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      06-11-2014, 08:32 PM   #1
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DC Fast Charge Useless in US

Has anyone else noticed that BMWs DC fast charge uses a plug that is non-standard and nonexistent in the US? I got it for free as part of the electronaut package but if I was actually paying the $700 I would be rightfully angry. Its essentially useless.

Ive dug up some rumors of BMW making an adaptor from their plug to Tesla Supercharger plugs being on sale in Germany. But none of my contacts at BMW NA know anything about it.


So does anyone know whats going on?
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      06-11-2014, 11:00 PM   #2
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BMWUSA, according to my dealer, at least as of a couple of weeks ago, has not come up with a recommended DC fast chargers for their dealers, but there are a few around and the i3 can be charged with those available. If you have the power available, and want to spend the money, there's at least one available for sale for about $3k (which is cheap for those things).

My guess is that you'll start to see them show up in the next 6-months. The final spec on the industry standard isn't all that old (last year sometime), and it takes awhile for things to be designed, tested, and produced, then delivered and installed.

My feeling is, since it is unlikely to be an easy or cheap retrofit (if possible at all, at least reasonably), the DC-fast charge option over the life of the car is a useful addition. I may be wrong, but I'm sure there would be times it would be nice to be able to do it, and you can't if you don't have that option installed.

There was a press release of the first one in CA, I think in Santa Monica maybe 6-weeks ago. They're coming...not that many around. But, then, look at how fast the level 2 units are now popping up...far more of them in just the last year than there were. As more and more vehicles show up with the capability, it will make sense for companies to install them. It's sort of the chicken or the egg situation.
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      06-12-2014, 01:22 AM   #3
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I think you will find that it meets the new standard - it was not secret!
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      06-12-2014, 08:52 AM   #4
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The US uses J1772 and that was in flux to add the DC fast charge capability until last year. As I understand it, Europe uses a different standard, and is one reason, other than the range, that the i3 isn't available for US customers for European delivery - the plugs don't match, for even the L1, L2 charge stations.
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      06-12-2014, 01:16 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSI3 View Post
I think you will find that it meets the new standard - it was not secret!
The new standard doesn't help me when the current use standard in the us is the Tesla design and I cant find a single example of the BMW standard in the new York area.

Like I said. Dc fast charge was free for me so I didn't research it. I'm just wondering why there's no adaptor to make it work on the supercharger network
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      06-12-2014, 01:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadnashuanh View Post
The US uses J1772 and that was in flux to add the DC fast charge capability until last year. As I understand it, Europe uses a different standard, and is one reason, other than the range, that the i3 isn't available for US customers for European delivery - the plugs don't match, for even the L1, L2 charge stations.
Correct. J1772 is an SAE standard. My active E had it. Doesn't change the fact that this BMW plug doesn't have any charge support in the us.
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      06-12-2014, 04:00 PM   #7
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A standard J1772 plug AND the newest version with the DC fast charge capability (that was what was added last year) will both fit in the i3 IF it has the DC fast charging option. That does not mean if you have the DC fast charge option, you can't use a standard J1772 Level 2 unit which has the same jack as the level 1 units.

It's a crap shoot...don't buy the option and next year they all start popping up everywhere like weeds, and you are out of luck. Being on the leading edge has its problems and questions.
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      06-12-2014, 05:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadnashuanh View Post
A standard J1772 plug AND the newest version with the DC fast charge capability (that was what was added last year) will both fit in the i3 IF it has the DC fast charging option. That does not mean if you have the DC fast charge option, you can't use a standard J1772 Level 2 unit which has the same jack as the level 1 units.

It's a crap shoot...don't buy the option and next year they all start popping up everywhere like weeds, and you are out of luck. Being on the leading edge has its problems and questions.
I understand all that. Ive owned an electric car for nearly three years and my i3 for two weeks. Also youre missing my point. That is to say - that since the BMW plug (new standard) chargers dont exist in this country currently they should supply me with an adaptor that works on the established network (Tesla Plug).

Tesla is the company that has actually put money into a DC network, so yes, Id like to be able to use the five superchargers that are on my route to and from work.
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      06-12-2014, 08:38 PM   #9
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What makes you feel Tesla should support a BMW? Tesla puts their superchargers in to support their model S...they could care less about others. Now, some of their stations also have J1772 connections which would allow others to use it, but at the level 2 interface, not fast DC (at least from what I can find). For a Tesla to use the (much bigger) network of J1772 charge points out there, they need to use an adapter, since they do not have a J1772 connection on their vehicles (who knows, that may change now that those are starting to be built out).. Most of the rest of the EVs now being built or planned to be built in for the USA are going to the same system as BMW selected for the i3 (and forthcoming i8). The signaling to let a Tesla use their supercharger network is not standard J1772.
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      06-13-2014, 01:20 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jadnashuanh View Post
What makes you feel Tesla should support a BMW? Tesla puts their superchargers in to support their model S...they could care less about others.
Not really ... Actually the talks between Tesla & BMW are in progress & I'm sure the fruits of those talks will be realized sooner than anybody imagines.



