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7 hours agoLAST POST
06-13-2020
First things first..... the numbers. I am in Europe, so everything is measured in "metric" hp, and Neuton meters of torque. So I'll do the translation to US numbers as well.

Baseline dyno -536 hp / 826nM
US measurements - 529hp / 609 ft lb

After remap - 690 hp - 928nM
US measurements - 680hp / 685 ft lb

(EDIT) DISCLAIMER:
Numbers are in crank hp, just like the manufacturer advertises, and just like most modern tuners advertise as well. However, 690 "crank" hp equates to about 570 "wheel" hp. For those that are interested, that is about a 22% increase in performance on an otherwise stock vehicle. (Sorry.... I got trolled later in the thread, so I had to add this)

Secondly..... gotta give a HUGE shout to BR-Performance in Willobroek, Belgium. These guys were amazing. Walked me through the whole process, explained everything, step by step, even gave me a free shirt when I asked.

And.... when I inquired about adjusting the sport gauges to reflect the "new" horsepower levels..... they brought in a guy to do it..... no charge whatsoever. Turns out, at least as of "right now", they are not able to increase the hp levels on the OEM gauge over 640. Not sure why.... but I "assume" that is what the new X5Ms read perhaps? Hey.... I'll take it. Reading 640 is better that reading 550 from the factory. When I hammer it though..... it PINS the gauge at 640 and keeps pulling.

I hate when people "describe" what it feels like in words.... because it's pointless and subjective. I will say..... it was a beast before with 529hp. How do you think it feels with 151 more hp? It's insane. Absolutely insane.

But.... under "normal" driving..... it feels 100% stock. Sounds right, drives right, shifts right. My wife could drive my car, and she wouldn't notice any difference in how it drives..... unless she put her foot on the floor. Guys did a truly amazing job of tuning it.


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06-13-2020
Shout out to BR-Performance...... even the ashtrays are cool here
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06-13-2020
Re-map dyno.

Boom.
06-13-2020
And yes...... after today's amazing experience.... I don't mind giving BR-Performance a small shout-out. They earned it.
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06-13-2020
:cool!: Really looking forward how much power you have stock and how much you gain. I think BR claims 680hp after the tune ?

Love your build, cool car :thumsup:
06-13-2020
4BMWGarage wrote
:cool!: Really looking forward how much power you have stock and how much you gain. I think BR claims 680hp after the tune ?

Love your build, cool car :thumsup:
with aftermarket DPs?
06-13-2020
x5m50i wrote
with aftermarket DPs?
No..... bone stock minus the removal of the charcoal intake filters. I won't mess with the emissions system until I get back to the US..... because I'm not sure what will happen (inspection?) When I re-import. It depends on what state I end up back in, and I have no idea what state that is yet.
4BMWGarage wrote
:cool!: Really looking forward how much power you have stock and how much you gain. I think BR claims 680hp after the tune ?

Love your build, cool car :thumsup:
Thanks! I adjusted the original post to reflect everything.
06-13-2020
4BMWGarage wrote
:cool!: Really looking forward how much power you have stock and how much you gain. I think BR claims 680hp after the tune ?

Love your build, cool car :thumsup:
RK is showing dyno sheets of 640 AWHP. The numbers NineFourteener is posting are crank. In crank HP, that is about 790. That is a whole different level of power that RK is doing.
06-13-2020
Nine, the dyno sheets looks very smooth. Flat torque curve as well. It looks like they did a great job. Any specifics? Boost at peak torque and redline? Lots of timing during run? Etc?
06-13-2020
130FeetDeep wrote
Nine, the dyno sheets looks very smooth. Flat torque curve as well. It looks like they did a great job. Any specifics? Boost at peak torque and redline? Lots of timing during run? Etc?
Sorry.... I can turn a wrench.better than anyone I know..... but when it comes to specifics of tuning parameters and anything "computer related".... you might as well be speaking a different language.

I brought it to them...... they did their magic..... I get to enjoy it now that they are done .... lol

I'm supposed to get an email later with all the "official" stuff. Not sure what's in it.... but I'll post it up anyway
06-13-2020
130FeetDeep wrote
RK is showing dyno sheets of 640 AWHP. The numbers NineFourteener is posting are crank. In crank HP, that is about 790. That is a whole different level of power that RK is doing.
Yea.... not sure who RK is, but these folks do their calculations in crank hp, similar to the manufacturer.

640hp at the wheels would translate to roughly 775 at the crank. I'd have to assume this individual has at least fuel system upgrades, possibly catless downpipes as well.

Still.... 690 crank hp would equate to roughly 570 at the wheels. I'm pretty pleased with that on a 100% stock vehicle.
06-13-2020
Ninefourteener wrote
Yea.... not sure who RK is, but these folks do their calculations in crank hp, similar to the manufacturer.

640hp at the wheels would translate to roughly 775 at the crank. I'd have to assume this individual has at least fuel system upgrades, possibly catless downpipes as well.

Still.... 690 crank hp would equate to roughly 570 at the wheels. I'm pretty pleased with that on a 100% stock vehicle.
RK Tunes is a US tuning shop in the northeast. Jordan is their tuner. They ran intake, downpipes, and exhaust to get those numbers. This is DI, so no need for fuel system upgrades. I believe virtually all of the power gains are catless downpipes stacked round the tune. Virtually all the tuners believe the stock intake is sufficient with a better filter. Removing the charcoal seems wide as well, but no dyno to offer true insight yet.
06-13-2020
Ninefourteener wrote
Sorry.... I can turn a wrench.better than anyone I know..... but when it comes to specifics of tuning parameters and anything "computer related".... you might as well be speaking a different language.

I brought it to them...... they did their magic..... I get to enjoy it now that they are done .... lol

I'm supposed to get an email later with all the "official" stuff. Not sure what's in it.... but I'll post it up anyway
Haha. I get it man. Enjoy the awesome ride!
06-13-2020
130FeetDeep wrote
RK Tunes is a US tuning shop in the northeast. Jordan is their tuner. They ran intake, downpipes, and exhaust to get those numbers. This is DI, so no need for fuel system upgrades. I believe virtually all of the power gains are catless downpipes stacked round the tune. Virtually all the tuners believe the stock intake is sufficient with a better filter. Removing the charcoal seems wide as well, but no dyno to offer true insight yet.
Funny you mention the intake. I had the "K&N" discussion with the tuner, and he actually recommended NOT to buy them when they come available. He said that he's actually seen several instances where the oil in the filter was detrimental to the performance of the engine. Now.... I've read this before, so I've always been careful not to over-oil my filters, but he said these new high-end German cars have such well engineered intakes, that anything aftermarket generally yields virtually no gains.

I remember a long time ago trying to "grasp" all the different ways HP is measured, and my brain was fried. Crank vs. Wheel vs. All-wheel vs. Mustang dyno vs. Dynojet vs. Ambient air temp vs. Wheel diameter vs. wheel weight vs. Vehicle weight vs. Local altitude vs. Gear ratio.... I've even heard the "viscosity of the oil and transmission fluid" used as arguments.... LOL. It was exhausting.

Ultimately, it's the 0-60, 1/4 mile, and 1/2 mile times that mattered. I'm working on procuring an app I can use to measure those effectively. In the meantime, I have absolutely no doubt that all 3 of the above have been dramatically improved.

The "smile on face and butthole pucker factor" has been worth it for me.... lol
06-13-2020
Ninefourteener wrote
Funny you mention the intake. I had the "K&N" discussion with the tuner, and he actually recommended NOT to buy them when they come available. He said that he's actually seen several instances where the oil in the filter was detrimenting the performance of the engine. Now.... I've read this before, so I've always been careful not to over-oil my filters, but he said these new high-end German cars have such well engineered intakes, that anything aftermarket generally yields virtually no gains.

I remember a long time ago trying to "grasp" all the different ways HP is measured, and my brain was fried. Crank vs. Wheel vs. All-wheel vs. Mustang dyno vs. Dynojet vs. Ambient air temp vs. Wheel diameter vs. wheel weight vs. Vehicle weight vs. Local altitude vs. Gear ratio.... I've even heard the "viscosity of the oil and transmission fluid" used as arguments.... LOL. It was exhausting.

Ultimately, it's the 0-60, 1/4 mile, and 1/2 mile times that mattered. I'm working on procuring an app I can use to measure those effectively. In the meantime, I have absolutely no doubt that all 3 of the above have been dramatically improved.

