[daveishi]

Hey guys, I'm new to tracking (first time last Sat and loved it). But I saw a few posts about running a 255 square setup, any feedback on rubbing on stock e92? So far I've gotten one response that this setup has been run without a problem but they also mentioned camber plates which I haven't considered...

I'm in a 335is so it's got a "sport tuned suspension" of which I am still not exactly sure what it means, I assume perhaps a stiffer/high spring rate but same dual gas struts/shocks as 335i?

Anyway I want to run 255/40ZR17 R-S3's on a 9 or 9.5 in wheel. I don't want to do any body modifications and may consider coilovers or springs in the future but for now will run stock ride height. Currently have 19" 313M's, 9J 255 in rear so I know those will clear but I'm concerned about rubbing in the front since stock are 19" 8J 225.

Also re: the R-S3's the 255's are "XL" indicating that they are a higher pressure model, any input/opinions on that?

Any input appreciated! Thanks

[The HACK]

IMO...

It's way too early for you to worry about your wheels and tires. You haven't even come close to exploring 1/2 of what the car is capable of doing. To be blunt, these cars, even in the basic stock form, is far more capable than 99.9% of the population is capable of in terms of performance driving.

I would suggest that you tinker with the car when your lap times are consistently within a few tenth of instructors driving E36 M3s, then you can possibly start thinking about better wheels and tires. Just a thought.

[mid-corner fun]

sound advice. The only downside I see to this is eventually destroying expensive 19" RFTs and invariably having to buy a new street set and a track set.

He can probably buy a dedicated set of 17s, wheels+tires, for the price of just the 19 RFTs.

[e90pilot]

Originally Posted by The HACK

IMO...

It's way too early for you to worry about your wheels and tires. You haven't even come close to exploring 1/2 of what the car is capable of doing. To be blunt, these cars, even in the basic stock form, is far more capable than 99.9% of the population is capable of in terms of performance driving.

I would suggest that you tinker with the car when your lap times are consistently within a few tenth of instructors driving E36 M3s, then you can possibly start thinking about better wheels and tires. Just a thought.

I agree wholeheartedly except for one small thing. I'm not too sure about the IS model but I still think the stock ZSP understeers so much that it promotes bad habits in someone who is learning. I think the non-sport, which has a square setup, is much more well-balanced although it has low limits. Low limits aren't really a bad thing when you're learning. I think a square setup would do more for handling than any coil-over system alone could.

[henry418]

Definitely try to get squared tires.. I have square Conti DWS 245/40/18 tires right now (obviously not known for performance) and they feel a lot better and smoother than my summer staggered, albeit less grip.

[TSM330i]

Contact turugara, he's running 255/35 square on his 335is.

[turugara]

Originally Posted by AW325xi

Contact turugara, he's running 255/35 square on his 335is.

I'm running 255/35/18 square on OEM 18" 193m 8.5" rims (two sets of rears). No spacers required and no rubbing either. This is on OEM RFL.

I'm also on OEM ZSP and an e92. The front fender cannot be rolled and the rear is not rolled.

The strut side clearance was a few mm, extremely close. There was still a bit of room left on the fender side. I think you can run 255 r comps with no problem or a 265 thin tire. I'll be going for 255 r-comps soon.

[turugara]

I would agree with the fact that it may be too soon to move up to a tire like the RS-3. It would probably be more cost efficient to go with a cheaper tire for the track, ventus v12 or similar, and learn proper technique first.

Key points are:

The more grip the tires are, the better they mask your mistakes
The more you mask your mistakes, the slower you learn proper technique

Some gripper tires have less progressive breakaway and let loose unexpectedly.
As a novice, you probably wouldn't have the skills to control unexpected breakaway, let alone expect breakaway at all.

You'll burn through tires tracking. Period.
A gripper tire will get you a few seconds faster on a track. While you are learning proper technique, do those few seconds really matter? It's more cost effective to go with a decent set of tires, learn proper technique and skills, burn through a few sets without denting your wallet, and move up when your ready.

[TSM330i]

Originally Posted by turugara

I would agree with the fact that it may be too soon to move up to a tire like the RS-3. It would probably be more cost efficient to go with a cheaper tire for the track, ventus v12 or similar, and learn proper technique first.

Key points are:

The more grip the tires are, the better they mask your mistakes
The more you mask your mistakes, the slower you learn proper technique

Some gripper tires have less progressive breakaway and let loose unexpectedly.
As a novice, you probably wouldn't have the skills to control unexpected breakaway, let alone expect breakaway at all.

You'll burn through tires tracking. Period.
A gripper tire will get you a few seconds faster on a track. While you are learning proper technique, do those few seconds really matter? It's more cost effective to go with a decent set of tires, learn proper technique and skills, burn through a few sets without denting your wallet, and move up when your ready.