Quote:
In a conference call discussing the opening of its patents today, Tesla CEO Elon Musk mentioned in passing that BMW had passed through the company's offices earlier in the week:

"For high-speed charging in particular, I think that's a great area for commonality among manufacturers. In fact, the team from BMW was visiting Tesla last night. We talked about potential ways to collaborate, and one of them was on the Supercharging network. We're more than happy to have other manufacturers use our Supercharging network and / or to build superchargers and install them, and then maybe have some sort of cross-use agreement."

Now, BMW spokesman Kenn Sparks has confirmed the meeting. "Both companies are strongly committed to the success of electro-mobility and discussed how to further strengthen the development of electro-mobility on an international level," he says.

Musk suggested that the two companies discussed a variety of issues — not just Superchargers — but the rapid growth of Tesla's high-speed charging network is certainly one of the elephants in the room. The charging system that Tesla uses is incompatible with the standard used by effectively every other automaker; Musk has long defended it as being technically superior and better looking, but it's left the nascent EV market with a critical schism that divides already limited resources for expanding infrastructure. With this week's patent moves, other manufacturers have a new opportunity to back Tesla's system at little cost. It's an option that has apparently piqued BMW's interest.
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      06-13-2014, 09:57 AM   #11
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Not really ... Actually the talks between Tesla & BMW are in progress & I'm sure the fruits of those talks will be realized sooner than anybody imagines.
Exactly. Elon Musk has said many times that the supercharger network is for the benefit of all EV owners. Also Tesla opening up all their patents confirms that.



Also is there any more to that article? Never mind. Found it on the verge. That's all the article said.

Last edited by BrokenVert; 06-13-2014 at 10:48 AM..
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      06-13-2014, 11:52 AM   #12
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To work to charge J1772 compliant vehicles at a Tesla supercharger station would probably only require a logic board and the appropriate plug/cable or adapter. But, when, or if that will happen is anyone's guess. In the meantime, there are a few DC fast charging stations being installed that meet the J1772 standards, and if you have an i3 with the DC fast charging option, you can use them. I fully expect more of them to show up as the sales of vehicles that can use them increase. I expect all of the BMW dealers will probably put one in once BMWUSA settles on one they like and meets their design goals. Considering deliveries of the i3 in the USA only started in the last couple of months, it's a bit early.

Maybe BMW will make a deal with Tesla. Unfortunately for me, none of their chargers are around in the path I'd be likely to take at this time, but certainly, if yours takes you there, it would be nice to use them.

Considering that the i3 is designed as a city car, being able to charge at an L2 unit while shopping, or working, with the slower charging rates seems a bigger priority than DC fast charging and those seem to be growing in leaps and bounds.

Time will tell. I think you'll miss the boat if you do not choose that option on the i3 over the next couple of years, though. Sort of like air bags...you may not want them until you need them, but in that situation, the feds mandate they be there so you don't' have a choice!
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      06-15-2014, 07:15 PM   #13
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If BMW makes some kind of deal with Tesla for Supercharger access (and I don't believe that will come to fruition), it will be a very expensive one. Tesla currently chargers their own customers $2,000 for Supercharger access, what do you think they would charge BMW? Probably $3,000+ per vehicle. BMW would then also need to manufacture an adapter so the car could even connect with the Supercharger stations. It just doesn't make sense to me and I cannot see it ever happening. What I can see happening is BMW making a deal with Tesla to install CCS DCQC stations on Tesla Supercharger locations. The power is already there and the locations are already leased.

The CCS roll-out will likely be slow, just as CHAdeMO stations were, but now in the past year or so they are really picking up. When Nissan launched the LEAF in 2010 there were no CHAdeMO stations, yet many people ordered the option when they got their cars and most are very happy now that they did because there are nearly 600 CHAdeMO stations in the US. There are less then 10 working public CCS stations now but the i3 has only just launched and is the first volume production EV to use the new SAE-endorsed standard. This will take time, but for only $700, the CCS option is a good deal to future proof your i3, even if you can't use it right now. If you are leasing you may pass, but if you are buying in my opinion you really should get it. Selling it down the road will be much easier with the DCQC option.
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      06-15-2014, 08:27 PM   #14
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Well at least the i3 and the Tesla S use the same standard electrons. Thank God.
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      06-16-2014, 10:55 AM   #15
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Well at least the i3 and the Tesla S use the same standard electrons. Thank God.
Exactly Efthreeoh. If they did decide to make a Tesla to CCS adapter, it likely wouldn't be nearly as complicated to as expensive as the Tesla to CHAdeMO adapter is.
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      06-16-2014, 11:48 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by tommolog View Post
Exactly Efthreeoh. If they did decide to make a Tesla to CCS adapter, it likely wouldn't be nearly as complicated to as expensive as the Tesla to CHAdeMO adapter is.
Considering the difference in latitude between Palo Alto and Munch, there could be adaptability issues with Elon’s Solar City power stations not working well in Deutschland.
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      06-18-2014, 12:31 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeSI3 View Post
I think you will find that it meets the new standard - it was not secret!
nailed it
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