[dobbo99]

Anyone had a knee microfracture (knee abrasion arthroplasty) or similar, in the past?

I had an op last year (in May) where the back of the kneecap was drilled to stimulate new cartilage growth, but im still really struggling, now with a different area as well (medial meniscus)

Im struggling to get any type of direction or genuine advice from the Consultant, Ive given up the hope of playing football again, but Id quite like to be able to get up in the morning, or walk around the shops for more than 20mins without being in pain.

[mowflow]

Had a friend who had some kind of medial meniscus operation about 2 years ago, sorry I don't know the exact details. He was an ex-bodybuilder so pretty big guy that had put horrible pressure on his knees by lifting very heavy weights.

Never hear him complaining about his knees now and has been competing in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu the last couple of years.

Sorry this post is a bit useless but maybe give you a bit of hope. There's nothing worse than being restricted by injuries.

[JLR1969]

I did not think it was possible to grow cartridge once it was worn or cut out.

[dobbo99]

Originally Posted by JLR1969

I did not think it was possible to grow cartridge once it was worn or cut out.

its not your right.
basically they cut away the dead cells/cartilage, and then drill into the bone which inturn bleeds and creates a substitute type tissue (a blood clot really).
after a period, this hardens to plug the gap.
quite clever really!

apparently its never the same as the real deal, but can provide stability, pain relief and greater strength.

anyway, I had this on the back of my kneecap last year and its worked veru successfully, but Ive a new problem now.

im not a big guy, 6'4" and circa 16 stone, and at 33 Im not that old. maybe years of chasing (younger) strikers has taken its toll.

but there is just so much conflicting information out there about whats possible and whats not!

[fulcrum]

I have had two on the same knee but it was early days - 27 years ago.

It was fine after the last one and I got another 10 years of rugby.

Its been fecked for 2 years now though and apparently nothing to be done except for a new knee and I am too young for that.

So they have me on Glucomasine and Chondroitin tabets (natural stuff) which helps. I can now walk further than 50 metres without too much pain - on the level

The rest - well I got used to it and adapted.

At least with the Blue Badge I get to park in nice wide car parking spaces and so avoid dings.

[rogerxp]

Originally Posted by dobbo99

...im not a big guy, 6'4" and circa 16 stone...

Originally Posted by dobbo99

there is just so much conflicting information out there

Your first comment is conflicting in itself - you'd crush me

Sorry, no help whatsoever, but I wish you well .

[dobbo99]

well theres the positive then I guess, i might have dodgy knees but im not a dwarf!

[rogerxp]

Originally Posted by dobbo99

well theres the positive then I guess, i might have dodgy knees but im not a dwarf!

Hey, nothing wrong with being average

[magic77]

Sounds painful, I've had 4 knee ops luckily each time its just been to clean up the cartdlidge and its held. Though each time taken over 6 months before knee became stable and even now when its extreme cold conditions it has habbit of loosing all strenght and cant put any weight on it. Cue a walking stick now permanently in the boot just in case.

Yours was lot more complex are you doing this on NHS or private. Might be case of needed a new consultant. Tough on NHS but easier on private. Winter is always a bad time to asset a joint I find both my knee and my shoulder (two rebuilds) play up like mad in winter but are resonable still strong in summer.

I would wait until weather improves also if you already not doing it get a good supply of Glucosamine and start taking it daily. good Luck I know exactly what you going through

[misterS3]

I've had meniscus probs and i went to physio. Glute and quad strengthening work. Made a difference over 3 months. And like a typical fool that i am, i stopped because it was better, and then played golf and went to spin classes and now i have the prob back again!! So i'm back doing the physio on my own again.

Best of...it's no fun at 37 nevermind 33.

BTW - not heard anything conclusive about Glucosamine so i didn't bother with it.

[magic77]

gluco is a weird call , mrs works in pharma world and looked into it and its one of those 50/50 drugs there is a new one whcih is gluco with something else cant recall as box at home and it has shown some results.

I think its like all others the a-z viatamis , milk thistle some find it helps other dont. For me they help milk thisle seems to reduce my psoriasis and the gluco might help knee. Its a case that if it might and I could use all the help I can get why not no harm done

[dobbo99]

thanks guys.

its via the NHS, but is at a private hospital as the consultant undertakes the work. i was actually recommended him buy 2/3 others than I know through football work who he has helped, so I was expecting better, but maybe its just fooked - thats the issue really, there doesnt seem to be too much guidance from them.
maybe a 2nd opinion is the way to go, as I can be like this for the next 50 odd years.

i overdose on gluco and chondroitin (or whatever) though I think the input is debatable. it doesnt harm me though, so I'll keep going till Ive used my supplies!
it took me from May through to December to get to a point where running was a possibility, but since that point Ive had the problem somewhere else and just gone downhill again.

maybe a full summer will help it settle, certain that the cold weather doesnt help me at all.

im just desperate to get swinging a golf club again, which doesnt help I guess

[Hoops]

