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10-08-2024
Although the Neue Klasse X5 EV's will reportedly support V2H (vehicle-to-home) bidirectional charging, the X5 PHEV's released up to now do not. In an emergency situation I would like to have a way to connect a charger to my 2024 X5 50e to charge my home system using the energy stored in the high-voltage (HV) battery.

I should mention at the outset that I'm not interested in putting the car in Sport mode and running the ICE for hours to keep the alternator running and Drive Ready mode active. I already have a generator that will produce electrical energy from gasoline much more efficiently than my car will. Instead I want to use the energy stored in the HV battery without running the ICE.

I'm not sure if this is even possible, but if it is, it would presumably be done by either
1. Connecting a charger to the HV battery directly, or

2. Connecting it to the 12V battery's terminals and extracting energy as the car's battery-management system uses the HV battery to replace the energy being extracted.
I have so little understanding of the car's electrical systems that I have no idea of how method 1 could be implemented. I'd welcome any comments from anyone who does have that understanding.

I can though conceive of how method 2 could be used. The easiest method would be if I could connect my charger to the car's 12V battery, connect the charger's output to my home battery, then walk into the house and let the HV battery charge my home system via the 12V battery terminals.

Of course once I exit the car it will enter the Idle mode, where it will at least trickle-charge the 12V battery. That's why the manual tells drivers to make sure the HV battery is fully charged if the vehicle is going to be parked for an extended period of time, like in an airport parking lot.

But just how much current can the HV battery actually deliver to the 12V terminals in the Idle mode? I'm guessing that it would not be very far above trickle-charge current. Again, I'd love to get a response from anyone who knows.

What about in the Drive Ready (DR) mode? I'm guessing that in the DR mode the HV battery will charge the 12V battery at a much higher amperage, since in that mode the car has to be capable of doing a lot of things requiring 12 volts. Does anyone know how much current the HV battery can deliver to the 12V terminals in the DR mode?

Just as I don't want to run the ICE for hours while my home battery charges, I also don't want to sit in the car for hours to keep the car in DR mode so that the HV battery can charge my home system. But I don't know of any way to walk away from the car and have it remain in Drive Ready mode unless the ICE is running. Nor do I know how to keep it in Standby mode, and who knows whether the HV battery will charge the 12V terminals in that mode?

So clearly I've got no answers but lots of questions. Let me summarize them here.

1. How much current, if any, can be drawn from the high-voltage battery at the 12v battery's terminals when the car is in Idle mode?

2. Same question for the Standby and Drive Ready modes.

3. Is there any way to walk away from the car and have it remain in Drive-ready mode, so as to take advantage of the presumably higher current available in that mode?

4. Has anyone tried anything like this?
10-08-2024
Don't even try it, use your generator. ;)

As an aside, the X5 EV will not be a Neue Klasse vehicle.
10-08-2024
Using the X5 PHEV to power your home is not currently possible. Consider though, that the EV motor can produce lots of HP, and 1HP=745.7W. Now, there’s a time limit at that maximum output, but the power available is considerable.

It would be nice if we could use the HV battery like what’s available say on the Ford electric pickup, but it’s not there yet. They’ve been talking about V2G or H for a while now, but it’s generally not been widely implemented. I think I’d read somewhere that Japan was (has?) set that as a requirement (eventually?). Not here.
10-08-2024
The extended range lightning battery is 130kwh, vs the 25 of the 50e. That lightning can function as a 9600W generator for 3 days. That's about half the power needed for a whole home generator, and 3 days of run time. Your 50e would do 20% of that.

Buy a generator, and a few cans of gas, and you'll be a lot happier.
10-08-2024
There are few EV’s on the market that are equipped for “bidirectional charging”, and even if your EV supports it, you will still have to pay sever thousand for parts/labor to install it in your home to accept the bidirectional charging. And a major con is your car is obviously not drivable while serving your house as a generator. What if you need to make a critical supply run during an emergency while your family shelters in place at home? To me, the practicality of implementing this technology is limited and not worth the investment.

