M5POST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   M5POST - BMW M5 Forum > F10 M5 Forum > M5 versus...

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-27-2013, 01:25 PM   #1
catpat8000
Lieutenant
United_States
34
Rep
421
Posts

Drives: 2019 M5
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Have you driven a 2014 E63?

I am interested in getting a 2014 M5 w/ZCP.

I spent some time in a friend's car and I like it. Before I take the plunge, I'd like to look at a 2014 E63 sAMG. The AWD appeals to me but in pictures the car is, well, let's say uninspired in the looks dept.

They're also very hard to find so I haven't seen one, never mind driven one.
Has anyone here spent some time in one? Any thoughts?

Pat
Appreciate 0
      09-27-2013, 02:17 PM   #2
stealth.pilot
Knight Commander
stealth.pilot's Avatar
United Kingdom
554
Rep
5,948
Posts

Drives: 2014 911 Turbo S
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Buckhead

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by catpat8000 View Post
I am interested in getting a 2014 M5 w/ZCP.

I spent some time in a friend's car and I like it. Before I take the plunge, I'd like to look at a 2014 E63 sAMG. The AWD appeals to me but in pictures the car is, well, let's say uninspired in the looks dept.

They're also very hard to find so I haven't seen one, never mind driven one.
Has anyone here spent some time in one? Any thoughts?

Pat
The E63 is somewhat ugly, and the fit and finish seems cheap. However the AWD nature of the car probably makes it much easier to drive than the M5. Acording the Nurburgring times, the M5 base is faster than the E63 S-AMG. The M5 CP should be a clearly faster. The one warning on the M5 is that it is a harder car to drive. Much harder than the M3. It spins easily in MDM mode - It's less forgiving and the power exceeds the ability of the chassis. This means you can't just go around flooring the throttle and expecting MDM to take care of it. You have to drive the car with finesse. The E63 will be easier to drive and extract results from.
__________________
2022 Mercedes-Benz EQS 580
2020 Mercedes-Benz GLE 450
Ordered: EQS580, BMW IX, Lucid Air Touring, Corvette Stingray
Appreciate 0
      09-27-2013, 02:20 PM   #3
stealth.pilot
Knight Commander
stealth.pilot's Avatar
United Kingdom
554
Rep
5,948
Posts

Drives: 2014 911 Turbo S
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Buckhead

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
__________________
2022 Mercedes-Benz EQS 580
2020 Mercedes-Benz GLE 450
Ordered: EQS580, BMW IX, Lucid Air Touring, Corvette Stingray
Appreciate 0
      09-27-2013, 08:18 PM   #4
turbolag
is nonexistent with N/A
turbolag's Avatar
21
Rep
1,126
Posts

Drives: .
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: .

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
That front reminds me of a no line base 3 series.
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2013, 01:34 AM   #5
Leveraged Sellout
Private
5
Rep
72
Posts

Drives: 1988 535i
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Milwaukee

iTrader: (0)

E63 is beautiful outside, makes a wonderful noise, and is even more powerful. And faster. But that interior...it's not my style personally. I like VAG/BMW interiors much more usually. And COMMAND is a joke right now. But the E63 is a nice car, to be sure. Only way to make a decision is to drive one of each.
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2013, 03:02 AM   #6
A_
Private
A_'s Avatar
248
Rep
97
Posts

Drives: M8, G70
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Bohemian Grove

iTrader: (0)


Appreciate 0
      09-28-2013, 06:16 AM   #7
Phatcat
Lieutenant Colonel
750
Rep
1,857
Posts

Drives: BMW M5, X5M
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Asia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot
Quote:
Originally Posted by catpat8000 View Post
I am interested in getting a 2014 M5 w/ZCP.

I spent some time in a friend's car and I like it. Before I take the plunge, I'd like to look at a 2014 E63 sAMG. The AWD appeals to me but in pictures the car is, well, let's say uninspired in the looks dept.

They're also very hard to find so I haven't seen one, never mind driven one.
Has anyone here spent some time in one? Any thoughts?

Pat
The E63 is somewhat ugly, and the fit and finish seems cheap. However the AWD nature of the car probably makes it much easier to drive than the M5. Acording the Nurburgring times, the M5 base is faster than the E63 S-AMG. The M5 CP should be a clearly faster. The one warning on the M5 is that it is a harder car to drive. Much harder than the M3. It spins easily in MDM mode - It's less forgiving and the power exceeds the ability of the chassis. This means you can't just go around flooring the throttle and expecting MDM to take care of it. You have to drive the car with finesse. The E63 will be easier to drive and extract results from.
M5 is faster around the ring according to manufacturer claimed time (BMW claimed 7:55), which MB doesn't have one.

