I already have the Match 10dsp on order. I cannot afford to do the whole system at once, but I have decided to do the underseat 8s and front door speakers first. I am looking at the focal IS BMW 100KLs. They look like they will fit, but Focal's site does not show them as a direct PnP fit for the X5, does anybody know? Morels are another option for the doors. Also looking at the Helix Ci5s for underseat. Since I am splurging on the door speakers I will need to save a little money on the 8s. I have heard that the Ci5s sound good and will not break the bank. I would love to go for the Morel 8s, but the budget will only stretch so far. Most of these speakers I will not be able to hear first as the audio stores around me are pretty lame and dont carry these lines. I am looking for opinions of folks who have heard these speakers.
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I already have the Match 10dsp on order. I cannot afford to do the whole system at once, but I have decided to do the underseat 8s and front door speakers first. I am looking at the focal IS BMW 100KLs. They look like they will fit, but Focal's site does not show them as a direct PnP fit for the X5, does anybody know? Morels are another option for the doors. Also looking at the Helix Ci5s for underseat. Since I am splurging on the door speakers I will need to save a little money on the 8s. I have heard that the Ci5s sound good and will not break the bank. I would love to go for the Morel 8s, but the budget will only stretch so far. Most of these speakers I will not be able to hear first as the audio stores around me are pretty lame and dont carry these lines. I am looking for opinions of folks who have heard these speakers.
jetfixr wroteFocal IS BMW 100KL: interesting find.I have a brand new x5 rolling my way. One thing I am sure of is the audio system will need help. I am coming from a Suburban with 6x9s in the front doors and 6.5s in the rear doors so I have a hunch that 4 inch speakers are going to need to meet the 8 inch speakers under the seats and be well tuned to give me the nice full mid-bass sound that I am used to.
I already have the Match 10dsp on order. I cannot afford to do the whole system at once, but I have decided to do the underseat 8s and front door speakers first. I am looking at the focal IS BMW 100KLs. They look like they will fit, but Focal's site does not show them as a direct PnP fit for the X5, does anybody know? Morels are another option for the doors. Also looking at the Helix Ci5s for underseat. Since I am splurging on the door speakers I will need to save a little money on the 8s. I have heard that the Ci5s sound good and will not break the bank. I would love to go for the Morel 8s, but the budget will only stretch so far. Most of these speakers I will not be able to hear first as the audio stores around me are pretty lame and dont carry these lines. I am looking for opinions of folks who have heard these speakers.
I have not seen these before.
They look like great speakers. But depending on what you want to do, they seem to want a bit more power than the standard Focal IS BMW 100L speakers (without the "K").
Specs:
- Focal IS BMW 100KL / Sensitivity: 84dB / Power: 60WRMS-120WMax
- Focal IS BMW 100L / Sensitivity: 89.5dB / Power: 40WRMS-80WMax
Power output of the Match UP 10 - Channels A - H: 8 x 65 Watts (min. 3 Ohms). This is from AFs webpage.
So while the 100KLs seem like great speakers, the Match UP 10 might be a little underpowered for them. But I am not really a hardware guy...
Mounting: I have the 100Ls mounted in the front and rear in my 2022 G05. They fit perfectly. Specs:
https://media.focal-naim.com/dam/is-bmw-100l/ft_isbmw100l.pdf
On the specs sheet, the 100KL seems to have the same mounting sizes: 3 holes, on ø129.5 mm. So mounting-wise they seem the same. Specs:
https://media.focal-naim.com/dam/is-bmw-100kl/fp_isbmw100_kl_en.pdf
Underseats: I have the Match UP 8s... back then the Ci5s were not out yet. But there are quite a few people with Helix Ci5s. It seems that most are very happy with them.
Morel IRs... those would have been my first choice... I only read good things about them. But they are crazy expensive in Europe...
NealfromNZ has the Morel 8" Woofers in his car. Maybe he can tell you a few words on them.And yes... tuning will be key.
Tuning will be very important, if you want the system to sound great.
You need to properly adjust the Mids to the Woofers, Left and Right sides to each other...
The K2 Tweeter is nice snd detailed but they do need dialing in when paired with focal passive crossovers. They have a more “foward” sound compared with soft dome tweeters. I’m running k100es in my f80 and they are a great combo. I run the front tweeters active and they need very little eq correction. A tad more on the drivers side.
