this path regardless, and since you are stock now I believe, try and get a baseline dyno done before the IC is installed. I would be very interested to see if the IC by itself (no tune) increases HP's.
In my situation, doing a stock (with stock FMIC), tuned (with stock FMIC), and tuned (with new FMIC) would be what my plan would be. I could also use the 3 different tunes I have to see what kind of results overall are shown. The problem with doing that, though, is that there's no learn-in time for the tunes if I swap them out that quickly, and without factors being as close to identical as possible, you end up with different results, but at least we could get a better idea, even if there's a 1-2% deviation in results.
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      01-06-2012, 04:44 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron1n View Post
In my situation, doing a stock (with stock FMIC), tuned (with stock FMIC), and tuned (with new FMIC) would be what my plan would be. I could also use the 3 different tunes I have to see what kind of results overall are shown. The problem with doing that, though, is that there's no learn-in time for the tunes if I swap them out that quickly, and without factors being as close to identical as possible, you end up with different results, but at least we could get a better idea, even if there's a 1-2% deviation in results.
This would be the ticket if you could do it - I know you've got a dyno source from past experience, so this would probably be the quickest way to get more info. "We gotta start somewhere."
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      01-06-2012, 04:46 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron1n View Post
In my situation, doing a stock (with stock FMIC), tuned (with stock FMIC), and tuned (with new FMIC) would be what my plan would be. I could also use the 3 different tunes I have to see what kind of results overall are shown. The problem with doing that, though, is that there's no learn-in time for the tunes if I swap them out that quickly, and without factors being as close to identical as possible, you end up with different results, but at least we could get a better idea, even if there's a 1-2% deviation in results.
That would be great to see even considering the variables. I suspect with a tune and even a tune like the JBD that does not touch boost there would be some benefit to a larger IC, since logic would tell you that with along with the substantial increase in HP that temps also increase. The unknown variable at the moment though, is just how efficient is the stock IC on a stock car. Then install a tune like the JBD and see what that does to the efficiency of the stock IC. It may prove that while the stock IC maybe efficient if the car is in stock form, but that it is up against the wall as soon as horsepower is increased significantly - that's what I am hoping anyway. Assuming this to be the case, without boost compensating for the cooler/more condensed air the larger IC would provide, the one obstacle or drawback maybe the increase in turbo lag, not sure that I could handle this increasing much more.
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