[randybobandy]

.

[SHARMAATL]

Yes I also went in for some recall, and they told me they'd upgrade my by 2 levels. After it was done, I'm running .70 as well.

Curiously, when I asked the SA why I couldn't just update OTA, she said it's equal parts BMW not having the proper infrastructure yet and also the length of time the updates take. She said each of my two updates may take up to 5 hours. I think there must have been some truth to that because I got a loaner and it took them all day to get it done.

[anuj452]

Thanks for pics

Does anyone know what issues are fixed in 2019.70 over 2019.59

Originally Posted by randybobandy

Just got my X5 back from the dealer after getting some of the recall work done. The latest update to iDrive was 07/2019.70, so hopefully it’ll help some of you with connectivity issues.

[imyb]

Do you know what version you were on prior to getting .70?

Originally Posted by SHARMAATL

Yes I also went in for some recall, and they told me they'd upgrade my by 2 levels. After it was done, I'm running .70 as well.

Curiously, when I asked the SA why I couldn't just update OTA, she said it's equal parts BMW not having the proper infrastructure yet and also the length of time the updates take. She said each of my two updates may take up to 5 hours. I think there must have been some truth to that because I got a loaner and it took them all day to get it done.

[claykin]

11/2019.xx will be available (to dealers) sometime next week.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by randybobandy

I I think 07/2019.70 would be a better bet. Your back up camera will become your front camera.

Are you saying the rear to drive camera issue that was introduced in 07/2019.5x has been resolved in 07/2019.70? In other words, when switching gears from reverse to drive the camera view now switches to the front when going into drive?

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by randybobandy

Oh no, I was stating that this newest update must be the most stable if they are already moving onto the next iteration. Given the recent track record, if they are going to introduce new features in the next run, I wouldn't hold my breath that it's going to be stable.

However, to answer your question, the software update did fix the CarPlay connectivity. As for the camera situation, whatever recall work they did fixed it. I would assume it is the software update, but there was 3 different bulletins addressed in the service paperwork.

The front camera issue seems to be resolved as a result of these fixes. I am just going to play it safe whenever new software comes out, as it seems even with the "coolest" features released or rumored...they aren't working correctly.

If anyone has any questions on the fixes or bugs...let me know and I can go out and try to see if they were fixed in the car. Those stupid Experience Modes still don't work. They are greyed out and giving me some BS about audio. Not the end of the world.

Excellent, thanks I appreciate the info. The recall was due to the brightness/contrast and not the handling so .70 in general must have taken care of that.

[wdlv]

Originally Posted by claykin

11/2019.xx will be available (to dealers) sometime next week.

Interesting to know. My car is in for service after the last recall .55 update, the high beam assist needs to be reinstalled but would be curious if they would update my software to the latest version. My X5 is a 2019.

[TurtleBoy]

Originally Posted by randybobandy

Wasn't the recall intended to address this as well as the switch to the front camera? If so, the 07/2019.70 may not have been the fix. Thanks in advance.

No, as I mentioned above, the recall had nothing to do with the camera handling it was only to prevent the brightness/contrast from being adjusted to wash out the picture.

https://www.motor1.com/news/375493/b...camera-recall/

[rmorin1249]

Can anyone recall any vehicle that has had so many software updates in such a short span of time? For those of us that are more than 50 miles from the nearest dealer this is a real PIA. I'm fed up. Come on BMWNA, OTA updates, please! If Musk can do it surely you can.

[claykin]

Originally Posted by rmorin1249

Can anyone recall any vehicle that has had so many software updates in such a short span of time? For those of us that are more than 50 miles from the nearest dealer this is a real PIA. I'm fed up. Come on BMWNA, OTA updates, please! If Musk can do it surely you can.

Not unusual for BMW to release iStep level updates every few weeks. I'd say it's more unusual for an entire 4 month period to elapse with no interim update released.

The difference is some iDrive7 vehicles now display more specifics. Before this, the only way to know which specific iStep was in your car would require use of esys or another ODB reader.