The "smile on face and butthole pucker factor" has been worth it for me.... lol
The argument has always been that oiled filters can sling and mess up the MAF. That said, I have not seen many, if any, real world issues. BMC does dry filters too I think if some want to go that route. Either way, I have never had a MAF issue with oiled filters and I have modded everything including the kitchen sink. 😂

WHP matters because it is the only thing performance cares about. As they say, it isn’t what you engine makes, it’s what it can put to the ground. The difference is parasitic loss through your drivetrain. Each vehicle is different but generally the parasitic loss is larger in AWD. That makes that 640 AWHP all that more impressive. The N63B is putting down some sick numbers.
06-13-2020
I always cleaned my MAF every time I cleaned my filter, so I have never experienced any issues either. In the same respect though, why spend the money if I don't need to? I may look into a set of dry filters when/if they come available.

Gonna have to agree to disagree on the whp thing. I've always been more impressed with real-world track data than whp numbers, especially considering there are so many variables. If you're measuring "before" and "after" readings, I don't think it really matters whether you use chp or whp, as long as it's consistent.

Whp is great for internet comparisons.... but I'd much rather see 0-60 times. I'm hoping to bump into a Urus or a Trackhawk or an X5M one day at a drag strip one day :) lol.

536chp to 690chp is a 22% increase. I imagine that no matter what method is used for measurement, the 22% increase would remain consistent. No matter what type of dyno, no matter if measured at the wheels or the crank..... the "22%" would be consistent.

After all... the Demon is producing HUGE whp numbers, but consistently loses to less powerful cars in real world tests. Usually it's tire slippage, but it could be weight, parasitic drivetrain loss, etc. So many variables. I also think many tuning companies (Burger, Cobb, etc) are using chp now, to remain consistent with what the manufacturers have always used. I think it's less confusing.
06-13-2020
CHP is just to satisfy ego. That said, your feeling about percent increase is sound. I have been modding high performance cars for decades and whp is golden standard. Anyone that uses crank numbers just does it for marketing reasons. As you stated, percent increase is probably equally as valid.

I also agree real world performance trumps all. The 60-130 benchmark is a big one because it takes wheel spin generally out of the equation. Trap Speeds are also super important to assess car performance diver driver skill. Either way, that is a legit point. Grab a draggy and see what kind of 60-130 mph you are running and it should give you a sense of where you stand and how much of that power is making it to the ground.

One last thing, you do realize you are on rollers for your dyno right? That doesn’t measure crank hp. You would need to have your engine on a stand to measure crank hp. They are simply using some guesstimate on drivetrain loss to back calculate to crank.
06-13-2020
Whp was the standard 20 years ago..... when we didn't have computers to be able to successfully measure Hp. It had to be measured on a dyno. Prior to 2000, most manufacturers were just "guessing" at performance measurements, and many were wildly off.

Nowadays maps/tunes are sent via email and road-tested using gps tracking. A rolling dyno serves no other purpose than making sure the tune delivers the power smoothly. It has nothing to do with "ego". It also has nothing to do with posting a "bigger" number. I posted, what my tuner posted, which is consistent with what the manufacturer posts.

See how exhausting this is? If I had a quarter for every time I saw a thread about hp readings that got trolled into and endless "my method is better than your method" argument.... or "XYZ did this and that, which is way better than what you did"......well...... this tune would have been free. LOL

I won't argue the 35 years I've been doing this.... or my 13 restorations.... or my 2 cars that ended up in magazines with you either.

I'll just submit and say "you're right, I'm wrong, and I should be ashamed of myself for daring to post my experiences in a manner inconsistent with your personal measurement preferences".

I posted this because I felt it would interest other BMW enthusiasts on this forum, that may have an interest in doing the same thing..... and seeing similar performance gains. My "ego" was in check long before I ever bought this car. It's a good feeling.
06-13-2020
Ninefourteener wrote
130FeetDeep wrote
RK Tunes is a US tuning shop in the northeast. Jordan is their tuner. They ran intake, downpipes, and exhaust to get those numbers. This is DI, so no need for fuel system upgrades. I believe virtually all of the power gains are catless downpipes stacked round the tune. Virtually all the tuners believe the stock intake is sufficient with a better filter. Removing the charcoal seems wide as well, but no dyno to offer true insight yet.
Funny you mention the intake. I had the "K&N" discussion with the tuner, and he actually recommended NOT to buy them when they come available. He said that he's actually seen several instances where the oil in the filter was detrimental to the performance of the engine. Now.... I've read this before, so I've always been careful not to over-oil my filters, but he said these new high-end German cars have such well engineered intakes, that anything aftermarket generally yields virtually no gains.

