[tooloud10]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

This is absolutely incorrect. I can clearly show for a stress or 150 miles in sport mode, eDrive mile = 0.

It will show EV miles as zero because the ICE is running so it doesn't count those as EV miles.

And I purposely test this. I even have a video pointing at the energy flow screen, and Edrive never engage. In fact, most highway cruising is in sport mode, eDrive is not involved at all.

You really have to put your right foot into it to get the EV to activate in Sport mode.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by tooloud10

You really have to put your right foot into it to get the EV to activate in Sport mode.

As to ice on => Edrive not being registered, I am not sure they is necessary the case. The true maybe the milage driven with both ice and Edrive is so small. It doesn’t even register to 0.1 miles. Also, I would assume the energy flow diagram will show. If even that isn’t shown, it didn’t happen.

This is exactly what I am saying. For all practical purpose, ice and Edrive are really very independent. Only when you put right foot down under specific situation, and the duration is very short. To estimate MPG or mil/kWh, this portion is small enough to ignore.

[cat3dual]

Originally Posted by cat3dual

Just completed my first roadtrip in the 50e.

Distance traveled: 344.8 miles
Gals of fuel used: 10.322
MPG: 33.4 (spot on with the car's calculation)
Battery % at start: 100%
Battery % at end: 8%
Estimated kWh used: 18.4
Electric cost: $2.23 (assuming 10% charging efficiency loss and 11 cents/kWh)

Driven entirely in the default Hybrid mode. Destination set in Nav so battery was sparingly used until remaining distance to go was within the electric-only range at which time the car used exclsuively electric and I arrived with an estimated 3 miles of remaining electric-only range.

Mostly 65-75 mph just cruising. No aggressive overtakes/passing. 600 ft overall drop in elevation. Half of the drive was in light to moderate rain. First half temp in the 50s. Second half in the 70s. Headwinds/tailwinds pretty much cancelled out.

I would imagine on longer drives where the electric-only portion is a smaller percentage of the total distance travelled, the MPG would be more reflective of a mostly B58 propulsion and settle-in somewhere around 29-30 mpg.

1,200 mile ICE break-in completed with this trip. So, looking forward to exceeding 4,500 rpm!

Just completed the return trip via a different route with gently undulating terrain and the 600 ft gradual increase in elevation. Temps started in low 80s and ended around 68. Negligible winds. THIS TIME, only started with 90% battery and cruising at ten to fifteen over at 70-85 mph. Half dozen full-throttle overtakes on 2-lane highways in sport mode (then back to Hybrid Mode). Frequent passing at higher speeds. Key to efficiency is having destination set in nav so the car automatically reserves and uses battery capacity at the best locations along route (like the little towns I passed through with 30-40 mph speed limits, stop lights and stop signs).

Distance traveled: 320.7 miles
Gals of fuel used (to return car to full tank): 9.609
MPG: 33.4
Battery % at start: 90%. (indicating 41 mi battery only)
Battery % at finish: 14% (indicating 5 mi battery only)
Estimated kWh used: 15.2
Electric cost: $1.84 (assuming 10% charging efficiency losses and 11 cents per kWh)

Applying eelnoraa 's formula I got:

Date: 11/04/2023
Total Miles Driven: 320.7
EV Miles: 28.9
ICE Miles: 291.8
MPG Gauge: 33.1
mile/kWh Gauge: 21.0
Gasoline Usage (Gal): 9.69
Electricity Usage (kWh): 15.3
Actual MPG: 30.1
Actual mile/kWh: 1.89

Synopsis: Even with a heavy foot, it's not hard to get 30 mpg on 300-350 mile (mostly highway) roadtrips with the 50e.