If we use third party time (Sport Auto), both the CLS63 (8:03) and the E63 S (7:55) are faster than the M5 (8:05).
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2013, 10:14 AM   #8
catpat8000
Lieutenant
United_States
34
Rep
421
Posts

Drives: 2019 M5
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by A_ View Post

Nice find. Notice as the e63 pulls away in the first video, the M5 traction control light is flashing all through first and into second. Once it stops flashing, the M5 starts to reel him in.

Pat
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2013, 10:22 AM   #9
quintics
Private First Class
23
Rep
101
Posts

Drives: Sapphire Black F10 M5 2013
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Sudbury, MA

iTrader: (0)

I dont' get how the M5 is that much faster than the E63... I mean the E63 does have more power and a lot more torque
__________________
Cars: 2000 Lexus LX470, 2000 Mercedes E430 4MATIC, 2005 Toyota Camry LE, 2013 F10 M5
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2013, 10:29 AM   #10
stealth.pilot
Knight Commander
stealth.pilot's Avatar
United Kingdom
554
Rep
5,948
Posts

Drives: 2014 911 Turbo S
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Buckhead

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by quintics View Post
I dont' get how the M5 is that much faster than the E63... I mean the E63 does have more power and a lot more torque
BMW lies about how much power the car really puts out. The M5 is a 620hp car.
__________________
2022 Mercedes-Benz EQS 580
2020 Mercedes-Benz GLE 450
Ordered: EQS580, BMW IX, Lucid Air Touring, Corvette Stingray
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2013, 10:36 AM   #11
Phatcat
Lieutenant Colonel
750
Rep
1,857
Posts

Drives: BMW M5, X5M
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Asia

iTrader: (0)

E63 S is AWD, so it will have more drivetrain loss in HP, M5 should be faster over 100 mph.
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2013, 11:21 AM   #12
formgen99
Second Lieutenant
formgen99's Avatar
United_States
19
Rep
216
Posts

Drives: 2014 535i
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Albuquerque, NM

iTrader: (2)

What about the S6? It beat both of those cars in head to head comparison.
__________________
2014 535i


Past Vehicles
2011.5 E92 M3, 2009 E93 M3, 2008 335xi, 2004 Mustang GT,....
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2013, 12:04 PM   #13
Falcao
Private First Class
Falcao's Avatar
4
Rep
108
Posts

Drives: E60 M5
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Baltimore

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by formgen View Post
What about the S6? It beat both of those cars in head to head comparison.

You must be joking yea Audi S6 is not even a direct competitor for M5 or E63 AMG. RS6 is closer car in terms of performance. Straight line and track E63 AMG and M5 murders Audi S6.

The rag magazine review (Car and Driver) was purely subjective choice, intangibles and what not. Win for S6 was definitely not performance related because S6 is underpowered and not even in same class price and prestige than E63 or M5. Sure go ahead and buy S6 because Car and Driver said it is better
__________________
"I am ripper, tearer, slasher, gouger. I am the teeth in the darkness! The talons in the night! Mine is strength! And lust! And power! "

Last edited by Falcao; 09-28-2013 at 12:09 PM..
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2013, 12:11 PM   #14
Leveraged Sellout
Private
5
Rep
72
Posts

Drives: 1988 535i
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Milwaukee

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
BMW lies about how much power the car really puts out. The M5 is a 620hp car.
Those videos, more than anything, would seem to support that. We know the E63S is a very fast car...the fact that the M5 embarrasses it at high speed shows the real story. Isn't the M5 heavier than the awd E63 as well?
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2013, 12:43 PM   #15
catpat8000
Lieutenant
United_States
34
Rep
421
Posts

Drives: 2019 M5
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by quintics View Post
I dont' get how the M5 is that much faster than the E63... I mean the E63 does have more power and a lot more torque
M5 ZCP and E63 sAMG have the same power: 575hp vs 577hp.

Torque is irrelevant in a drag race. The two things that matter are power and weight.

The cars are similar in weight so the following are likely true:
- M5 makes more wheel horsepower
- E63 parasitic losses are higher (AWD, planetary gear transmission)

Pat
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2013, 12:47 PM   #16
stealth.pilot
Knight Commander
stealth.pilot's Avatar
United Kingdom
554
Rep
5,948
Posts

Drives: 2014 911 Turbo S
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Buckhead

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by catpat8000 View Post
M5 ZCP and E63 sAMG have the same power: 575hp vs 577hp.

Torque is irrelevant in a drag race. The two things that matter are power and weight.

