[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by ksavostin

I am saying that MPG it is not really accurate measurement for electric and mixed (gas+electric) driving. Because:
There is no gallons when you drive a car using electricity, it should be miles per KW/H.

it can't be ZERO DOLLARS because you spend money to buy and install a solar panel.

1) agree MPGe isn't accurate. the EPA is applying a familiar adage (per gallon) to EV tech. it simply translates to how many miles one would've traveled per gallon if the gas that's fueling the ICE were as efficient as the kW powering the electric motor over the same distance. most folks understand that because it's familiar, but it is 'apples vs oranges'. still, i set mine to kWh/100 miles.

2) it is ZERO DOLLARS for me. i didn't have to purchase the solar equipment.

[j1980mac]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

1) agree MPGe isn't accurate. the EPA is applying a familiar adage (per gallon) to EV tech. it simply translates to how many miles one would've traveled per gallon if the gas that's fueling the ICE were as efficient as the kW powering the electric motor over the same distance. most folks understand that because it's familiar. still, i set mine to kWh/100 miles.

2) it is ZERO DOLLARS for me. i didn't have to purchase the solar equipment.

Even if you did have to purchase the solar equipment, charging the PHEV is a small fraction of what solar can provide.

In this scenario, the benefits far outweigh a pure (ICE) M40i, or even an M50i for that matter.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by ksavostin

For such amount of money you spent on the panel I can run my X5 on gas in sport mode for around 20 years

Originally Posted by j1980mac

Even if you did have to purchase the solar equipment, charging the PHEV is a small fraction of what solar can provide.

i agree with you j1980mac, but ksavostin sees it like this: instead of spending $10000 on solar equipment, he'd rather spend $10000 to run his "X5 on gas in sport mode for around 20 years". he wants his money to give him something back immediately. that's a "cop out" response because he didn't have to pay to build the gas station or gasoline supply in the tanks.

it's also a short-sighted way to view things. i will agree that one can't really benefit from solar energy until the up-front equipment costs are paid off, but in those 20 years of him running on gas, the cost of both gas and electricity will increase (not to mention all that CO2 emission). one benefit of solar i'm privy to now is not relying on gas or the electric company to run my X5. still, solar isn't for everyone, but it annoys me when people denounce things generally when it just doesn't benefit them or they don't see the value in it. i say, "if it doesn't work for you, that's fine, just don't spoil the possibility it could work for someone else."

i mentioned it before: there are folks who treat their 45e as an ICE vehicle first and as an EV second, and there are folks who treat it the other way around. no matter which camp you're in, you're using less gas than a comparable ICE-only vehicle, so it's a win-win but YMMV (pun intended).

[jad03060]

My typical use is local where there really isn't a need or desire to be in sport mode (too much traffic, too many lights), so most of my traveling is in electric although I have it default to Adaptive mode. When I have needed to use the ICE, it is on longer trips without much opportunity to recharge the batteries, but on my one, 2000-mile trip, with a full load of people and luggage, I still averaged about 28-mpg, which, I thought was fine for a vehicle that had a gvw over three tons. I got back from that trip in mid-August, and in that time, I've used less than 10% of the tank that I refilled once home...so, that's now pushing four months. I do not miss regular trips to the gas station! Plugging it in when I get home is quick and easy.

[ksavostin]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

but ksavostin sees it like this: instead of spending $10000 on solar equipment, he'd rather spend $10000 to run his "X5 on gas in sport mode for around 20 years". he wants his money to give him something back immediately. that's a "cop out" response because he didn't have to pay to build the gas station or gasoline supply in the tanks.

I can't imagine to ride a such car exclusively on electric with radicicolous 17 seconds 0-60mph in order to save several hundred dollars a year on gas. I spent $90k on a fun driving car not to run it on "slow-boring mode".. I feel sorry about you, electric guys

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by ksavostin

I can't imagine to ride a such car exclusively on electric with radicicolous 17 seconds 0-60mph in order to save several hundred dollars a year on gas. I spent $90k on a fun driving car not to run it on "slow-boring mode".. I feel sorry about you, electric guys

Some of us electric guys have a GT3 for fun

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by ksavostin

I can't imagine to ride a such car exclusively on electric with radicicolous 17 seconds 0-60mph in order to save several hundred dollars a year on gas. I spent $90k on a fun driving car not to run it on "slow-boring mode".. I feel sorry about you, electric guys

some may say saving several hundred dollars a year on gas on a $90k car is their idea of fun. who are you to say it isn't? you really can't see there's two sides to every coin, can you? only a narcissist believes everyone should value what you value

why u so offended? have we ridiculed you for spending money on gas? No, but you ridicule us for spending money to support the electrical needs of this vehicle. nobody's throwing insults at you yet you scoff at us for spending our money differently than how you would. your use case is different so go Sport mode wild. nobody's stopping you. my daily commute doesn't allow me to redline in Sport mode. Electric mode fits my use case, but I didn't spend $90k to go granny mode either. I have the weekends to play. the 45e is a hybrid with great performance from both powertrains. there's value in both, so please stop negating the value that others find on the EV side just because you don't.

you said before, "I love my car…" that's BS. I don't recall you saying anything about how the EV side of your car has been positive for you. my beef with you is that you are so snarky to folks who see the value in the EV side of the 45e. i feel sorry for you that you don't.

[ksavostin]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

the 45e is a hybrid with great performance from both powertrains.

You gotta be kidding here, what is great about a performance in electric mode, 0-60mph 17seconds

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

I don't recall you saying anything about how the EV side of your car has been positive for you.

Not really positive experience, it is slow and boring even in a regular traffic. I feel ashamed when a grandma on her 1999 Subaru Outback is faster than me after the stop light, since I try to accelerate 5700LBS SUV on 100hp electric engine, oh and that saves me 0.06cent per mile driving in electric. Currently 95% of the time I run it in ICE, I see no reason to to suffer in order to save $50/month on gas and I don't really care about emission and such BS... The reason I bought 45e instead of 40i is EV Tax credit, I wish I had more money, I Would purchased M50i then..

[jad03060]

The way I look at it, while I don't try to save fuel, given my normal use case for a vehicle, I've found that running the ICE in my 45e most of the time is a total waste. I know it's there if I need it, and use it when it's needed, but don't mind the fact that I can save some money in the process. That's just more money for other things.

Someone that spends money just because they can, may want to reconsider what's important in their life! The guy with the most toys doesn't always actually win...

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by ksavostin

You gotta be kidding here, what is great about a performance in electric mode, 0-60mph 17seconds

you've got to be kidding! speed isn't the only 'performance' variable that's a great thing the 45e has to offer. because i can't go 60mph on my daily suburban commute, it's great that I haven't been to a gas station since August and my tank is still 81% full. this is great performance for a 3.5-ton PHEV! can you not see how there's a positive (fully Electric commute) when faced with a negative (inability to regularly engage the ICE)? I'm sorry, but you're done. you're done.

Originally Posted by ksavostin

The reason I bought 45e instead of 40i is EV Tax credit, I wish I had more money, I Would purchased M50i then..

i knew it. that explains it all. dude, I'd give you more money to buy an M50i so you wouldn't troll 45e threads.

and this guy said, "I love my car." LMFAO

Originally Posted by jad03060

The way I look at it, while I don't try to save fuel, given my normal use case for a vehicle, I've found that running the ICE in my 45e most of the time is a total waste. I know it's there if I need it, and use it when it's needed, but don't mind the fact that I can save some money in the process. That's just more money for other things.

exactly! why does ksavostin "feel sorry" and ridicule others for this experience?!

[ksavostin]

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

i knew it. that explains it all. this is another example of your mindset: take advantage of systems already in place rather than put up the money first and benefit later.

What is your mindset then? "I will buy a $70k performance 400hp SUV and run it on 100hp electric engine to save few dollars?",

Originally Posted by nZtiZia

and this guy said, "I love my car." LMFAO

Yep, for the money I spent on it, it worth 100%, despite I almost don't use EV. I treat this car as 40i with few disadvantages like heat from a battery not from an engine, a bit less cargo and leg room, but I think $7500 worth it. I know you two, guys, excited to squeeze extra few cents per mile you drive, but this is not why I purchased a such fun driving car.

[nZtiZia]

Originally Posted by ksavostin

What is your mindset then? "I will buy a $70k performance 400hp SUV and run it on 100hp electric engine to save few dollars?",

i don't know if you hear me, or you're just not listening to me. MY USE CASE DOESN'T TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE ICE; IT TAKES ADVANTAGE OF THE EV. any PHEV is allowed this luxury, even an $80k BMW SAV! the cost of recharging the battery use for my weekly commute is a mere fraction of what I would've spent on gas with an M50i. it's not just a "few dollars."

and don't forget, your Sport mode that you love so much? yeah, you can thank the electric motor for its full potential in that mode.

[kingmonkeyjr]

I'm unsure how $50/month in gas is saved. I'm saving $200/week in gas lol. That's another car payment. Granted I don't care but still it's a boatload. So $700/year is a bit low to be based off of.

[allinon72]

This discussion seems to be centered around an imaginary host of compromises with the 45e, when in fact there are none. You still get nearly 400hp, assisted with an electric motor that helps the car get off the line. The 0-60 on the 45e is ridiculous given the weight. Even if you buy the 45e over the 40i and have no intention of saving gas or taking it out of Sport mode, it still makes more sense.

[ksavostin]

Originally Posted by kingmonkeyjr

I'm unsure how $50/month in gas is saved. I'm saving $200/week in gas lol. That's another car payment. Granted I don't care but still it's a boatload. So $700/year is a bit low to be based off of.