On the underseat choices 8s aren’t as effective as a trunk sub. A 10 inch will really nicely augment a BMW system. Choices like the helix ci5 ideally need a sub to fill out the very low bass region.
I run Morels . They can go lower than helix and are good to 25 hz. Bass frequency response is quite flat between 30 - 120hz which is quite amazing when compared to factory HK. But they are at there best running with highpass at 45hz an lowpass between 150 - 175hz depending on door speaker response. For acoustic bass the morels come into their own and can be run without a trunk sub. They have also plenty of punch with appropriate power.
Having said that value for money the helix ci5 would be hard to pass up. 6x9 and 8 inch speakers have similar cone area so bass should be similar.
Gbrnole wroteAs in compared to an 8 ohm speaker sensitivity ?Focal is being quite generous to themselves on their sensitivity ratings. i would consider either mid bass driver to be an 89 dB or 85 dB sensitivity, more like 86 dB and 82 dB in their usable frequency range. To Focal's credit they do at least provide the frequency plots which is a lot more than i can say for the other brands offering pnp kits.
Not seeing these down -3 or -7 db down in relatity but willing to understand / learn
If anything they produced very good spl for their size. Usable to 150hz with LR2. Settled on 175hz lr4 as good point to intergrate with morels.
Erin's audio corner channel on youtube does a great job of highlighting where manufacturers take liberties on specs. without doubt a buyer would buy the speaker that says it's 89.5 dB sensitivity over a speaker that says it's 87 dB but in reality that 87 dB speaker might actually be rated correctly.
Gbrnole wrotea speaker's sensitivity is reflective of it's performance through it's usable frequency range. take the 100L mid bass driver for example, Focal rates it as 89.5 dB sensitivity. it peaks at approximately that at ~150hz but the majority of the usable frequency range from 300hz to 6khz is 86 to 85 dB. it's a bit disingenuous to rate the speaker at 89.5 dB when the only point where it reaches that is arguably where it will perform at the very limits of its range.
Erin's audio corner channel on youtube does a great job of highlighting where manufacturers take liberties on specs. without doubt a buyer would buy the speaker that says it's 89.5 dB sensitivity over a speaker that says it's 87 dB but in reality that 87 dB speaker might actually be rated correctly.
Ok , I follow Erin too 😀
That frequency range that is more where you’d run a 3 inch driver 300-6000hz. These are closer to 4.5 inch drivers,
. To meet bmw underfloor location response you want the door speaker to be kicking in by at least 200 hz so crossed somewhere between 150 - 175hz. With those focal options the l series midbass Lpf would be about 4Khz and the k series 3.3 -3.5 kHz. K series are a bit more efficient so close to that 89db average. But the BMW install reality is the mids need quite a bit of eq correction to meet a target curve. Some large cuts needed above 500hz. It’s a bit of a sea-saw on the eq front.
NealfromNZ wroteGbrnole wroteagreed that the speakers will be high passed at ~160hz that will provide about 1 octave at ~88 dB average as measured. the other 4 octaves that this mid bass driver will be used in are pretty much dead nuts on 85 dB across that entire frequency range - certainly from 500hz to 4 khz.a speaker's sensitivity is reflective of it's performance through it's usable frequency range. take the 100L mid bass driver for example, Focal rates it as 89.5 dB sensitivity. it peaks at approximately that at ~150hz but the majority of the usable frequency range from 300hz to 6khz is 86 to 85 dB. it's a bit disingenuous to rate the speaker at 89.5 dB when the only point where it reaches that is arguably where it will perform at the very limits of its range.
Erin's audio corner channel on youtube does a great job of highlighting where manufacturers take liberties on specs. without doubt a buyer would buy the speaker that says it's 89.5 dB sensitivity over a speaker that says it's 87 dB but in reality that 87 dB speaker might actually be rated correctly.