The cars are similar in weight so the following are likely true:
- M5 makes more wheel horsepower
- E63 parasitic losses are higher (AWD, planetary gear transmission)

Pat
That car is not an M5 Competition Package. It's a standard M5. I can tell because the steering wheel design is either 2012 or 2013 and ZCP wasn't available in those years.
__________________
2022 Mercedes-Benz EQS 580
2020 Mercedes-Benz GLE 450
Ordered: EQS580, BMW IX, Lucid Air Touring, Corvette Stingray
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2013, 12:55 PM   #17
stealth.pilot
Knight Commander
stealth.pilot's Avatar
United Kingdom
554
Rep
5,948
Posts

Drives: 2014 911 Turbo S
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Buckhead

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftc120 View Post
Are you sure the pre lci non comp. package makes 620 hp ? And we're did those numbers come from ?
Auto sport and motor did a dyno test of three cars in a comparo.

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=679580
__________________
2022 Mercedes-Benz EQS 580
2020 Mercedes-Benz GLE 450
Ordered: EQS580, BMW IX, Lucid Air Touring, Corvette Stingray
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2013, 04:58 PM   #18
catpat8000
Lieutenant
United_States
34
Rep
421
Posts

Drives: 2019 M5
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
Auto sport and motor did a dyno test of three cars in a comparo.

http://f10.m5post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=679580
I found a bunch of road tests of the 2013 M5, all with a trap speed between 121 and 123 mph.

Calculating the hp needed to produce those trap speeds with a weight of 4300 lbs comes in around 620hp.

Taking the claimed hp (560) and the weight (4300 lbs), the car ought to trap around 116-117.

So my hp/acceleration model is mis-calibrated or the car seems like it's under-rated.

Cool.

Pat
Appreciate 0
      09-28-2013, 08:49 PM   #19
Phatcat
Lieutenant Colonel
750
Rep
1,857
Posts

Drives: BMW M5, X5M
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Asia

iTrader: (0)

Sport Auto did a dyno on E63 S and it came in with 604 HP, FYI.

While we are at it, I pulled put my SA magazine and here are some figures:

E63 S: 0-100km 3.7, 0-160km 7.8, 0-200km 11.9
M5 (pre LCI): 0-100km 4.3, 0-160km 8.7, 0-200km 13.0
New RS6: 0-100km 3.5, 0-160km 7.7, 0-200km 12.1

E63 S: 80-120km (4,5,6 gear) 3.3/4.5/6.6
80-160km (4,5,6 gear) 6.8/9.6/13.0

CLS63 with performance package: 3.2/4.5/6.5 and 6.7/9.4/12.7

M5: 3.5/4.5/5.6 and 7.3/9.6/11.8

RS6: Not available yet but I am sure it will suffer the same fate as the E63 S.

No doubt the CLS63 and the M5 (both RWD) has advantage at higher speed. Just don't race a E63 S (or the new RS7/RS6) from a standing start, hehe.
Appreciate 0
      09-29-2013, 01:23 AM   #20
Mperial
Second Lieutenant
Mperial's Avatar
United_States
49
Rep
280
Posts

Drives: 2016 M3, 2017 X1
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

The litmus test that should be applied here is real world driving.

Also consider that perhaps MB rate their engines properly while M favors the more conservative approach of posting hp/tq numbers which reflect the engine's output in the worst possible conditions. Either way, while I do respect the AMG engine and its note, its appearance puts a hurt on my eyes. In short, there is no way the F10 makes a paltry 60 hp more than the outgoing E60.
Appreciate 0
      09-30-2013, 06:23 PM   #21
Mperial
Second Lieutenant
Mperial's Avatar
United_States
49
Rep
280
Posts

Drives: 2016 M3, 2017 X1
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftc120 View Post
Meaning do you think it makes more or less than 60 hp over the e 60 ?
More. Paltry means insignificant or a very small amount. So, in essence, I am saying that the F10 has much more power than the E60. Probably on the order of 100+ hp more. See stealth's comment from a few days ago.
Appreciate 0
      10-01-2013, 07:44 PM   #22
turbo8765
Captain
61
Rep
776
Posts

Drives: very fast
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: US

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by catpat8000 View Post
I found a bunch of road tests of the 2013 M5, all with a trap speed between 121 and 123 mph.

Calculating the hp needed to produce those trap speeds with a weight of 4300 lbs comes in around 620hp.

Taking the claimed hp (560) and the weight (4300 lbs), the car ought to trap around 116-117.

So my hp/acceleration model is mis-calibrated or the car seems like it's under-rated.

Cool.

Pat
The calculators were developed in a time before DCT's existed and tend to underestimate the performance of DCT equipped cars.

In what test did the F10 trap 123?
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:42 PM.




m5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST