[akin67]

In Central NJ we are paying Jersey Central Power & Light about $0.14 - $0.15 per kWh. Doing some rough math, if the 50e can do about 40 miles per charge, and each full charge uses about 24kW (80% of 30kWh battery capacity), that translates to approximately $3.50 to travel 40 electric miles. I have an X5 40i and I average about 20mpg, so that electric range would typically utilize 2 gallons of premium fuel. I pay about $3.90 per gallon, so on gasoline that 40 miles would cost me about $7.80. Effectively driving, electric only reduces my fuel costs (on the electric only portion of my mileage) by about 55%. I drive about 10,000 miles per year and 60% of that is local driving (6,000 miles). Driving 6000 miles (at 20mpg), enables me to avoid approximately 300 gallons of gasoline. I save about $2.15 per gallon (gallon of gas $3.90 replaced by electricity equivalent which costs $1.75), yielding annual fuel savings of about $645. Now there are other factors that probably improve this a little more. I assumed that my combined average mileage is 20mpg. In reality local driving probably averages 15mpg and highway driving probably averages me closer to 25mpg so in reality the portion of driving replaced by electric use probably yields even more savings. Effectively my actual cost savings are probably closer to $700 - $750.

Not factoring in the environmental benefits, looking at this purely from a financial standpoint, if the 50e costs about $5000 more than a 40i, the payback ends up being about 7 years. Now if our brake use also decreases (by 50%) because of regenerative braking perhaps we save another $2000 in brake/rotor replacement costs per each 5 year period (or about $400 per year), that reduces the payback period to about 4.5 years. Not bad. You also get to drive a vehicle that provides an extra 100hp of power and an extra 100 lbft of torque.

[SwissBeemer]

You will also save a few $ compared to a 40i when driving in the city or stop/go a lot since the PHEV is a lot more efficient there.

[Chonkapotamus]

Originally Posted by jad03060

The big thing where a PHEV can shine is where your utility rates aren't sky high, your commute has at least some city driving, and is within the US norm so most, if not all of it can be done in electric mode. If you never plug it in, it's a waste. If your utility rates are really high, it can be more expensive if you don't give the environment any credit. If you have some solar cells at home, it can be really cheap travel. On a long road trip, use it as a pure ICE, but you'll still benefit from some of the hybrid boost from the EV motor...it's pretty efficient on cruise. It's much better than the pure ICE in the city at stop and go.

This is exactly my use case for my 45e. My electric rates are low at home and free at the office. I average less than 25 miles driving a day, with much of that in stop and go or under 40 mph. I'm averaging 82% electric usage over my first three months of ownership, and estimate I've gotten half my electricity for free. I've purchased a total of 16 gallons of gas during that period, 80% of which are still in the fuel tank.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by akin67

In Central NJ we are paying Jersey Central Power & Light about $0.14 - $0.15 per kWh. Doing some rough math, if the 50e can do about 40 miles per charge, and each full charge uses about 24kW (80% of 30kWh battery capacity), that translates to approximately $3.50 to travel 40 electric miles. I have an X5 40i and I average about 20mpg, so that electric range would typically utilize 2 gallons of premium fuel. I pay about $3.90 per gallon, so on gasoline that 40 miles would cost me about $7.80. Effectively driving, electric only reduces my fuel costs (on the electric only portion of my mileage) by about 55%. I drive about 10,000 miles per year and 60% of that is local driving (6,000 miles). Driving 6000 miles (at 20mpg), enables me to avoid approximately 300 gallons of gasoline. I save about $2.15 per gallon (gallon of gas $3.90 replaced by electricity equivalent which costs $1.75), yielding annual fuel savings of about $645. Now there are other factors that probably improve this a little more. I assumed that my combined average mileage is 20mpg. In reality local driving probably averages 15mpg and highway driving probably averages me closer to 25mpg so in reality the portion of driving replaced by electric use probably yields even more savings. Effectively my actual cost savings are probably closer to $700 - $750.

