[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by JimVR4

I'll say BS. I've driven M&S year round on my awd Rav4 for many years and they have held up well in all conditions. Never a problem getting through chain control in Tahoe and never a problem with 100 degrees in San Jose. Granted the fitment is not low profile like my 22 inch M50i has

Originally Posted by G05xG30

I'm a little confused? I have winter tires for the winter. Why wouldn't they do well?

Yeah, sorry, I was pretty unclear there & jad03060 nailed it ... I was more referring to the fact that

(a.) M+S tires are gonna wear pretty fast >70 degrees F and,

(b.) Taking the shoreline exit off North 101 at 90 MPH in an M3 with M+S tires on an 80F day and hitting the green light so you can light 'em up on that big left uphill turn ... well, let's just say you shouldn't expect the same stability as you'd get with summer tires. The good news is, if you're running the Vreds they won't even squeal.

[jad03060]

The typical winter tire doesn't work as well on dry roads as an all-weather tire might, and an all-weather tire won't work as well in ice and snow...they each have their tradeoffs. Just like a summer tire can be lousy in the winter. But, a winter tire may not be anywhere near as bad in the warm, but may wear faster, so there is still a down-side.

Tires are nearly always a tradeoff...depends on what's most important, and what compromise(s) you're willing to accept. Personally, I'd take some increased wear on a winter tire in the summer. But, it may not have as good stopping or cornering capabilities...depends on how close to the edge you usually drive.

One has to know both his and his equipment's limitations for best results.

[john1200c]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

In that scenario M+S tires aren't gonna do well (arguably even a bit dangerous!) and one is probably better off with "all weather" tires like Nokian WRs or all-season if you really wanna be a stickler ... personally in that scenario I'd skip it for sure in the US.

Mine say M + S on them but also have a picture of a mountain with a snowflake in the middle. I assume these are ok for winter use even up in the mountains, do I have that right? Nokian Hippa R3 SUV....

[JimVR4]

Originally Posted by john1200c

Mine say M + S on them but also have a picture of a mountain with a snowflake in the middle. I assume these are ok for winter use even up in the mountains, do I have that right? Nokian Hippa R3 SUV....

M+S stands for mud and snow, so yes

[jad03060]

Any tires made after sometime in 2024 must have the mountain symbol with the snowflake inside to be considered legal as a winter tire. Prior to that, M+S suffices...IOW, depending on the age of the tire, it may or may not have the more modern symbol on it.

[Contach]

I have a 2022 BMW X5 M50....
These are the tires I have, they are listed as "performance", and don't say that they are specific for summer. Can I use these tires in the winter on snow/ice?

22" M Double-spoke bi-color wheels, style 742M with performance non run-flat tires

[iconoclast]

no. not for winter, snow or ice.

[jad03060]

A winter capable tire will have a mountain with a snowflake molded onto the sidewall of the tire (or, if it's old school it will say M+S). If it has neither, it is a summer only tire. BMW only sells summer performance tires in the 22" sizes as delivered. Finding 22" winter tires that will fit those rims is really tough, and industry highly recommends you do a minus sizing when fitting winter tires.

[CGG]

Originally Posted by jad03060

A winter capable tire will have a mountain with a snowflake molded onto the sidewall of the tire (or, if it's old school it will say M+S). If it has neither, it is a summer only tire. BMW only sells summer performance tires in the 22" sizes as delivered. Finding 22" winter tires that will fit those rims is really tough, and industry highly recommends you do a minus sizing when fitting winter tires.

Agree you need to look for the mountain with a snowflake symbol on the tire to make sure the tire is designed for winter use.

Should be clear, however, that M&S (mud and snow) are NOT necessarily winter tires. It is very misleading that M&S is a designation that is used for "All Season" tires. Lots of people reasonably think that M&S means the tires are good for winter. Not so, tires with the M&S can be "All Season" tires - not winter tires. Don't look for a M&S symbol if you want winter tires.

