Theruleslawyer wrote

Nothing wrong with liking what you like, including fairly raw sound. I'd probably be more in that camp if they had better speaker sizes. 4" mids and then moving to underwhelming 8" underseats is a... challenging setup. Most of my work was fighting the 4" to 8" transition.

I can tell you that BMW doesn't appear to do a 'house curve' perse. The input RTA shows a really basic cross over network. They did a sub sonic filter to protect the small 8" subs and then a real shallow rolloff on top. There is no input timing, nothing that looks like cabin correction EQ, etc. Not surprising since that stuff costs money.

You hit most of the worst parts of the setup from the sound of it though.

Theruleslawyer

Mag_Ice_DL wrote

Theruleslawyer, I agree about transition. What was your remedy for that?

mscot wrote

The door speakers are only 4"?

HyperSprite wrote

NOTE: I've attached my 2022 HiFi stock speakers "time-rta-set-names-075boost.afpx" file but please read below first and use at your own risk.

This is a cool thread

I had to wait till after my TG trip to connect the 8DSP amp + 1.7 patch cable I installed two weeks ago and have been running around with it disconnected.

I've been an amateur car audio enthusiast for decades but am new to DSP/ computer tuning and using more than an SPL meter and ears, so take anything and everything below with a grain of salt.

Some notes from my HiFi/stock speakers tune:

* Used DSP PC-Tool demo mode from the comfort of my desk, I copied the each wave file from DSP PC-Tool to separate USB sticks and named each file system the name of the file. This will show in the BMW Media menu when you plug it in. Having only one file per stick will loop the track forever.
* RTA is uncorrelated pink noise
* Input Signal is correlated pink noise

* Used hearing protection, sat in the passenger seat, laptop on center arm rest.

* To reach from the back of the cargo area, I needed a longer USB Mini cable to reach to the front of the car

* Used the recommended Dayton UMM-6 mic and downloaded the mic profile from Dayton, added it to the RTA, Extended Settings page.

* I used a stationary mic placed in the center of my head for everything because I just wanted to get something going and leaning software while moving a mic around my head felt like more than I needed to be doing.

Ended up with the following:
Amp Out - Speaker - Crossover settings from RTAing them and looking at speaker drop-off.
* Fronts real drop-off seemed to happen at 350ish but the subs fell off a lot at 300 so brought this down)
A: Front L Full - high pass 305/12db
B: Front R Full - high pass 305/12db
* Rears I'm playing with these settings, using the fader to see if I like it or not
C: Rear L Full - high pass 446/12db - low pass 2865/12db
D: Rear R Full - high pass 446/12db - low pass 2865/12db
E: Center Full - high pass 305/12db, FX, Center Processing, Real Center enabled, Clarity Xpander auto
F: Not used
G: Subwoofer L - high pass 40/12bd, low 300/12db
H: Subwoofer R - high pass 40/12bd, low 300/12db

* Doing time alignment required unchecking subs and disabled "rear channel"

* Ran through each speaker with RTA TuneEQ and added 0.50db of gain.

In the end it sounds clear and tight (if lacking real low end) with pop, rock and country. I may be back at this again tomorrow if after driving around some I find I don't like it.

I have some Bimmertech subs on the way and once they are in I'm going to spend more time with it.

Note: A dedicate sub is out of the question because I need every ounce of regular cargo space of my 45e and there's a gas tank where my spare tire would be.

Jaggopard wrote

Did you have time to check the bimmertech Subs. I am curious about your experience

dombi wrote

I've put together a guide on how to measure phase with UMIK-1.
You can find it here:
https://www.diymobileaudio.com/posts/6339448/

What is phase good for?

Just by doing EQ, Time alignment and levels, you may not have the correct response, still. Your speakers might (and probably are), still out of phase.

No matter what your EQ is, there will be frequency ranges, where your speakers will be out of phase. And that will effect the overall sound, response...

Fix the phase issues will improve the sound.

Ideally, you want to fix:
- phase for your Doors
- phase between the two Woofers (align them)
- phase in the crossover areas: Doors - Woofers AND Woofers - Sub

HyperSprite wrote

NOTE: I've attached my 2022 HiFi stock speakers "time-rta-set-names-075boost.afpx" file but please read below first and use at your own risk.

This is a cool thread

I had to wait till after my TG trip to connect the 8DSP amp + 1.7 patch cable I installed two weeks ago and have been running around with it disconnected.

I've been an amateur car audio enthusiast for decades but am new to DSP/ computer tuning and using more than an SPL meter and ears, so take anything and everything below with a grain of salt.

Some notes from my HiFi/stock speakers tune:

* Used DSP PC-Tool demo mode from the comfort of my desk, I copied the each wave file from DSP PC-Tool to separate USB sticks and named each file system the name of the file. This will show in the BMW Media menu when you plug it in. Having only one file per stick will loop the track forever.
* RTA is uncorrelated pink noise
* Input Signal is correlated pink noise

* Used hearing protection, sat in the passenger seat, laptop on center arm rest.