[eelnoraa]

Impressive. 50e ICE is definitely more efficient, both the TU2 engine and better gear ratio at 7th and 8th for highway cruise. For 45e to get 30mph would require a very delicate right food and probably travel at 65mph

[Guy Fleegman]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

Impressive. 50e ICE is definitely more efficient, both the TU2 engine and better gear ratio at 7th and 8th for highway cruise. For 45e to get 30mph would require a very delicate right food and probably travel at 65mph

The benefit of a full charge cannot be overstated. I took a 350-mile trip last week with 1500 ft gradual upgrade. 28.1 mpg with a full charge using native nav and adaptive drive mode. On the return yesterday I only managed 26 mpg even with the downgrade. But I started with a 50% charge.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by Guy Fleegman

The benefit of a full charge cannot be overstated. I took a 350-mile trip last week with 1500 ft gradual upgrade. 28.1 mpg with a full charge using native nav and adaptive drive mode. On the return yesterday I only managed 26 mpg even with the downgrade. But I started with a 50% charge.

We separated Edrive and ICE mile. So as along as ice does t need to charge HVB, it shouldn’t matter if HVB is 100% or 50% when started, right?

[bono]

For people who like to analyze things... ICE engine used on highway, electric in a local driving in North and SoCal.

[Danskir]

I’ve only had my x5 50e for a couple weeks and I’m fairly confused. My previous experience with a hybrid was a Camry non plugin where we would get around 50 mpg. That car would use the battery with the combustion for sustained higher mpg. My x5 50e has an estimated 50mpge but I’m trying to figure out how they came to this number. In hybrid mode, it automatically runs through electric and then goes to combustion. There’s only 40-50 miles electric and then it switches to combustion. I don’t see how adding 40-50 miles on top of the normal mileage would take it from around 30mpg to 50mpge. Also, it doesn’t seem very different to just using electric only mode and then switching to combustion only. What am I missing here?

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by bono

For people who like to analyze things... ICE engine used on highway, electric in a local driving in North and SoCal.

Using my estimation method, here is your number. ICE MPG and Edrive mi/kwH are inline with the rest

[tooloud10]

Originally Posted by Danskir

My x5 50e has an estimated 50mpge but I’m trying to figure out how they came to this number. In hybrid mode, it automatically runs through electric and then goes to combustion. There’s only 40-50 miles electric and then it switches to combustion. I don’t see how adding 40-50 miles on top of the normal mileage would take it from around 30mpg to 50mpge. Also, it doesn’t seem very different to just using electric only mode and then switching to combustion only. What am I missing here?

After using 'all' of the EV range, the X5 still operates as a regular hybrid vehicle--that is, there's still power that you're not able to 'see' that allows it to do this.

[rexus300]

Originally Posted by Danskir

I’ve only had my x5 50e for a couple weeks and I’m fairly confused. My previous experience with a hybrid was a Camry non plugin where we would get around 50 mpg. That car would use the battery with the combustion for sustained higher mpg. My x5 50e has an estimated 50mpge but I’m trying to figure out how they came to this number. In hybrid mode, it automatically runs through electric and then goes to combustion. There’s only 40-50 miles electric and then it switches to combustion. I don’t see how adding 40-50 miles on top of the normal mileage would take it from around 30mpg to 50mpge. Also, it doesn’t seem very different to just using electric only mode and then switching to combustion only. What am I missing here?

Good question. There is still enough residual battery when it says 0 miles that helps with the ICE so if the avg mpg for me when driving home from work and empty battery on the highway is around 28-30 mpg. But when averaging everything it comes out to 50 mpge for 90 miles round trip commute with charging everynight since the battery gives me 35 miles on the way to work with 10 miles left and when returning it uses about 10 miles with rest gas resulting in 1.5 gallons burned total for that day. At the end I get 850 miles on one tank of gas and charging everynight.

[eelnoraa]

After using 'all' of the EV range, the X5 still operates as a regular hybrid vehicle—that is, there's still power that you're not able to 'see' that allows it to do this.