[jad03060]

Well, yes, a M+S tire is not necessarily a winter tire, but will be far superior to a summer performance tire in the winter! It's an indication that it can be run in the cold with some snow capabilities, whereas, a summer tire will be terrible in snow.

Personally, I look out for the worst case scenario in the winter, and an all-season tire won't get me home and up my steep driveway. Your situation can easily differ.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by jad03060

Well, yes, a M+S tire is not necessarily a winter tire, but will be far superior to a summer performance tire in the winter! It's an indication that it can be run in the cold with some snow capabilities, whereas, a summer tire will be terrible in snow.

Personally, I look out for the worst case scenario in the winter, and an all-season tire won't get me home and up my steep driveway. Your situation can easily differ.

Yup, this is the right answer - some of us look for winter tires with great dry performance, but won't turn into hockey pucks, and that's M+S.

If you're like Jad and want the best winters, then mountain symbol; but if you live in a region that gets occasional snows & ice but overall is mostly dry, and you like performance, then M+S is the way to go (e.g., Vred wintracs)

Personally I've mostly leaned M+S, but if I wanted full-on 'snow' tire then something like Nokian Hakkas; but I grew up in Minnesota and learned to drive a stick in rwd on ice so anything better than kmart tires feels like glue.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Just like jad03060 said, the problem is Summer tires turn into hockey pucks below 40F/4C! Seriously, it'll be like driving on hockey pucks and that's BEFORE you get into ice/snow conditions ... JUST DON'T.

So when you say "allowed" it's less of a warranty issue (but that too) and more of a safety kill-yourself-and/or-others-and-legal-trouble issue.

Given you look to be in Croatia, I can't be sure about their laws, but many EU countries (e.g., Switzerland, Germany, Austria) have legislation saying you must have severe weather tires as marked with this symbol:



In Germany for example the rule of thumb is von O bis O meaning from October-Easter you must run severe weather tires in cold/snow/mountain weather regions ... and the penalties for not running winters can be severe too:

* Police see your car without severe weather tires, 40-80 euro ticket
* You spin out & cause traffic or inconvenience, 80+ euro ticket & points
* A one-car accident = the above & you lose insurance & can't rent!
* An accident with other cars: all of the above & they confiscate your vehicle

Not sure how much of this applies in Croatia, but probably some ... and I can tell you for a fact that in Germany, Austria, & Switzerland they police & border patrol WILL check your tires and they target large wheel / performance cars.

EDIT: a quick search turned up the rules for Croatia

Winter equipment
On major roads, winter equipment is mandatory between 15 November and 15 April, regardless of weather conditions.
All motor vehicles (weighing less than 3.5 t) must use winter tyres (M+S) on all wheels, or summer tyres with minimum tread depth of 4 mm + have snow chains in the vehicle, ready to use on powered wheels.
Buses and heavy goods vehicles must use snow chains on powered wheels or winter tyres (M+S).
On other roads, winter tyres (M+S) (or snow chains) are mandatory in winter conditions, when the road is covered with snow or ice.
Busses and heavy goods vehicles must carry snow chains or have winter tyres (M&S) fitted on powered wheels.
Studded tyres are not allowed.

So, let me get this straight...in Europe, you're financially responsible and from risk standpoint uninsurable if you break a safety regulation that puts yourself, responders and other's at risk?!