* To reach from the back of the cargo area, I needed a longer USB Mini cable to reach to the front of the car

* Used the recommended Dayton UMM-6 mic and downloaded the mic profile from Dayton, added it to the RTA, Extended Settings page.

* I used a stationary mic placed in the center of my head for everything because I just wanted to get something going and leaning software while moving a mic around my head felt like more than I needed to be doing.

Ended up with the following:
Amp Out - Speaker - Crossover settings from RTAing them and looking at speaker drop-off.
* Fronts real drop-off seemed to happen at 350ish but the subs fell off a lot at 300 so brought this down)
A: Front L Full - high pass 305/12db
B: Front R Full - high pass 305/12db
* Rears I'm playing with these settings, using the fader to see if I like it or not
C: Rear L Full - high pass 446/12db - low pass 2865/12db
D: Rear R Full - high pass 446/12db - low pass 2865/12db
E: Center Full - high pass 305/12db, FX, Center Processing, Real Center enabled, Clarity Xpander auto
F: Not used
G: Subwoofer L - high pass 40/12bd, low 300/12db
H: Subwoofer R - high pass 40/12bd, low 300/12db

* Doing time alignment required unchecking subs and disabled "rear channel"

* Ran through each speaker with RTA TuneEQ and added 0.50db of gain.

In the end it sounds clear and tight (if lacking real low end) with pop, rock and country. I may be back at this again tomorrow if after driving around some I find I don't like it.

I have some Bimmertech subs on the way and once they are in I'm going to spend more time with it.

Note: A dedicate sub is out of the question because I need every ounce of regular cargo space of my 45e and there's a gas tank where my spare tire would be.

Yesharvinder wrote

So I have some basic questions hoping someone can help.

I will be installing my Match 8DSP next week and would like to keep the process as simple as possible. I have downloaded some tunes from this very helpful forum and would like to try them first. I have the DSP PC Tool ready too.

Once I connect the DSP to laptop, what do I need to do to get the sample tunes to the DSP, if someone can outline the steps for me.
Also if I am doing these sample tunes, can I skip the whole RTA, time alignment, and other steps that have been described in this forum.

Thanks in advance

Theruleslawyer wrote

That’s great! I haven’t really attempted to conquer phases beyond flipping polarity. Though wouldn’t phase issues show up in your rta spectrum? Or are the bands too narrow?

Yesharvinder wrote

Help please. I am not sure what to do with this piece. It says Centre In.

Also the negative ground cable. Does that go to the native of battery. Please confirm. Brown to negative and blue to positive of battery ? Thank you

Yesharvinder wrote

Also I am unable to remove the battery terminal nut, I have loosened it as much as possible and it just keeps turning, how do I slide the ring if I am unable to remove the nut. Any help is appreciated

Theruleslawyer wrote

You don’t need the center plug.

For the battery ground i used the chassis attachment point to the left of it down in the battery well.

Yesharvinder wrote

Thanks, ands does the 12V go the battery or the red smaller box next to battery.

Theruleslawyer wrote

Just a lot of experimenting with the crossover. Its a trade off of localization and better mid bass. I ended up going higher on the crossover than I really wanted but its easier to stretch up in range. Id rather have the speaker naturally fill a frequency range than have to boost it in eq. Boosting adds distortion.

A sub made it easier as i could play a lot more with gain on the 8” without worrying about them distorting or over extending on the low end. What i would have given for. 6” mid instead…

Mag_Ice_DL wrote

I was experimented with XO's and shelf filters a lot. Always ended up with my initial feeling for my ears: less EQ -> better, more natural sound. Mids and highs seems to be more forgiving in this contexts. Thus, I ended up with some gap at around 150-160Hz.
I got to idea to try different door speakers. Was looking at Helix Ci3 and BLAM Relax. Due to various reasons ended up with BLAM Relax BM100. I was surprised that even raw (with no EQs at all) their sound was pleasing. These play louder (+5..+8dB) compared to HiFi stock ones. In the region of 150Hz these are +10dB. Attached is raw frequency response of the driver side mid + tweeter compared to stock ones.

Theruleslawyer wrote

Were you still on the stock hifi previously? I'd imagine it's probably worth looking for mids that extend as far as possible given the constraints. The Focals are pretty good on that end as well. I don't have a raw measurement for you but the tech sheet shows them pretty flat down to 100hz.

https://media.focal-naim.com/dam/is-bmw-100l/ft_isbmw100l.pdf

Theruleslawyer

Theruleslawyer wrote

That’s great! I haven’t really attempted to conquer phases beyond flipping polarity. Though wouldn’t phase issues show up in your rta spectrum? Or are the bands too narrow?