If you have solar, consider upgrading to a battery bank for home backup. You could also install a failover/transfer switch and you could run any generator you want (battery, diesel, propane, natural gas). There are also permanent natural gas failover generators… Kohler makes some really good ones for example. All these options add value to your home (if you care about that sort of thing).

Here’s an example of what some are paying to power their home with a car. In my opinion, I think it’s a complete joke that people will pay thousands of dollars to immobilize themselves during a power outage.

https://www.cybertruckownersclub.com/forum/threads/powershare-install-price-value.13621/

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-ford-f-150-lightning-yearlong-review-update-1-sunrun-backup-power/
10-08-2024
Totally agree. You can get a ~10kW generator, tri fuel, for well below $1000. don't mess with your 50e. It is not design to do this. Even if you have proper EV for this, the cost of getting bidirectional setup will easily be upward of $5000 today
10-08-2024
Won't this also require that you install a hydraulic lift in your garage to ensure your EV remains elevated above the flood water? I'd fire up a gasoline portable generator in my kitchen before trying to power my house from an EV (but don't do this either!). Better yet, just evacuate.
10-08-2024
explain8234's user avatarexplain8234
straight up no. 50e is not designed to do this! you said it yourself: “i have so little understanding of the car's electrical systems…” yet still entertaining the idea to try it?! for one, its 12V battery doesn’t have the C rating to handle the load a home system would require

way to think resourcefully, but no offense, this was a st00pid idea… :bonk:
10-08-2024
During these episodes of natural disasters, the media always reports on the "millions who have lost electric power", and our immediate reaction is catastrophic damage to the power distribution system. This does occur, but in most cases, power companies preemptively shut off power so that downed power lines don't create even greater problems. Regardless of how you source backup power to your home, do you really want to be walking around in a couple inches of water flipping power on and off to your appliances?
10-08-2024
streborx wrote
During these episodes of natural disasters, the media always reports on the "millions who have lost electric power", and our immediate reaction is catastrophic damage to the power distribution system. This does occur, but in most cases, power companies preemptively shut off power so that downed power lines don't create even greater problems. Regardless of how you source backup power to your home, do you really want to be walking around in a couple inches of water flipping power on and off to your appliances?
streborx wrote
Won't this also require that you install a hydraulic lift in your garage to ensure your EV remains elevated above the flood water? I'd fire up a gasoline portable generator in my kitchen before trying to power my house from an EV (but don't do this either!). Better yet, just evacuate.
It's interesting to see that people are assuming, perhaps because of the hurricane approaching Florida at the time of this writing, that I'm worried about flooding. I do live about half a mile from a river that goes over its banks sometimes, but it would have to rise more than 300 feet for my house to be threatened! No, I don't have to evacuate, and the only hazard I'm trying to address is the loss of the grid.

I appreciate all the thoughtful comments though and will respond soon.
10-08-2024
Where’s that little popcorn eating emoji? This thread’s going to be interesting….
:thumsup: :popcorn:
10-08-2024
explain8234 wrote
It's interesting to see that people are assuming, perhaps because of the hurricane approaching Florida at the time of this writing, that I'm worried about flooding. I do live about half a mile from a river that goes over its banks sometimes, but it would have to rise more than 300 feet for my house to be threatened! No, I don't have to evacuate, and the only hazard I'm trying to address is the loss of the grid.

I appreciate all the thoughtful comments though and will respond soon.
I'm glad you're on high ground, and out of the flood zone. I've seen flood damage up close and personal, and IMO, it's worse than fire damage. I echo the opinions of others -- get a backup generator (I have a Generac 14KW unit that has paid for itself over the years). You might want to install propane as a fuel source -- it has no shelf expiration life like gasoline, and when the power company shuts off the electric, many times the gas company does likewise. Stay safe!
10-08-2024
explain8234 wrote
It's interesting to see that people are assuming, perhaps because of the hurricane approaching Florida at the time of this writing, that I'm worried about flooding. I do live about half a mile from a river that goes over its banks sometimes, but it would have to rise more than 300 feet for my house to be threatened! No, I don't have to evacuate, and the only hazard I'm trying to address is the loss of the grid.