+1

[3002 tii]

All that rubber up front won't be beneficial without some negative camber dialed in.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by Dubbedown

All that rubber up front won't be beneficial without some negative camber dialed in.

BINGO.

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by henry418

Definitely try to get squared tires.. I have square Conti DWS 245/40/18 tires right now (obviously not known for performance) and they feel a lot better and smoother than my summer staggered, albeit less grip.

That's not a function of square, but a function of going with Non-RFT tires. Had you added 2 stock rear tires up front and gone square that way, I bet you wouldn't think they're any better (probably worse if anything).

[henry418]

Originally Posted by Dubbedown

That's not a function of square, but a function of going with Non-RFT tires. Had you added 2 stock rear tires up front and gone square that way, I bet you wouldn't think they're any better (probably worse if anything).

I went from non-RFT (Pzero nero Summer) to non-RFT (Conti DWS).

When I say smoother, I mean it takes corners more smoothly.

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by henry418

Definitely try to get squared tires.. I have square Conti DWS 245/40/18 tires right now (obviously not known for performance) and they feel a lot better and smoother than my summer staggered, albeit less grip.

Originally Posted by henry418

I went from non-RFT (Pzero nero Summer) to non-RFT (Conti DWS).

When I say smoother, I mean it takes corners more smoothly.

Then I would say it's a function of going 245/40, which has 0.6" more rubber/sidewall than the stock staggered size of 225/40 and 255/35. That would definitely offer a smoother ride, but again not the fact you went square. Without additional negative camber, having more rubber up front would cause worse turn-in, thus negatively affecting handling.

[henry418]

Originally Posted by Dubbedown

Then I would say it's a function of going 245/40, which has 0.6" more rubber/sidewall than the stock staggered size of 225/40 and 255/35. That would definitely offer a smoother ride, but again not the fact you went square. Without additional negative camber, having more rubber up front would cause worse turn-in, thus negatively affecting handling.

I never mentioned that the RIDE is smoother (although it is, like you said more rubber).. "When I say smoother, I mean it takes corners more smoothly."

I have -3 camber in front.

[3002 tii]

Originally Posted by henry418

I never mentioned that the RIDE is smoother (although it is, like you said more rubber).. "When I say smoother, I mean it takes corners more smoothly."

I have -3 camber in front.

lol whatever man, you should've mentioned that up front. can't tell someone to go square and not mention you have -3 camber, that's a lot more than stock. that's a huge reason why you can take "corners more smoothly."

[rothwem]

I've got a square Conti DW 255/45 R17 setup for my summer tires on the stock 17x8.5 et37 wheels. It doesn't rub and performance is good. FWIW, I went with a squared setup more for tire rotation purposes. The fronts tend to wear the outsides, and the backs tend to wear the insides, so a swap from front to back will hopefully even out the wear. I haven't done it yet, but I'll let the forum know when I swap them back on for the summer. I suspect I might have a bit of noise for the first couple weeks while the tires get used to their new positions.

[henry418]

Originally Posted by Dubbedown

lol whatever man, you should've mentioned that up front. can't tell someone to go square and not mention you have -3 camber, that's a lot more than stock. that's a huge reason why you can take "corners more smoothly."

The thing is, I actually had the square set up for a month with only -1 camber (by pulling pins out) and it still felt a lot better than staggered (235/265). Maybe the actual grip is less but the turn-in "feel" was 100% better.

[UltraRacer13]

jbass was running R888's 255 up front IIRC and said they were pretty square and that without plates up front they would have rubbed.

[jbass524]

Originally Posted by UltraRacer13

jbass was running R888's 255 up front IIRC and said they were pretty square and that without plates up front they would have rubbed.

That's true.

R comps are generally more square so a 255 r-comp needs more room than a 255 street. I had a 15mm spacer and -3 camber and all was good.

For street I use 235/265 with -1.5 camber although I could definitely fit a 245 up front with no rubbing.

Another issue is that in full lock the 255 can rub the fender well. It did mine and put a leak in my washer fluid hose and a hole in my fender liner. Just something to watch for.

[UltraRacer13]

Originally Posted by jbass524

That's true.

R comps are generally more square so a 255 r-comp needs more room than a 255 street. I had a 15mm spacer and -3 camber and all was good.

For street I use 235/265 with -1.5 camber although I could definitely fit a 245 up front with no rubbing.

Another issue is that in full lock the 255 can rub the fender well. It did mine and put a leak in my washer fluid hose and a hole in my fender liner. Just something to watch for.

thanks for the input! Man, am I sorry I passed on your Arc-8's. Are the spacers necessary up front? Rear?

[jbass524]

Originally Posted by UltraRacer13

thanks for the input! Man, am I sorry I passed on your Arc-8's. Are the spacers necessary up front? Rear?

No problem. Great wheels. I still have a set on my car for street.

Spacers required for both ft and rr. for square 255 setup with ARC 8s.