[gpitts]

Originally Posted by rmorin1249

Can anyone recall any vehicle that has had so many software updates in such a short span of time? For those of us that are more than 50 miles from the nearest dealer this is a real PIA. I'm fed up. Come on BMWNA, OTA updates, please! If Musk can do it surely you can.

I would say that my experience with the G05 is anything unlike prior BMW purchases. WAY more issues driving off the lot than prior models. Hence the firmware updates... BMW really rushed the G05. It needed more validation time without question.

[M a r t y]

Originally Posted by gpitts

I would say that my experience with the G05 is anything unlike prior BMW purchases. WAY more issues driving off the lot than prior models. Hence the firmware updates... BMW really rushed the G05. It needed more validation time without question.

Let me ask you this since you have had a history of BMW ownership. What would you say the % split is of issues if you put them into these two buckets?
1. Thought to be software related
2. Non software related (quality, hardware, electrical, workmanship)

[deadlion]

Originally Posted by rmorin1249

Can anyone recall any vehicle that has had so many software updates in such a short span of time?

Yes, our Tesla. After the major recent v10 update their were at least 2 additional minor updates required shortly thereafter. However, they are all OTA - WiFi or LTE.

For each, I get a notification of the update on my phone and launch them once I get home once the car connects to WiFi.

[claykin]

Originally Posted by Marty in Bgm

Let me ask you this since you have had a history of BMW ownership. What would you say the % split is of issues if you put them into these two buckets?
1. Thought to be software related
2. Non software related (quality, hardware, electrical, workmanship)

This is a good question.

Software issues become a multiple (or exponential) as auto OEM's rachet up the tech level in cars. My expectation is in the future all this automated driving stuff will be written and tested by a common group of OEM's, after standards are set. It's unaffordable and not sustainable to do it alone going forward. I fear BMW and others are learning hard lessons with this generation of hardware.

Or, another possibility is hardware improves so significantly that the software required, to glue it all together, will be far less complex than what auto OEM's deal with today. If 5G is to create a network where cars can communicate with each other in real time and adjust their movements based on other cars, then we'll need much more than the half hearted effort we're seeing today.

Regarding other G05 issues, to me it doesn't seem significantly different to other first year models. If you don't like to deal with issues, stop buying first year of a new model.

[LexxM3]

Originally Posted by Marty in Bgm

Let me ask you this since you have had a history of BMW ownership. What would you say the % split is of issues if you put them into these two buckets?
1. Thought to be software related
2. Non software related (quality, hardware, electrical, workmanship)

It's an interesting question because the customer & dealer service departments may be mislead as follows: some or maybe even most ECU replacements I've read about here were presented as a mechanical repair, but my 30 year engineering experience interpretation of most of those cases sounded like software/firmware/configuration/integration issues. But dealers are not equipped to deal with software bugs or software design defects of any complexity and are definitely not compensated to do any more software debugging or diagnostics than flashing software updates, so they end up replacing parts. Sometimes that doesn't work, but often it does as new ECUs will often be configured cleanly from factory and will often have updated firmware. As well, the act of resetting systems to stock resolves many many software bugs — it's quite a "tradition" now (how many times do you hear "reboot" in daily life now).

So in light of above theory, I would opine that G05 X5 is actually mechanically above average relative to older bimmers, but the software issues completely obliterate the observed system-level reliability achieved by the mechanics.

[gpitts]

Originally Posted by Marty in Bgm

Let me ask you this since you have had a history of BMW ownership. What would you say the % split is of issues if you put them into these two buckets?
1. Thought to be software related
2. Non software related (quality, hardware, electrical, workmanship)

For the G05, virtually all of my time in the shop has been related to items addressed by firmware. I say "virtually" because I can't discern whether the genesis of the campaigns affecting my vehicle began as firmware issues or were, in fact, design related hardware issues.