Not factoring in the environmental benefits, looking at this purely from a financial standpoint, if the 50e costs about $5000 more than a 40i, the payback ends up being about 7 years. Now if our brake use also decreases (by 50%) because of regenerative braking perhaps we save another $2000 in brake/rotor replacement costs per each 5 year period (or about $400 per year), that reduces the payback period to about 4.5 years. Not bad. You also get to drive a vehicle that provides an extra 100hp of power and an extra 100 lbft of torque.

Yep. That's the math I also provided here. The only major difference other than different utility rates, range and commute behavior is that my 45e qualified under all tax credits, combined with MSRP discount, I effectively paid $57k for my 45e. So my payback is not 7 years. The car is immediately and indefinitely cheaper to operate than a 40i.

https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1866591

[mnx5er]

Originally Posted by akin67

In Central NJ we are paying Jersey Central Power & Light about $0.14 - $0.15 per kWh. Doing some rough math, if the 50e can do about 40 miles per charge, and each full charge uses about 24kW (80% of 30kWh battery capacity), that translates to approximately $3.50 to travel 40 electric miles. I have an X5 40i and I average about 20mpg, so that electric range would typically utilize 2 gallons of premium fuel. I pay about $3.90 per gallon, so on gasoline that 40 miles would cost me about $7.80. Effectively driving, electric only reduces my fuel costs (on the electric only portion of my mileage) by about 55%. I drive about 10,000 miles per year and 60% of that is local driving (6,000 miles). Driving 6000 miles (at 20mpg), enables me to avoid approximately 300 gallons of gasoline. I save about $2.15 per gallon (gallon of gas $3.90 replaced by electricity equivalent which costs $1.75), yielding annual fuel savings of about $645. Now there are other factors that probably improve this a little more. I assumed that my combined average mileage is 20mpg. In reality local driving probably averages 15mpg and highway driving probably averages me closer to 25mpg so in reality the portion of driving replaced by electric use probably yields even more savings. Effectively my actual cost savings are probably closer to $700 - $750.

Not factoring in the environmental benefits, looking at this purely from a financial standpoint, if the 50e costs about $5000 more than a 40i, the payback ends up being about 7 years. Now if our brake use also decreases (by 50%) because of regenerative braking perhaps we save another $2000 in brake/rotor replacement costs per each 5 year period (or about $400 per year), that reduces the payback period to about 4.5 years. Not bad. You also get to drive a vehicle that provides an extra 100hp of power and an extra 100 lbft of torque.

Nice write up. Only other thing to consider it cold temps. The battery range decreases and cost per mile goes up. I have seen decreased battery range on the 45e starting at 55 degrees (minor) but they get larger as it gets colder. Get around freezing and the range drop can get close to 30 percent.

This is the #1 thing electric cars need to solve in my mind. Especially with electricity prices increasing.

[jad03060]

Many BEVs use a heat pump that can be 3x more efficient with power uses versus resistance heating (which it will typically also have as a backup, the same as with home units). My i3 had a heat pump. Preconditioning the vehicle when plugged in can help minimize the impact of heating the cabin entirely from the battery (well, it always comes from the battery, but while plugged in, it can be at least partially replenished while that's happening). A heat pump is a little more complex, and you'd still need the resistance heating backup, so the cost for a PHEV often doesn't justify the additional costs.

[Flying Ace]

I just did a 2nd road trip since this LA trip. It was between SF and sierra mountains. On the way up (with a full charge), I returned 28 MPGs. On the way down with a 40% charge, I returned 36 MPGs.

Overall, this is all within expected results as total distance was almost exactly 200 miles each way with about 15%-20% of that distance covered on EV. On the way down, notably, my mileage on EV was an amazing 40+ miles because I was able to benefit from regen and coasting. It wasn't until I ran into traffic when I completely ate away at my electric capacity. My best return down the mountain on a full charge has been 45 mpgs with no traffic.

I was able to charge at the house I stayed in. Went skiing, and the ski resort had its own chargers, but it was expensive. $3 fixed session fee + $0.38/kwh + idle charges. No thanks.

