[AviatorBimmer]

What's the general consensus on changing the tranny oil on a steptronic E92 2007? I have 102K miles on my car and I was wondering if this is something I should do as a PM or i should not mess around with it. Last time I spoke with my SA, he said this should NOT be done to our cars.

I know it's not a Bimmer but my son took his 2004 Mini Cooper Base car into a shop to have a new clutch kit installed and when we picked the car up, the mechanic said he went ahead and changed the tranny oil on it because it was heavily saturated with metal particles and needed to be changed. This was last week. Yesterday, my son's tranny is now humming to the point that it sounds louder than the engine itself when in gear!

My gut feeling is that the oil shouldn't have been changed on my son's mini and now the tranny is screwed up. God knows what kind of oil the mechanic put in there too, since apparently it has to be synthetic, per Mini's specs. Do you guys think the mechanic is liable if the tranny is indeed damaged and he changed the oil without our authorization?

[Blackhawk36]

I have a manual 07 335i and I struggle with this. It seems counterintuitive not to change it at some point. My SA fought me on it and I decided not to do it. He said that on cars where they did change it, it tended to cause more problems. Sounds like your son is a good example of that. He said they won't change it on anything with lifetime fluid. They direct you to the parts department to buy fluid yourself and DIY or pay someone to do it.

These cars are interesting. I am at 100k and I am changing my water pump this weekend as PM but not my tranny oil or diff oil. Go figure.

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by AviatorBimmer

What's the general consensus on changing the tranny oil on a steptronic E92 2007? I have 102K miles on my car and I was wondering if this is something I should do as a PM or i should not mess around with it. Last time I spoke with my SA, he said this should NOT be done to our cars.
...

There is no general consensus. In fact, the SA's at dealerships don't even know what BMW recommends: which is to change the tranny fluid at 100K (they backed off the "lifetime" recco some time ago.) Many schools of thought:
1) Change it earlier than 100K (many are doing it at 60K)
2) Don't flush.
3) Flush
4) Change at 100K
5) Changing it at 100K or more loosens up contaminants and will toast the valve body.
6) If the tranny is shifting poorly, change it: might fix it, won't hurt it.

If the mechanic put the wrong lube oil in, he's liable. But if there were that many filings in there, it was probably going out anyway.

[Augster]

I'm at 109k and have been contemplating an ATF and filter change. However, due to the hassle of using a very specific fluid plus the very complex method of topping off the fluid (I did the procedure on my E46 AT and it's not fun), if I do decide to get it done, it will be a reputable local transmission shop that rebuilt my E46 AT, which drained my bank account by $3,200 (though it did come with a 2-year/24,000-mile nation-wide warranty).

But after hearing about these issues, I'm less inclined to do so.

[Blackhawk36]

Originally Posted by floydarogers

There is no general consensus. In fact, the SA's at dealerships don't even know what BMW recommends: which is to change the tranny fluid at 100K (they backed off the "lifetime" recco some time ago.) Many schools of thought:
1) Change it earlier than 100K (many are doing it at 60K)
2) Don't flush.
3) Flush
4) Change at 100K
5) Changing it at 100K or more loosens up contaminants and will toast the valve body.
6) If the tranny is shifting poorly, change it: might fix it, won't hurt it.

If the mechanic put the wrong lube oil in, he's liable. But if there were that many filings in there, it was probably going out anyway.

Floyd, do you know if they recommend 100k fluid change for manuals (6sp) or differentials?

[AdamN52]

I tend to think of it the same way I do for high-mileage engines:

If you take an engine with very high mileage and try to clean up all the deposits/carbon/gunk - you'll end up doing harm because some of that crap was probably helping to keep things sealed up and holding compression.

On the other hand, if you regularly keep things clean/flushed from the start then by all means keep it up - things will probably last longer than if you didn't.

I think it just depends how worn you think your tranny is. If it's real beat up, but working okay I'd just leave it alone. You don't stand to gain much unless you're prepared to face a rebuild if things go south.

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by Blackhawk36

Floyd, do you know if they recommend 100k fluid change for manuals (6sp) or differentials?

AFAIK, they don't. I personally do it along with the ATF.

[AviatorBimmer]

Ok, I just came back from the shop where I had a heated argument with the shop owner. Basically, he is trying to insinuate that the tranny's old oil had a lot of metal in it and that was the reason for the tranny failing now.

I told him that up until the day he worked on it, the tranny was running perfectly, granted it needed a new clutch.

He did confirm he used conventional oil and not the synthetic oil that Mini states must be used but was still trying to shift blame away from himself, as expected.

My argument is that first, he never called me or my son to ask if we wanted the oil changed on the tranny. He went ahead and changed it on his own without our prior authorization. The work requested was to have a new clutch kit installed, nothing else.

Second, he used the wrong oil and now the tranny sounds louder than the engine. Sounds like a turbine engine spooling up, everytime you accelerate the vehicle with the tranny engaged.

Do I have a case? Is he responsible and liable, since he admitted using the wrong oil and changing it without our consent?

[fravel]

Originally Posted by AviatorBimmer

Do I have a case? Is he responsible and liable, since he admitted using the wrong oil and changing it without our consent?

Maybe? Did he show you a record of his work and have you sign off on it when you took delivery of the car?

[AviatorBimmer]

Originally Posted by fravel

Maybe? Did he show you a record of his work and have you sign off on it when you took delivery of the car?