I can hugely sympathise with this. I've been quietly suffering with both my knees for years now. Im 41 years old and consider myself fairly fit. My problems started from both rugby and football and then from around my mid twenties i got heavily into weight training, dabbled with steroids and started lifting far too much weight for my size/frame etc. I always knew i had slightly weak knees - my left knee being the worst - and certainly years of snowboarding and jumping off motorbikes at 100+mph on track didn't help either. Then a few years ago my knees, again left being the far worse, would often lock and i would collapse to the floor. I then started running and training for the London Marathon and although i trained properly and never pushed it too far, my knees often gave me a lot of grief and running the marathon itself just finished them off. Ive now got to a stage where i can't run at all and even if i run 200 yards for a bus i will suffer for days after. Even spirited walking leaves me in a lot of pain. So, i had an MRi scan around 2 months ago on my left knee and it revealed a huge tear in the cartilage. Im having an operation on March 12th but I'm not very optimistic. Im guessing all they will do is remove the flappy bits of cartilage that the tear has left and smooth over what is left if anything. I also take Glucosamine and Chondroitin but I'm not convinced it does much. Good luck either way.

[dobbo99]

stevie, you might be surprised how much less pain you get by having the flappy bit removed, 50% is the aggrivation from that alone. I know this from my right knee - seperate story.

its the randomness of it all really. yesterday I was in agony all day, today the pains not there.

my brother lists the marathon has the defining point in his knees career, they have never been the same since.

anyone had the cortisone injections?

[makkan00]

Originally Posted by misterS3

I've had meniscus probs and i went to physio. Glute and quad strengthening work. Made a difference over 3 months. And like a typical fool that i am, i stopped because it was better, and then played golf and went to spin classes and now i have the prob back again!! So i'm back doing the physio on my own again.

Best of...it's no fun at 37 nevermind 33.

BTW - not heard anything conclusive about Glucosamine so i didn't bother with it.

Key point is listen to your physios and keep doing the exercises on long term basis. It really helps. Being a medical professional, I have seen how easily people ignore us.
If BMW dealer will tell you to have new turbo, before its gone, you will do it asap.
However if professional will tell you that these exercises are good for you, very few people will follow it. Surprising.

[makkan00]

Originally Posted by dobbo99

Anyone had a knee microfracture (knee abrasion arthroplasty) or similar, in the past?

I had an op last year (in May) where the back of the kneecap was drilled to stimulate new cartilage growth, but im still really struggling, now with a different area as well (medial meniscus)

Im struggling to get any type of direction or genuine advice from the Consultant, Ive given up the hope of playing football again, but Id quite like to be able to get up in the morning, or walk around the shops for more than 20mins without being in pain.

What is your BMI?
you are correct that in winter, the pain and stiffness is joints increase. There is a lubricating solution in your joint (althought not 0w-30) and its viscosity increase with decrease in temperature, and hence you feel stiffness and slightly more pain in your knees.

I personally think, you should consult a good physiotherapist who can examine you thoroughly, especially B legs, and your walking pattern.
After going through surgery, most of the time, the weight transmission through muscle changes, and if you do not recover from the weakness in muscles, you start developing other issues.
Such as pain in different part of knee.
As I said, a good cometent physiotheraist can identify it, and tell you, what sort of exercises you need to do to avoid any further worsening of the joint.
Also if you are flat foot, it does not help, and you may need podiatrist to get appropriate shoes.

[makkan00]

Originally Posted by STEVIEHOOPS

I can hugely sympathise with this. I've been quietly suffering with both my knees for years now. Im 41 years old and consider myself fairly fit. My problems started from both rugby and football and then from around my mid twenties i got heavily into weight training, dabbled with steroids and started lifting far too much weight for my size/frame etc. I always knew i had slightly weak knees - my left knee being the worst - and certainly years of snowboarding and jumping off motorbikes at 100+mph on track didn't help either. Then a few years ago my knees, again left being the far worse, would often lock and i would collapse to the floor. I then started running and training for the London Marathon and although i trained properly and never pushed it too far, my knees often gave me a lot of grief and running the marathon itself just finished them off. Ive now got to a stage where i can't run at all and even if i run 200 yards for a bus i will suffer for days after. Even spirited walking leaves me in a lot of pain. So, i had an MRi scan around 2 months ago on my left knee and it revealed a huge tear in the cartilage. Im having an operation on March 12th but I'm not very optimistic. Im guessing all they will do is remove the flappy bits of cartilage that the tear has left and smooth over what is left if anything. I also take Glucosamine and Chondroitin but I'm not convinced it does much. Good luck either way.

Cartilage = meniscus (singular) where as menisci (plural).
Sounds like it is medial meniscus.
If you struggle while going upstairs or downstairs, it is different ligament.
however if you get freezing episodes, or springy knee, most likely meniscus.

With menisus, there are different type of tears (one example is bucket handle tear). What tear are you having?

Possibly you will have only arthroscopy, and they will resurface the meniscus, and will take out (wash) the debris (torn particles of your ligament) which are causing you freezing / springy feeling when get stuck b.w two bones.