I appreciate all the thoughtful comments though and will respond soon.
The big thing I've taken away from watching my former home in NC be ravaged by a storm is the level of damage water can do is insane. Sections of road that were 10+ feet above the river were washed away leaving 50 foot cliffs down to the new river path. It's crazy, almost unbelievable.

All that said, I'd suggest one of two things. Either a generac whole home generator (preferably with the ability to run off either city gas or a large propane tank, or a dual fuel inverter generator. The generac setups are nice because you can get an automatic transfer switch and not have to do anything, but they're not cheap, and realistically how often do you lose power?

I have pretty minor needs of power in a worst case. 2 fridges, maybe a fan, wouldn't be a bad idea to get a portable AC. Would love to setup a transfer switch for my smaller AC system. I can get a dual fuel generator that runs my needs for under $800. That is a lot more reasonable for a "unlikely event" than $10k plus for a generac whole home setup. Might pick up an M18 Milwaukee inverter too, got a few of those that would be useful to use for smaller devices. Might get the ego fan for use in the house too.
10-19-2024
I appreciate the comments above with their suggestions of things I could/should do instead of trying to access the 25 kWh in the 50e's high-voltage battery. They have helped me clarify my thinking about what I want to do.

I'm not worried about the flooding that streborx mentioned. Although there a river that flows a half mile from my house, it would have to rise over 300 feet before I'd be threatened!

And I do have a 240V generator and a Reliance transfer switch that I can plug it into for powering select circuits from my main panel. I also have a solar generator with 3 kWh of storage that can be plugged into the transfer switch and power the 120V circuits controlled by the switch, albeit for a short time.

So I can envision situations in which I'd appreciate being able to be able to top up the solar generator's storage from the 25 kWh in my car's high-voltage battery. There are several popular chargers that could be connected to the 12V battery's terminals to do this, but I believe that the car would have to be in Drive-Ready mode to get the HV battery to drive the process. So that brings me to one of my original questions, and now the only one I'm really asking here:

How can the car be kept in Drive-Ready mode with no one sitting in the car?

A couple of possibilities -

Gemini offered the surprising solution of turning on Auto Hold before exiting. Needless to say, opening the door immediately puts the car in Standby mode regardless of whether Auto Hold is on or off.

Turning on preconditioning after the door is opened will run the fans and the heat/AC as required but the car remains in Standby mode. As I understand it, the heat and AC are run directly off the HV battery and the fans by the 12V battery, presumably kept charged by the HV battery. But I obviously don't want to run climate control anytime I'm charging my home system from the car.

I've thought about wild solutions like going out the passenger's door, leaving a bucket of sand on the driver's seat and the key fob inside the car. I haven't tried that.

Has anyone heard of other ways of keeping Drive Ready mode activated after exiting the car?
10-19-2024
explain8234 wrote
I appreciate the comments above with their suggestions of things I could/should do instead of trying to access the 25 kWh in the 50e's high-voltage battery. They have helped me clarify my thinking about what I want to do.

I'm not worried about the flooding that streborx mentioned. Although there a river that flows a half mile from my house, it would have to rise over 300 feet before I'd be threatened!

And I do have a 240V generator and a Reliance transfer switch that I can plug it into for powering select circuits from my main panel. I also have a solar generator with 3 kWh of storage that can be plugged into the transfer switch and power the 120V circuits controlled by the switch, albeit for a short time.

So I can envision situations in which I'd appreciate being able to be able to top up the solar generator's storage from the 25 kWh in my car's high-voltage battery. There are several popular chargers that could be connected to the 12V battery's terminals to do this, but I believe that the car would have to be in Drive-Ready mode to get the HV battery to drive the process. So that brings me to one of my original questions, and now the only one I'm really asking here:

How can the car be kept in Drive-Ready mode with no one sitting in the car?