I remember a long time ago trying to "grasp" all the different ways HP is measured, and my brain was fried. Crank vs. Wheel vs. All-wheel vs. Mustang dyno vs. Dynojet vs. Ambient air temp vs. Wheel diameter vs. wheel weight vs. Vehicle weight vs. Local altitude vs. Gear ratio.... I've even heard the "viscosity of the oil and transmission fluid" used as arguments.... LOL. It was exhausting.

Ultimately, it's the 0-60, 1/4 mile, and 1/2 mile times that mattered. I'm working on procuring an app I can use to measure those effectively. In the meantime, I have absolutely no doubt that all 3 of the above have been dramatically improved.

The "smile on face and butthole pucker factor" has been worth it for me.... lol
Hi 914,

Thanks for sharing!

I agree with you that the intakes themselves are well designed, and don't need to be modified or messed with. But, the stock filters are GARBAGE. Especially you M50i guys with the charcoal filters too. I've run K&N filters in quite a few cars including the G05 with no issues thus far. Hopefully they come up with a filter for the TU3 for you guys to run...
06-13-2020
Good gosh dude. That derailed.

I wasn’t in any way trying to turn anything negative here. We are just talking about different ways to say the same thing. I never thought it was a negative conversation. I am sorry if it was taken that way.

Personally I enjoy your willingness to share info on the forums. It helps a lot of people.
06-13-2020
JackB316 wrote
Hi 914,

Thanks for sharing!

I agree with you that the intakes themselves are well designed, and don't need to be modified or messed with. But, the stock filters are GARBAGE. Especially you M50i guys with the charcoal filters too. I've run K&N filters in quite a few cars including the G05 with no issues thus far. Hopefully they come up with a filter for the TU3 for you guys to run...
Thanks!

I removed the charcoal filters a couple weeks ago. Ironically, it was an "accident". I was fitment testing the K&Ns from a M550i to see of they fit. They didn't. That was actually when I discovered them though. I didn't even know they existed until then.

I saw them.... and I was like "yep.... those are gone". That whole experience however, is what made me bring it up with my tuner.

I've used K&Ns on at LEAST the last 20-25 vehicles I've owned, and I've also never had a problem with them. When my tuner suggested NOT to buy them, I was a bit taken back by it.

But it all fairness.... He has probably seen his fair share of pimply-faced 17 year olds..... roll in with a 1989 Honda Civic, with a K&N filter dripping in pink oil like a freshly used dish sponge... lol.
06-13-2020
Ninefourteener wrote
JackB316 wrote
Hi 914,

Thanks for sharing!

I agree with you that the intakes themselves are well designed, and don't need to be modified or messed with. But, the stock filters are GARBAGE. Especially you M50i guys with the charcoal filters too. I've run K&N filters in quite a few cars including the G05 with no issues thus far. Hopefully they come up with a filter for the TU3 for you guys to run...
Thanks!

I removed the charcoal filters a couple weeks ago. Ironically, it was an "accident". I was fitment testing the K&Ns from a M550i to see of they fit. They didn't. That was actually when I discovered them though. I didn't even know they existed until then.

I saw them.... and I was like "yep.... those are gone". That whole experience however, is what made me bring it up with my tuner.

I've used K&Ns on at LEAST the last 20-25 vehicles I've owned, and I've also never had a problem with them. When my tuner suggested NOT to buy them, I was a bit taken back by it.

But it all fairness.... He has probably seen his fair share of pimply-faced 17 year olds..... roll in with a 1989 Honda Civic, with a K&N filter dripping in pink oil like a freshly used dish sponge... lol.
Yeah, I remember you had ordered them and they didn't fit with the new style intakes for the TU3.

I got the same ones you got as I have a boring old 50i and they fit nicely.

You're probably right, a lot of guys oil them when they're new which isn't necessary at all. Personally, I'll be leaving them alone for atleast 30-40k miles. Brand new, they're already practically drenched in oil haha.

Mixed information everywhere, hard to know what to believe at this point!

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