Except 50e will do NOT 50MPG after all EV range is used up. Not even close. 45e is rated at 20MPG after EV range is used up. 50e should be a little more efficient, maybe 10% better/22MPG, which is already an optimistic estimation.

MPGe is based on 1gal of gasoline = 33.7kWh of electricity. 50e will do probably 2mi/kWh, making it 67.4MPGe. After that, it is all weighted average between eDrive and ICE. If you drive 100% Edrive, then you best case is 67.4MPGe with this assumption. If you charge once every 5000 miles, then you will get low 2xMPG

[Danskir]

Other than the “battery hold” mode, Is there any way to have it not run through all the electricity immediately to get better mpg? I was under the impression there would be a mode that would actually utilize both the electrical and combustion aspects together for better mpg rather than a “hybrid” mode that just uses one and then the other.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by Danskir

Other than the “battery hold” mode, Is there any way to have it not run through all the electricity immediately to get better mpg? I was under the impression there would be a mode that would actually utilize both the electrical and combustion aspects together for better mpg rather than a “hybrid” mode that just uses one and then the other.

When you use both ICE and Edrive, MPG has no meaning anymore, right? You are using two forms of energy to propel the car, why only look at MPG. If you drive 30 miles with eDrive, you MPG is infinite, but does it have any meaning?

[jad03060]

The 45e had a dedicated ADAPTIVE mode, that would make a determination based on your route, when it would be best to run the ICE, and would save some battery capacity for areas where it would be more efficient, like in a city or town. To achieve the full potential of that, you had to use a destination in the navigation system so that it knew your intended route, otherwise, the decisions would be limited and similar to what hybrid does. That dedicated mode is no longer in the 50e, but (my) assumption is that the updated logic performs that way on its own when in hybrid mode (the default), making a dedicated mode redundant. But, to achieve it, it still would need a destination. The goal was to just about run out of battery charge when you reached your destination, assuming that was the most efficient. On a shorter out and back, you'd have to make your home a destination, with your other point a waypoint.

More than a few people have reported about 28-mpg on their 45e's on longer trips without the opportunity to charge. Like any vehicle, the faster you drive, the higher the drag, the lower your MPG will be as will driving in stop and go (with a low battery) versus cruising on the interstate.

[tdlutz24]

Originally Posted by TexAg91

Great MPG, but you're saying you added 8 miles of EV range by leaving it in hold mode over your 400 mile trip? I thought hold mode just maintained the current battery state of charge? If I understand correctly, that's surprising -- sounds like hold mode is a recharge mode if the battery is depleted. That also means if you hadn't used the engine to recharge the PHEV battery to 20% (8miles/40 miles) you would have gotten even higher MPG.

I have found that once the battery is depleted in any mode, if you place it into HOLD, on average you can regenerate about 5 miles. The exception was leaving the Blueridge Parkway, going down the mtn for over 30+ miles, I picked up almost 20 miles.... (engine braking and coasting) That was wild!

[Flying Ace]

Eco Pro FTW:

140 mile one-way trip, 35 mpg, 59 miles on electric. Car is a 45e on a full charge and 20 inch wheels

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

Eco Pro FTW:

140 mile one-way trip, 35 mpg, 59 miles on electric. Car is a 45e on a full charge and 20 inch wheels

I am away from home, once i get to a PC, I will run the number.

A few comments.
1. one-way trip is usually not a good indication of car's efficiency, because terrain change can get involved. But it is always interesting to see data.

2. ICE MPG here is low. Because 42% of the miles are driven by Edrive, or 58% of the miles are driven by ICE. so ICE mpg is about 58% of 35MPG indicated in trip computer => 20.3MPG. This isn't high at all for the speed you are traveling

3. appy the same ratio, mi/kWh = 0.42 x 9.2 = 3.86mi/kWh. this is very highs

with this observation, if you allow me to make a wild guess of the route. High average speed indicate this is an interstate route. I think terrain up and down a mountain, grade is even a little steep. Uphill portion is ~80 miles. Here Hybrid Eco Pro will use ICE, thus the low ICE MPG. On the downhill portion, ICE is off. Miles driven get counted toward eDrive. Since is downhill, you are really coasting. HEP mode doesn't really do much regen. This explain the high mi/kWh. Let me know if I am way off.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

I am away from home, once i get to a PC, I will run the number.