Are you having it done privately or NHS?
Stupid question though, as if you have been given a date, it is defo NSH.
Please get in touch with physio, and starts pre-operative exercises. People undermine exercises before surgery, but in reality, they help a lot, to recover quicker after surgery. Other things is, if you have done the exercises before surgery, you will be familiar with exercises and will also be able to see the difference in strength after surgery.

You will need proper rehab after surgery to recover and get better. Dont undermine anything and stick to, what you will be told.

Dont expect anything (as you said) and if you get good results, keep smiling.

[dobbo99]

Originally Posted by makkan00

Key point is listen to your physios and keep doing the exercises on long term basis. It really helps. Being a medical professional, I have seen how easily people ignore us.
If BMW dealer will tell you to have new turbo, before its gone, you will do it asap.
However if professional will tell you that these exercises are good for you, very few people will follow it. Surprising.

thanks for the advice.
unfortunately (or fortunately) this is my left knee, so Ive been through a couple of other traumas with my right already - these were simple ligament replacements though - ha simple he says!
i might put my hand in my pocket and visit a private physio though as you say, ive nothing to lose.

ive been doing physio religious since the op, the hospital ran a knee 'class' where you had access to a gym with the physio supervision, so ive been at it for nearly a year. the muscle is back and there strong if not stronger than ever, but unfortunately its just the pain within the knee that stopping me push on.

ive been fitted for orthapeadic inserts, got a pair for my shoes and a pair for my trainers, and that has helped, and we have worked hard to address the imbalances in the weight distribution.
i do get days where I get home and sit down and my good leg is tight/throbbing where unwittingly Ive put all my weight on it all day.

i think that ive just reached the end of the road with what they can do with the damaged tissue, its the articular cartilage which is of course much harder to deal with by the sounds of it.

[Hoops]

Originally Posted by makkan00

Cartilage = meniscus (singular) where as menisci (plural).
Sounds like it is medial meniscus.
If you struggle while going upstairs or downstairs, it is different ligament.
however if you get freezing episodes, or springy knee, most likely meniscus.

With menisus, there are different type of tears (one example is bucket handle tear). What tear are you having?

Possibly you will have only arthroscopy, and they will resurface the meniscus, and will take out (wash) the debris (torn particles of your ligament) which are causing you freezing / springy feeling when get stuck b.w two bones.

Are you having it done privately or NHS?
Stupid question though, as if you have been given a date, it is defo NSH.
Please get in touch with physio, and starts pre-operative exercises. People undermine exercises before surgery, but in reality, they help a lot, to recover quicker after surgery. Other things is, if you have done the exercises before surgery, you will be familiar with exercises and will also be able to see the difference in strength after surgery.

You will need proper rehab after surgery to recover and get better. Dont undermine anything and stick to, what you will be told.

Dont expect anything (as you said) and if you get good results, keep smiling.

Wow - thank you for the advice and i will take that on board. I feel I'm running out of time to find a physio though now?? What is the best way to source a really good physio?? And what is best way to determine how good they are?? Letters after their name?? I assume its referrals but i don't know anyone personally around my way that has used one.

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by STEVIEHOOPS

I can hugely sympathise with this. I've been quietly suffering with both my knees for years now. Im 41 years old and consider myself fairly fit. My problems started from both rugby and football and then from around my mid twenties i got heavily into weight training, dabbled with steroids and started lifting far too much weight for my size/frame etc. I always knew i had slightly weak knees - my left knee being the worst - and certainly years of snowboarding and jumping off motorbikes at 100+mph on track didn't help either. Then a few years ago my knees, again left being the far worse, would often lock and i would collapse to the floor. I then started running and training for the London Marathon and although i trained properly and never pushed it too far, my knees often gave me a lot of grief and running the marathon itself just finished them off. Ive now got to a stage where i can't run at all and even if i run 200 yards for a bus i will suffer for days after. Even spirited walking leaves me in a lot of pain. So, i had an MRi scan around 2 months ago on my left knee and it revealed a huge tear in the cartilage. Im having an operation on March 12th but I'm not very optimistic. Im guessing all they will do is remove the flappy bits of cartilage that the tear has left and smooth over what is left if anything. I also take Glucosamine and Chondroitin but I'm not convinced it does much. Good luck either way.

Steve my left knee kept giving way after I snapped my ACL falling of a roof, the MRI revealed a torn meniscus, once this was trimmed the problem was solved.

I cannot emphasize how important physio is after surgery. The more time you devote to it the better your recovery will be. I do a lot of biking now as its low impact on the knee and I can stay in shape.

I had an ACL which was fantastic.

After the operation you will lose all strength in that leg, so it's key to build up the muscle again. For me I avoid leg extensions.

It's all about the physio.

Good luck.

[JLR1969]

Originally Posted by STEVIEHOOPS

Wow - thank you for the advice and i will take that on board. I feel I'm running out of time to find a physio though now?? What is the best way to source a really good physio?? And what is best way to determine how good they are?? Letters after their name?? I assume its referrals but i don't know anyone personally around my way that has used one.

Your private medical insurance will recomend a physio and cover the cost. I am assuming that you are going private.

[Hoops]

No fella - its NHS I'm afraid!! But take your point on physio - thanks again for advice and info!!