1 mile to drive in sport mode cost me $0.17
1 mile to drive in electric mode cost me $0.11
I save $0.06 per mile to drive in EV.
I drive around 10,000miles a year, 833 miles/month.
So $0.06 * 833miles = $49.98/month

If you drive 40,000 miles/year, well.. good for you, most people don't drive like this. Or maybe electricity is very cheap in your location, again not everyone has it so cheap.
In my case there is a choice - to drive 100 horsepower electric X5 and save $50/month or to drive 300+ horsepower ICE X5 with much more fun with no saving.

[ksavostin]

Originally Posted by allinon72

Even if you buy the 45e over the 40i and have no intention of saving gas or taking it out of Sport mode, it still makes more sense.

If a person doesn't intend to save gas, rather than to save $7,500 what else in 45e should attract his attention?

[jad03060]

Originally Posted by ksavostin

If a person doesn't intend to save gas, rather than to save $7,500 what else in 45e should attract his attention?

It's quiet on the road, the torque from the start is smooth and seamless, and, depending on which test you read, it's faster than the 40i and more efficient.

[45e21]

Originally Posted by ksavostin

1 mile to drive in sport mode cost me $0.17
1 mile to drive in electric mode cost me $0.11
I save $0.06 per mile to drive in EV.
I drive around 10,000miles a year, 833 miles/month.
So $0.06 * 833miles = $49.98/month

If you drive 40,000 miles/year, well.. good for you, most people don't drive like this. Or maybe electricity is very cheap in your location, again not everyone has it so cheap.
In my case there is a choice - to drive 100 horsepower electric X5 and save $50/month or to drive 300+ horsepower ICE X5 with much more fun with no saving.

As you and nZtiZia have rightly pointed out, the use case for everyone is different. I get night charging rate of $0.08 per kWH that translates to $0.04/mile. So the difference for me is $0.13/mile. At 1,000 miles per month, the saving is $130/month. Over 5 years of financing, it works out to $7,800 which makes cheaper even without the federal tax rebate.

[kingmonkeyjr]

Originally Posted by ksavostin

1 mile to drive in sport mode cost me $0.17
1 mile to drive in electric mode cost me $0.11
I save $0.06 per mile to drive in EV.
I drive around 10,000miles a year, 833 miles/month.
So $0.06 * 833miles = $49.98/month

If you drive 40,000 miles/year, well.. good for you, most people don't drive like this. Or maybe electricity is very cheap in your location, again not everyone has it so cheap.
In my case there is a choice - to drive 100 horsepower electric X5 and save $50/month or to drive 300+ horsepower ICE X5 with much more fun with no saving.

Realistically I'd get 15-16 mpg city driving. So 30¢+/mile here in San Diego. When charging I get 2 miles/kWh… super off peak for me is 8¢/kWh. Numbers don't lie. 4¢ vs 30¢ for my driving. Longer trips sure averaging 28mpg as we go to Palm Springs twice per month to check on one of our business. Wife wants full electric as she's spending another 200/week in the X7 on gas. Solar is paid on our right might as well take advantage of all this in this crazy state of california. But hey just need to play their game and act like them for the time being or maybe for even longer.

[DennisPNW9]

The math in the previous posts haven't been accounting for electric miles earned by regeneration that are not paid for by charging the battery by plugging into a wall socket. I haven't driven my 45e for enough miles to estimate what percentage of miles are free, it likely greatly depends on the type of trips you take.
I wish BMW would provide more information so we can see what is going on (like real time battery state of charge and hp).

[Jagu]

Originally Posted by jad03060

The way I look at it, while I don't try to save fuel, given my normal use case for a vehicle, I've found that running the ICE in my 45e most of the time is a total waste. I know it's there if I need it, and use it when it's needed, but don't mind the fact that I can save some money in the process. That's just more money for other things.

Someone that spends money just because they can, may want to reconsider what's important in their life! The guy with the most toys doesn't always actually win...

It’s usually relative. They spend more because they have more. That’s the reason you are not on a Kia message board.

[Jpflo]

This is a silly debate.

My current DD is a '19 540i x. When I'm in slow traffic, or around town, I drive it in Eco Pro mode. Let's face it, sometimes driving is just getting from point A to point B. Might as well do it in the most fuel-efficient way possible.

When the road is open and the opportunity presents itself...do I put it in Sport or Sport Plus and really drive it? Hell yes.

That's what beautiful about these cars...they have multiple personalities that can each come to the fore in the right situation.

I can't wait to get my 45e and see what it can do. Given my use case...<10K miles/yr, work from home, I'm guessing at least 60% of my miles will be electric-only. Maybe $75/month in gas saved at current gas prices. Is that life-changing? No....but why not, given there are virtually no negative trade-offs as far as I can tell.

..my 2 cents.