Ok , I follow Erin too 😀
That frequency range that is more where you’d run a 3 inch driver 300-6000hz. These are closer to 4.5 inch drivers,
. To meet bmw underfloor location response you want the door speaker to be kicking in by at least 200 hz so crossed somewhere between 150 - 175hz. With those focal options the l series midbass Lpf would be about 4Khz and the k series 3.3 -3.5 kHz. K series are a bit more efficient so close to that 89db average. But the BMW install reality is the mids need quite a bit of eq correction to meet a target curve. Some large cuts needed above 500hz. It’s a bit of a sea-saw on the eq front.
both of those ratings are based on 0 degrees (on axis) testing. the speakers will be listened to off axis which further diminishes the sensitivity of the speaker. the K series speaker is less efficient than the L.
no matter what the Focal's are good to great speakers and i do appreciate Focal providing a frequency plot, most of their competition don't.
jetfixr wrotejust make sure the pricing is true apples for apples i.e. whether the price includes the necessary adapter harnesses and if the AF amp will need another module or not added to it.hey, thanks for all the input, all good stuff. I have been away from car audio for 15-20 years, but I am good getting a mic and taking a swing at tuning myself. Any reason to buy the alpha-one over the Audiotec Fischer which I can get for about $500 less?
the AF should be cheaper but not sure about $500 less unless you're getting a screamer of a deal!
jetfixr wroteThey fit perfectly. I installed a set of the Focal 100KL a few weeks ago. I mounted the passive crossover right behind the mid driver.I am looking at the focal IS BMW 100KLs. They look like they will fit, but Focal's site does not show them as a direct PnP fit for the X5, does anybody know?
jetfixr wroteIf you're going to do your own tuning AND you're good with making your own bracket then save the $500, that's what I did. I made a bracket to mount the 8DSP out of two cheap braces from Home Depot. I'll probably make a post on it. Bimmertech gives you a bracket and you get tune support which is worth it for people not wanting to mess around with it.hey, thanks for all the input, all good stuff. I have been away from car audio for 15-20 years, but I am good getting a mic and taking a swing at tuning myself. Any reason to buy the alpha-one over the Audiotec Fischer which I can get for about $500 less?
Rosetta Stoned wroteThey fit perfectly. I installed a set of the Focal 100KL a few weeks ago. I mounted the passive crossover right behind the mid driver.
Rosetta Stoned wrotealways useful to see the different methods used to mount aftermarket components. i'm currently pondering building an mount for my JL amp in the space between the battery and the power distribution block but keeping my LOC and DSP in the stock amp compartment.If you're going to do your own tuning AND you're good with making your own bracket then save the $500, that's what I did. I made a bracket to mount the 8DSP out of two cheap braces from Home Depot. I'll probably make a post on it. Bimmertech gives you a bracket and you get tune support which is worth it for people not wanting to mess around with it.
Gbrnole wroteT 2020 modular aluminium system can be a good way of making amp mounting bracket. Looking at using something like that system for a subwoofer amp mount.always useful to see the different methods used to mount aftermarket components. i'm currently pondering building an mount for my JL amp in the space between the battery and the power distribution block but keeping my LOC and DSP in the stock amp compartment.
Otherwise BMW amp brackets with rivnuts added works quite well. Used the factory amp bracket on my f80.
Thanks!
agomoll wroteI’m running the Focal es100ks in my F80 M3 doors with some 3d printed midbass adapters. These have the same focal TKM tweeter as in the KL series. The Tweeter has a very good level of detail which I would describe as slightly forward.Hi, I'm sorry if I missed the post elsewhere, but has anyone hooked up the Focal 100KLs to the Alpha One amp? It looks like the parameters of the powder needed for the speakers matches the output of the amp, but I'd still like to know people's thoughts on using the 100KLs vs the 100Ls. Also, are people using the Focall 100KLs in the front doors still using the 100Ls for the center and rear doors? I'll be using a JL Audio 12" sub in the back.
Thanks!
The es100k midbass has a nice level of detail and cone looks to be very similar to the KLs. Just a different motor assembly using neo magnets.
I’m also in the process of putting in an es100k and focal TKMX tweeter into the dash position. Just waiting on the midbass driver.
Speaker wise I run es100ks in doors and soon dash, morel 8s in underseat and and a no longer made Boston Acoustics SPL555 sub and passive radiator.
On the front doors I run an active setup which means tweeters are on own amplifier channels. The advantage with this mode is more granular control of crossover points and time alignment offset of nearside tweeter which further enchanes the sound stage from the drivers seat position.
Bass wise I have the morels crossed at 45 hz and the trunk sub is doing an acoustic cover to 55 ish hz. This gives a nice combo of very articulate bass and gets around the huge modal dip the trunk sub has at 60hz due to cabin gain.
Can’t comment on the Alhpa One but oem is Match which has a fully featured DSP with excellent features.
So on the KLs I can vouch for the TMK tweeters. Key is DSP control on the 10khz - 20 khz part if the spectrum as out of the box they run plenty of “air” when running focal passive crossovers.