[eelnoraa]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

I just did a 2nd road trip since this LA trip. It was between SF and sierra mountains. On the way up (with a full charge), I returned 28 MPGs. On the way down with a 40% charge, I returned 36 MPGs.

Overall, this is all within expected results as total distance was almost exactly 200 miles each way with about 15%-20% of that distance covered on EV. On the way down, notably, my mileage on EV was an amazing 40+ miles because I was able to benefit from regen and coasting. It wasn't until I ran into traffic when I completely ate away at my electric capacity. My best return down the mountain on a full charge has been 45 mpgs with no traffic.

I was able to charge at the house I stayed in. Went skiing, and the ski resort had its own chargers, but it was expensive. $3 fixed session fee + $0.38/kwh + idle charges. No thanks.

may I ask what drive you do you use for this kind of road trip?

Yes, charging on this route is almost impossible.

[Guy Fleegman]

Originally Posted by Chonkapotamus

This is exactly my use case for my 45e. My electric rates are low at home and free at the office. I average less than 25 miles driving a day, with much of that in stop and go or under 40 mph. I'm averaging 82% electric usage over my first three months of ownership, and estimate I've gotten half my electricity for free. I've purchased a total of 16 gallons of gas during that period, 80% of which are still in the fuel tank.

I have similar conditions, although my electric percentage is about 95% in daily use.

Last week I topped off my fuel tank for the first time since August 1 of last year. Bottom line is I spent $30 on gasoline over 8 months.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by eelnoraa

may I ask what drive you do you use for this kind of road trip?

Yes, charging on this route is almost impossible.

Going down the mountain, I use Adaptive to allow Regen when coasting down. On flat, I run on Eco Pro, and climbing the mountain, I'm usually on adaptive.

On highway l, I always put the car in sport suspension level.

[Guy Fleegman]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

Going down the mountain, I use Adaptive to allow Regen when coasting down. On flat, I run on Eco Pro, and climbing the mountain, I'm usually on adaptive.

On highway l, I always put the car in sport suspension level.

I've never done that. None of my previous cars had a sports mode. What's the benefit on plain vanilla interstates?

[jad03060]

Sport mode, at least at some road speeds, will lower the suspension. In theory, that could lower your drag, and because it compresses the air springs some, makes their spring rate a bit steeper. Some may like it, some may not, and some won't be able to tell the difference!

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by Guy Fleegman

I've never done that. None of my previous cars had a sports mode. What's the benefit on plain vanilla interstates?

It lowers the height and I can feel the stiffer spring, which allows me to drive curves at higher speeds. My passengers are also used to slightly stiffer (sporty) rides, so they also don't get car sick.

I also like to think it helps a bit with aerodynamic drag

[Flying Ace]

Not in SoCal, but in Monterey area for the weekend. Had empty j1772 stalls for me at my hotel. $1/hr, which is a good rate. Decided to charge up to 5 hrs and 99% and passed on the last half hour of charge

[SwissBeemer]

Originally Posted by jad03060

Sport mode, at least at some road speeds, will lower the suspension. In theory, that could lower your drag, and because it compresses the air springs some, makes their spring rate a bit steeper. Some may like it, some may not, and some won't be able to tell the difference!

How does that work with the air springs? My understanding is that it would let air out of the springs as otherwise I don't really see how the car would lower? So sport mode would make the dampers stiffer, which would make the car feel stiffer, but the spring rate should be the same with just less travel left?

[MTVP]

I took my 45e on a cross-country trip. I did so on gas only and never gave a thought to my trip. As to planning my trip based on charging. I do all my in-town driving on electricity. My local rate for super off-peak charging is 0.07 cents between 11 pm and 6 am not including that nasty distribution fee. Seem to be close to $2.00 for the overnight charge. The moving target on the charge is between 33-44 miles. The latest update seemed to give me more range or it's much warmer out now. Vehile is parked in a heated garage.

[jad03060]

While lowering the pressure in the air spring does lower the vehicle, a smaller movement is a larger percentage, so the progressive rate is higher. IOW, what's left gets compressed more on a bump, which raises the pressure to keep it from bottoming out.