No, only paperwork given I believe was a receipt for the amount he charged. This is a small, indy shop. Not a dealership or major auto repair shop. More like a mom and pop auto repair shop. I guess you get what you pay for. Most reputable shops were quoting us $1,000 in labor to replace the clutch. This guy only charged us $550.

[fravel]

I'd say you have a case then. Tell him you want the fluid changed back to OEM spec at the very least.

[AviatorBimmer]

Originally Posted by fravel

I'd say you have a case then. Tell him you want the fluid changed back to OEM spec at the very least.

oh ok, thx for the advice. I guess that would be something to do.

[fravel]

Originally Posted by AviatorBimmer

oh ok, thx for the advice. I guess that would be something to do.

Being a small shop doesn't absolve him of the responsibility to do the work correctly. When was this work performed? You said the tranny started acting funny yesterday - has there been a lot of driving done on the new fluid?

[AviatorBimmer]

Originally Posted by fravel

Being a small shop doesn't absolve him of the responsibility to do the work correctly. When was this work performed? You said the tranny started acting funny yesterday - has there been a lot of driving done on the new fluid?

The work was done last week and the noise started sometime around Monday of this week. I want to say the noise started less than a week since the fluid was changed. Mini calls for 75W-90 GL-4 synthetic oil to be used and he said he used some 50W conventional oil.

[fravel]

Originally Posted by AviatorBimmer

The work was done last week and the noise started sometime around Monday of this week. I want to say the noise started less than a week since the fluid was changed. Mini calls for 75W-90 GL-4 synthetic oil to be used and he said he used some 50W conventional oil.

I'd say my vote goes to making your mechanic replace the fluid (at his cost, of course) and then see what happens. If problem goes away then you got a free fluid change, if the problem doesn't go away I'd ask for a new transmission with the threat of legal action.

Originally Posted by AviatorBimmer

Mini calls for 75W-90 GL-4 synthetic oil to be used and he said he used some 50W conventional oil.

[shadow191]

Keep in mind that automatic transmission fluid and manual do different things. Manual transmission fluid is just lubricant like engine oil. Automatic transmission fluid is part of what transmits power to the drivetrain before the torque converter locks. So the issues with flushing automatic transmissions are not directly comparable to manual. Manual transmission fluid changes are more like oil changes, it's lubricant. Auto fluid changes are different since the fluid applies viscous forces and if the properties are drastically changed by flushing the system, you may get transmission issues like slip. I've personally never had issues with changing the fluid in other cars even w/ lifetime fluid, but I don't have any experience on my BMW yet. Maybe next year. But someone always has a story about how it will destroy your transmission.

FWIW, seems like the mechanic in your situation put in too lightweight an oil. Surprised he would do that since 75W-90 is pretty standard in a lot of applications.

[roundle]

Originally Posted by AviatorBimmer

Ok, I just came back from the shop where I had a heated argument with the shop owner. Basically, he is trying to insinuate that the tranny's old oil had a lot of metal in it and that was the reason for the tranny failing now.

I told him that up until the day he worked on it, the tranny was running perfectly, granted it needed a new clutch.

He did confirm he used conventional oil and not the synthetic oil that Mini states must be used but was still trying to shift blame away from himself, as expected.

My argument is that first, he never called me or my son to ask if we wanted the oil changed on the tranny. He went ahead and changed it on his own without our prior authorization. The work requested was to have a new clutch kit installed, nothing else.

Second, he used the wrong oil and now the tranny sounds louder than the engine. Sounds like a turbine engine spooling up, everytime you accelerate the vehicle with the tranny engaged.

Do I have a case? Is he responsible and liable, since he admitted using the wrong oil and changing it without our consent?

Just have the proper fluid put in the car. The guy was trying to do you a favor. The fluid needed to be changed. Just have the right stuff put in and consider this exercise a "flush".

FYI: The Honda Factory method of "Flushing" ATF is to drain the oil, put in new oil, drive for 10 miles, then repeat the process. Most Honda/Acura autos do not have serviceable filters.

I change my MTF every 30K. It's cheap, easy, and always looks like crap about 30K miles. I've done this in all my cars. I've never had a transmission problem...

Lastly, I think that most people are affaid of changing fluid as they hear stories about repais that are needed shortly after the fluid is changed. 9/10, I suspect that people get the fluid changed because they are trying to fix a problem (slipping, clunking, etc) that has been caused by not changing fluid in the first place.

[floydarogers]

Originally Posted by Blackhawk36

Floyd, do you know if they recommend 100k fluid change for manuals (6sp) or differentials?

BMW doesn't mention it AFAIK. I had my diff's lube changed at 60K (with my auto tranny).

[tphss]

Other than what is recommended or not, I don't see logically how flushing any fluid as preventive maintenance will do any harm. Assuming of course the correct fluid is used and there is no user error in the process.

Originally Posted by tphss

Other than what is recommended or not, I don't see logically how flushing any fluid as preventive maintenance will do any harm. Assuming of course the correct fluid is used and there is no user error in the process.

With a MT you are correct. With autos though, it's a whole different ball game...

[Mark e90]

I done a lot of research on this and I found the official service schedule from ZF who recommend servicing the box between 65k-75k miles. Think the horror stories from problems after servicing mainly come from GM trans or ZF boxes that are serviced incorrectly.