A couple of possibilities -

Gemini offered the surprising solution of turning on Auto Hold before exiting. Needless to say, opening the door immediately puts the car in Standby mode regardless of whether Auto Hold is on or off.

Turning on preconditioning after the door is opened will run the fans and the [...]
You certainly didn’t do proper search. The easiest solution. Get in, bucket driver seat belt behind you,, close door, turn on car. Open door and get out. As long as driver seat belt is buckled, car won’t shut off when open door.

And US 50e don’t get 25kWh. It get 20kWh usable.
10-19-2024
Depending on the power you might require off of the 12vdc system, note that BMW specifically warns about NOT trying to jump start a vehicle with the PHEV…my guess is that the 12vdc power supply is adequate to run the internal stuff, but does not have much excess capacity. The 12VDC accessory sockets are also only rated for 100W, so that’s pretty limiting. Until you get a vehicle specifically designed with V2G, IMHO, you risk damaging the vehicle trying to get a lot of power out of it.
10-19-2024
the dedication has me :bellyroll
10-20-2024
jad03060 wrote
Depending on the power you might require off of the 12vdc system, note that BMW specifically warns about NOT trying to jump start a vehicle with the PHEV…my guess is that the 12vdc power supply is adequate to run the internal stuff, but does not have much excess capacity. The 12VDC accessory sockets are also only rated for 100W, so that’s pretty limiting. Until you get a vehicle specifically designed with V2G, IMHO, you risk damaging the vehicle trying to get a lot of power out of it.
I hadn't read about not using a PHEV to try to jump start another vehicle. I wonder if that's true for the 50e? I can't find anything about it in the 50e's owner's manual. It would be surprising, since according to this post the 50e has an 80Ah, 800A, 800CCA 12V battery - all on the high side for automotive batteries.

Even if it IS true for the 50e that might not be relevant for the situation I'm considering. Jump-starting a car is probably going to require at least 400A from the 12V system. I'm looking at charging a solar generator at, say, 50V and 10A. On the 12V side that would be on the order of a 40A draw - an order of magnitude less than what's required for jump-starting a car.

On my 50e, the power sockets have a 20A fuse, the fans have fuses of 10, 20 and 40A, one of the headlight fuses is 60A and another is 30A. And those are just some of the most easily identifiable ones. There are lots more 30 and 40A fuses as well as scores of small ones. Obviously these aren't the current draws of all the systems and devices that the fuses protect, but these numbers certainly suggest to me that the car could handle an additional 40A load.

I'd welcome others' thoughts on this.
10-20-2024
nZtiZia wrote
the dedication has me :bellyroll
Just consider it an academic exercise then - a thought experiment to determine whether such a thing is possible.:D
10-20-2024
explain8234 wrote
I'd welcome others' thoughts on this.
Asking others about it is fruitless since doing it is not recommended and no one on here has done it. Just try it and let us know how it goes.
10-20-2024
The prohibition on jump starting some other vehicle is in the printed copy…and, I’d be surprised if the 50e was different from the 45e in that aspect.

The user’s manual says the combination of all 12vdc accessory sockets should not exceed 140W, basically 10A at 14v (which is probably what the PS produces)…check yours.
10-20-2024
jad03060 wrote
The prohibition on jump starting some other vehicle is in the printed copy…and, I’d be surprised if the 50e was different from the 45e in that aspect.
I'll check it tomorrow when it's light outside. I can't find it in either the online or pdf versions - only information about jump-starting the 50e itself. Can you tell me what section of the 45e manual it's in?
jad03060 wrote
The user’s manual says the combination of all 12vdc accessory sockets should not exceed 140W, basically 10A at 14v (which is probably what the PS produces)…check yours.
Mine says the same and that makes sense. That circuit is protected by a 20A fuse. 140W at 12V is 11.7A and the standard 125% of that is 14.6A. Maybe BMW wanted a little extra safety margin.

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