A few comments.
1. one-way trip is usually not a good indication of car's efficiency, because terrain change can get involved. But it is always interesting to see data.

2. ICE MPG here is low. Because 42% of the miles are driven by Edrive, or 58% of the miles are driven by ICE. so ICE mpg is about 58% of 35MPG indicated in trip computer => 20.3MPG. This isn't high at all for the speed you are traveling

3. appy the same ratio, mi/kWh = 0.42 x 9.2 = 3.86mi/kWh. this is very highs

with this observation, if you allow me to make a wild guess of the route. High average speed indicate this is an interstate route. I think terrain up and down a mountain, grade is even a little steep. Uphill portion is ~80 miles. Here Hybrid Eco Pro will use ICE, thus the low ICE MPG. On the downhill portion, ICE is off. Miles driven get counted toward eDrive. Since is downhill, you are really coasting. HEP mode doesn't really do much regen. This explain the high mi/kWh. Let me know if I am way off.

Yes. All correct. This is from Big Sur to San Francisco via CA-1, 17, 85, US101. Most of the coasting is on CA-1.

Overall, the 35 mpg is still great considering the speed, and grades of the hills. And yes 20 mpg on ICE is typical, but I don't count it but use combined MPGs instead bc that's the effective MPGs with the electric and coasting assist.

In comparison between Eco Pro and Adaptive, Eco Pro is more efficient due to the coasting feature

[T3PO]

Originally Posted by Danskir

I’ve only had my x5 50e for a couple weeks and I’m fairly confused. My previous experience with a hybrid was a Camry non plugin where we would get around 50 mpg. That car would use the battery with the combustion for sustained higher mpg. My x5 50e has an estimated 50mpge but I’m trying to figure out how they came to this number. In hybrid mode, it automatically runs through electric and then goes to combustion. There’s only 40-50 miles electric and then it switches to combustion. I don’t see how adding 40-50 miles on top of the normal mileage would take it from around 30mpg to 50mpge. Also, it doesn’t seem very different to just using electric only mode and then switching to combustion only. What am I missing here?

This is my question as well. Can somebody tell me, on a flat sea level road trip, traveling 70-80 mph what would one expect to see for a combined mpg if you started with 100% charge and a full tank of gas? Are we talking 25 mpg, 30 mpg, 40 mpg, 50+mpg?

[aaaaaaaaaz]

Originally Posted by T3PO

This is my question as well. Can somebody tell me, on a flat sea level road trip, traveling 70-80 mph what would one expect to see for a combined mpg if you started with 100% charge and a full tank of gas? Are we talking 25 mpg, 30 mpg, 40 mpg, 50+mpg?

No, because it depends on how long you travel and what mode you are using.

If travelling 30miles with all electric mode you get infinite ♾️ mpg.

If travelling infinitely long with refuel only but not charging you will get somewhere around 28

If you only exhaust one tank of gas and one full battery you will likely see sth like 33

[T3PO]

Originally Posted by alanzyy

No, because it depends on how long you travel and what mode you are using.

If travelling 30miles with all electric mode you get infinite ♾️ mpg.

If travelling infinitely long with refuel only but not charging you will get somewhere around 28

If you only exhaust one tank of gas and one full battery you will likely see sth like 33

The bottom is what I wanted. So In theory a long road trip I will get ~33 mpg. While normal week to week driving I will get more because I can charge overnight and then swap between ev, hybrid and spirited driving. So a tank of gas, in theory, with normal day to day driving of less than 20 miles per day could last more than a month?