[claykin]

Originally Posted by LexxM3

It's an interesting question because the customer & dealer service departments may be mislead as follows: some or maybe even most ECU replacements I've read about here were presented as a mechanical repair, but my 30 year engineering experience interpretation of most of those cases sounded like software/firmware/configuration/integration issues. But dealers are not equipped to deal with software bugs or software design defects of any complexity and are definitely not compensated to do any more software debugging or diagnostics than flashing software updates, so they end up replacing parts. Sometimes that doesn't work, but often it does as new ECUs will often be configured cleanly from factory and will often have updated firmware. As well, the act of resetting systems to stock resolves many many software bugs — it's quite a "tradition" now (how many times do you hear "reboot" in daily life now).

So in light of above theory, I would opine that G05 X5 is actually mechanically above average relative to older bimmers, but the software issues completely obliterate the observed system-level reliability achieved by the mechanics.

It's highly unlikely dealers will advance beyond basic diagnostics and parts swappers. It's going to take BMW creating better tools for their distributors (BMWNA, in this case) and/or dealers to properly diagnose issues. In a few years it will be the norm for dealers to connect cars to remote diagnostic systems and have remote parties diagnose and approve (most) repairs. We're part of the way there, but not quite yet.

[wdlv]

I think the real issue is that BMW has cars running around with different versions of the software, 2019 with this 2020 with that. Just have everyone on the same version, it's more work to keep track of them all. I'm sure internally the vehicles are different by models and options but still…

[gpitts]

Originally Posted by wdlv

I think the real issue is that BMW has cars running around with different versions of the software, 2019 with this 2020 with that. Just have everyone on the same version, it's more work to keep track of them all. I'm sure internally the vehicles are different by models and options but still…

That is absolutely an issue for engineering support! The advantage of having every vehicle the same is that once you've solved a problem for one vehicle it is applicable to all other vehicles in the field. Multiple firmware revisions means many more permutations to deal with and to find corner-cases within. Lovely.

If I were in BMW's shoes, I would be spending energy on vehicle internal diagnostics so that the vehicle provides the service techs the information they need to get to root cause determination and repair, versus the "pray and spray" approach they are relegated to today...

[LexxM3]

Originally Posted by claykin

It's highly unlikely dealers will advance beyond basic diagnostics and parts swappers. It's going to take BMW creating better tools for their distributors (BMWNA, in this case) and/or dealers to properly diagnose issues. In a few years it will be the norm for dealers to connect cars to remote diagnostic systems and have remote parties diagnose and approve (most) repairs. We're part of the way there, but not quite yet.

"Diagnosing" software defects is not even slightly the same as diagnosing manufacturing or wear&tear issues, so I am not really sure what you mean. First thing BMW needs to do is start collecting actual software defect information from the field and the best (by many orders of magnitude) source of that is customers. To be sure, that's just the start of the right approach, nowhere near the end or only thing, but they don't even understand the basic starting point.

[claykin]

Originally Posted by LexxM3

"Diagnosing" software defects is not even slightly the same as diagnosing manufacturing or wear&tear issues, so I am not really sure what you mean. First thing BMW needs to do is start collecting actual software defect information from the field and the best (by many orders of magnitude) source of that is customers. To be sure, that's just the start of the right approach, nowhere near the end or only thing, but they don't even understand the basic starting point.

I believe you've misunderstood my comment. And I've worked in software development for 14+ years so I have a clue what I'm talking about (as you seem to as well)

No doubt BMW has been, and will continue to, collect software statistical data from the field. They do so every time your key is scan and you take your car in for service where they do an obd2 scan. Further newer vehicles have the ability to send predictive telematics reports to BMW for predictive analysis. I've personally experienced this on my 2017 G30 where I got a call from my dealer about a reported fault my car never reported to me.

BMW has a clue, however it seems they're (unfortunately) overestimating the talents of their software engineering teams. My guess is there's too many disconnected groups of engineers working on modules and gluing it all together is the real problem. Poor communication between dev teams.... And if they realize any of this, they need a far more thorough testing program.