Here in America that's communist progressive un-american bolshevik

[jad03060]

I lived in Germany for about a year and a half way back. They have a bunch of rules, that while I consider useful, would not go over well in the USA for example:
- if you see a car accident, you are REQUIRED to stop and provide assistance unless there's emergency responders already there. That's one reason why you're also REQUIRED to have a first aid kit and warning triangle in your vehicle (you're also held harmless in providing that aid for the most cases)
- if you leave valuables visible in the vehicle instead of locked up or at least covered in the rear (thus, the cargo cover on the X5), and they get stolen, you are partially liable with your insurance
- you need to keep the sidewalk in front clear and clean so it's not uncommon to see people sweeping and hosing it down
- recycling is not optional

Those were the things that affected me most while there. I don't know what the current situation is...this was decades ago.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by jad03060

I lived in Germany for about a year and a half way back. They have a bunch of rules, that while I consider useful, would not go over well in the USA for example:

The very best rule though, on Sundays, everybody shut the fuck up:

No power tools of any kind, no loud noises, no bullshit. Just go the to lake, get a weisswurst & lager and shut the fuck up.

[medialook]

Hi There. So I have fitted Pirelli Scorpion Winter to my G05 in following size (same size has my summer ones) :
275/35 R22 104V XL
315/30 R22 107V XL

Spoke with my colleague that works at the BMW dealer parts department and he advised that there is no 22'' winter tyres for BMW (no BMW homologation - need to have a star) and this size shouldn't be used as winter. If something will fail I might have a trouble with my car warranty.
So he suggesting 21'' winter ones which cost about £4k here in the UK - it is to late for me to do that and I dont want to have two sets of wheels.

So, just wanted to check if some of you had any trouble with the 22'' winter tyres? I hope not. Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks

[cscones]

Ignore the point about your warranty being void. The tires you use don’t void your warranty.

[iconoclast]

Originally Posted by medialook

Spoke with my colleague that works at the BMW dealer parts department and he advised that there is no 22'' winter tyres for BMW (no BMW homologation - need to have a star) and this size shouldn't be used as winter.

Not true in USA. You can purchase 22" winter tires through BMW dealership or the tire site. I have done this twice already and they will mount and balance as part of the purchase price if you complete the transaction through the site below. That being said they are all sold out and have been since end of October and no 22" are available through their network.

https://www.bmwtirecenters.com/

[medialook]

Originally Posted by iconoclast

Not true in USA. You can purchase 22" winter tires through BMW dealership or the tire site. I have done this twice already and they will mount and balance as part of the purchase price if you complete the transaction through the site below. That being said they are all sold out and have been since end of October and no 22" are available through their network.

https://www.bmwtirecenters.com/

Thanks. That's what i thought as i bought my 22" winter tyres after reading this thread. I would be more concerned if I would out run flats instead of non run flats as they are much harder tyres. But with the winter ones rubber is actually softer. I quite prefer it over the summer ones. Greetings from UK

[medialook]

Originally Posted by cscones

Ignore the point about your warranty being void. The tires you use don’t void your warranty.

Thanks. That's what I thought.

[jad03060]

The issue is, if you use a product, including a tire, that is not BMW authorized AND it causes an issue with the vehicle, like with a tire, a harmonic, or vibration, or excess noise, then, the warranty won't necessarily pay for the diagnosis or repair. If it doesn't cause any issues, no harm, no foul.

[iconoclast]

Originally Posted by medialook

Thanks. That's what i thought as i bought my 22" winter tyres after reading this thread. I would be more concerned if I would out run flats instead of non run flats as they are much harder tyres. But with the winter ones rubber is actually softer. I quite prefer it over the summer ones. Greetings from UK

Same; a few years back I had a set of RFT on a vehicle for winter and they were awful. I removed them and put a set of conventional tires on the same wheels on the same car and it was a completely different experience. The stiffened sidewalls really made it unpleasant in the winter and rear of the vehicle would kick out just slightly but enough to warrant a swap.

[medialook]

Originally Posted by jad03060

The issue is, if you use a product, including a tire, that is not BMW authorized AND it causes an issue with the vehicle, like with a tire, a harmonic, or vibration, or excess noise, then, the warranty won't necessarily pay for the diagnosis or repair. If it doesn't cause any issues, no harm, no foul.

Yes I got that. Luckily it drives very smooth. Pirelli Scorpions are quality tyres. I must say it drives even better than summer ones.